Rioting in Baltimore...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

LFitA,

I've been in favor of drug legalization for more than a decade. It is a waste of time and effort. I think police oppose such efforts because so much of their power comes from drug enforcement.

[TerraPrime]

When you have people posting Freddie Gray's rap sheet in an attempt to tell people not to sympathize with him, and you combine it with the fact that said rap sheet is full of drug related arrests that are probably related to the Drug War, I find it hard not to be on the side of the protesters AND the looters. Violence isn't justified, but if it moves the dialogue forward, I will take it and I will feel no shame.

Yes. And it's so hard to convey that sense of deep-seated anger to some segments of the society, because by merely the act of being angry you're castigated.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

TP,

There's nothing wrong with justifiable anger. Has anyone said so? The problem is being angry then buring your neighbor's car of breaking into the local mom and pop grocery because you are angry. The actions are not justifiable because of the justifiable anger.

[Inigima]

So Scot, here's the $64,000 question: What should they do instead? Because neither peaceful protest nor waiting for shit to happen seem to be paying great dividends.

I don't like riots either but it's hard to blame people for being frustrated with the system.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Inigima,

Riots, in my ernest opinion will not help. Change to an intrenched bureacratic system like policing in a major city does not come quickly. My fear is that riots could reverse or lessen the pressure on police departments that has existed since Ferguson.

I recommend patience. If patience will not work I would say work to change the system itself and unfocused violence will not accomplish that much more difficult goal.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Patience? Another 400 years worth, mayhaps?

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Yes. And it's so hard to convey that sense of deep-seated anger to some segments of the society, because by merely the act of being angry you're castigated.

I'll never understand why it's so hard for people to understand the discontentment and the anger. I feel like it'd have to happen to the people behind the system before they got it.

[eyenon15]

What if it's only a minority of the people who support protesting the police that are violently rioting?

Just like people say "oh, it's only a very few police who do anything bad"

couldn't you just say, it's only a few people who are violently rioting

[TerraPrime]

It's already been covered. Please read the previous 2 pages, eyenon.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

LFitA,

Please don't put words in my mouth. No, not 400 years worth of patience. I didn't say that and I don't mean that. No more than you saying you have sympathy for the looters means you'd be cool with them burning your car or looting your home.

[TerraPrime]

LFitA,

Please don't put words in my mouth. No, not 400 years worth of patience. I didn't say that and I don't mean that. No more than you saying you have sympathy for the looters means you'd be cool with them buring your car or looting your home.

If not 400 years, then how long is "patient enough?" And after that point is reached, wherever that is, then what?

[Biglose]

Now, my VERY LARGE liberal bias said, "The police are doing it the right way; we saw what happened when police intervened in Ferguson; they made things much. much worse. The Chief is completely correct here; the police are showing incredible restraint. BY doing this the protests will NOT turn violent and will peacefully march on."

And then what happened?

I was wrong and FUCKING Fox News was 100% correct.

Unfortunatly prediction did not came up early or you could have mine:

The protests are very likely to turn violent no matter what the police does. (Outside of getting two police-officers out for every protester...)

It is the typicall fucked if you do, fucked if you don't kind of situation.

For the police it was much smarter to stay out of it.

For protesters(at least for those interested in the cause and not interested in looting) it was a very bad thing. Nothing drags attention away from a topic like burning grocery shops.

[Inigima]

Scot, please provide the timeframe you consider reasonable to wait for change, expressed in number of dead young black men.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

TP,

If not 400 years, then how long is "patient enough?" And after that point is reached, wherever that is, then what?

I don't know what would you propose that wouldn't get us all put on a "terrorist watch list"?

Inigima,

Please see above.

[SpaceChampion]

How drunk sports fans started the riot

[Theda Baratheon]

You have the privilege and the luxury to say things like ''patience'' though, Scot, as well meaning as you are. People are dying. Young black men, young black women, Hispanic people and other PoC are being murdered. We can wait for decades and hope attitudes change, and maybe they will. But how many people are gonna be murdered in that time.

[eyenon15]

Getting rid of the terrorist watch list would be great.

[Inigima]

Yeah, what Theda said is what I'm getting at. I'm aware that the glib question I posed has no answer. But you're asking people to wait for change that may or may not be forthcoming, and the real human cost of that is that people are being murdered by the institutions that are supposed to be protecting and serving them. It's not hard to see why people are saying "enough."

I'm not trying to tell you that riots are right or that they will improve the outcome. I'm trying to tell you that it's understandable that people feel they're out of options, and I'm trying to tell you that "riots" are not the whole story and that stopping riots doesn't address the root cause.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Theda,

What would you propose be done? Rioting will not change existing system it will only bring the full power of the State down on the rioters. What can be propsed that will prompt immediate and substantial change?

Inigima,

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm saying giving police an excuse to roll back proposed reforms seems like a bad plan to me. I'm also saying that the methods the rioters are employing will not achive their desired result. Further than that I cannot say.

[Inigima]

If we had the ability to provide simple two-paragraph solutions, Scot, this would be solved already. This isn't a simple problem with a simple solution. The solutions take a long time and have costs in money and political will that our country has not, historically, shown a readiness to pay.