Rhaenyra + Aegon = No Dance of the Dragons

[RagnarokKing]

So I am curious as other peoples opinions on this idea, being that if Viserys I had married Rhaenyra to Aegon II, then the Dance of Dragons would have never happened. So we know that because Viserys was unable to have a son that survived from his first wife, Viserys named Rhaenyra his heir, and later when he did have a son, three actually, with his second wife, he insisted upon Rhaenyra still being his heir. This is of course in defiance to all tradition and very recently set precedent, i.e. the Great Council. Yet this moron, doesn't seem to recognize the problems that this could cause, which were realized in the Dance of the Dragons.

However, in my opinion this could have easily been remedied by marrying Rhaenyra and Aegon. Now I know what you might say the Worldbook says they didn't really get along and Rhaenyra was around 10 years older than Aegon. However, there are plenty of people who don't get along when they are younger, who get along just fine when they have matured, and also it would be an arranged marriage, it happens. In regards to the age difference, Rhaenyra would still be fertile by the time Aegon would be, and also older men marry younger women all the time. Now back to Viserys, another reason he didn't marry them together was because Alicent and Ser Otto were pushing for such a marriage out of ambition for Aegon. To which I answer, "you politically inept idiot, have you never heard of compromise?" By making this compromise, Otto's and Alicents ambitions would have likely been sated, even if they weren't, Viserys could have shipped the happy (or not so happy) couple off to Dragonstone to be outside of Alicent's influence and to produce more Blood of the Dragon.

Then when Viserys died, Rhaenyra can ascend to the throne with Aegon as her King-consort, and who knows maybe Hand? Making the two rule jointly, similar to Jaehaerys and Alysanna, and then even if still don't get along any conflicts between to two would hopefully be restricted within the walls of the Red Keep, and not in the skies of Westeros. So what are your thoughts?

EDIT: I said Viserys had two sons with Alicent, they had three together.

[Connartist92]

Viserys I did want this, but Rhaenyra and Aegon disliked each other long before the Dance of the Dragons. Neither of them would have it, so Viserys I gave up on the idea. He wasn't strong-willed enough to force them into it, and they were too strong-willed to be swayed.

[RagnarokKing]

Viserys I did want this, but Rhaenyra and Aegon disliked each other long before the Dance of the Dragons. Neither of them would have it, so Viserys I gave up on the idea. He wasn't strong-willed enough to force them into it, and they were too strong-willed to be swayed.

Is this from The Princess and The Queen? Because I haven't read it yet. Otherwise I don't recall reading anything that would imply Viserys wanted to marry them. It is stated in the world book they didn't get along, but I mentioned that in my post. Also, Rhaenyra married Laenor, her first husband when she was 17, making Aegon 7. So honestly I don't put a whole lot of stock in "they didn't get along" at that point.

[Connartist92]

Is this from The Princess and The Queen? Because I haven't read it yet. Otherwise I don't recall reading anything that would imply Viserys wanted to marry them. It is stated in the world book they didn't get along, but I mentioned that in my post. Also, Rhaenyra married Laenor, her first husband when she was 17, making Aegon 7. So honestly I don't put a whole lot of stock in "they didn't get along" at that point.

I can't remember if it was that or the world book, but I think it was indeed from TPATQ

[The silver dragon]

one of then probably would have assassinated the other.

[RagnarokKing]

I can't remember if it was that or the world book, but I think it was indeed from TPATQ

Well if that is the case, I can understand a little bit. But I believe my point still stands. After all Viserys forced Rhaenyra to marry Laenor, so obviously he had to stones to do that. Also Aegon was seven at this time, so no adult interaction to really base such a decision off.

one of then probably would have assassinated the other.

Still a better solution than what happened, especially if they had produced heirs together first.

[Fire Eater]

There is still the issue of Daemon.

[RoamingRonin]

There is still the issue of Daemon.

And Aegon's mother. Too many players in this game, a war of somewhat seems inevitable.

[RagnarokKing]

There is still the issue of Daemon.

What issue do you think he would present? I mean the main reason he was an issue was the fact that he married Rhaenyra. In this scenario, what issue would he present? Killing Aegon? Fair enough, but besides that what is he going to do that is going to lead to the Dance?

And Aegon's mother. Too many players in this game, a war of somewhat seems inevitable.

Just because there are a lot of players doesn't mean war is inevitable. Also in regards to Alicent, this scenario would be a win for her. Yeah she might want Aegon to be the undisputed King, so she kills Rhaenyra, and then Aegon, or Aegon's heir with Rhaenyra is now king/queen, no Dance of the Dragons. Or she causes political tension between Aegon and Rhaenyra, i.e. tries to get Aegon to usurp Rhaenyra power/throne, yes maybe this could of course lead to war, or it could lead to tensions and conflicts isolated in the Red Keep as I said in the OP, or it could lead to Alicent and Ser Otto being banished from Kings Landing.

I am not saying the Dance most certainly would not have happened, what I am saying is that it most likely would not have happened.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Viserys I did want this, but Rhaenyra and Aegon disliked each other long before the Dance of the Dragons. Neither of them would have it, so Viserys I gave up on the idea. He wasn't strong-willed enough to force them into it, and they were too strong-willed to be swayed.

Wrong. Hellicent wanted it but Viserys denied it saying that Hellicent said that in order to make Aegon the king.

King-consort,

That would never been allowed to happen. If Aegon was her heir the only thing he could ever hope for it would be Prince consort.

Just because there are a lot of players doesn't mean war is inevitable.

The war was inevitable. Who would be the ruler and who would be the consort? How much power will the consort have? Whose friends would be at court? Who will decide about everything? Who would sit at the small counsil?

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

If I remember right, Aegon didn't want to become King at first. He was more or less talked into it by his Mother.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

If I remember right, Aegon didn't want to become King at first. He was more or less talked into it by his Mother.

Says the source who was in favor of the Greens.... Read The Rogue Prince, you'll see that Aegons feelings on the matter were quite different..

Also remember that tpatq was quite heavily edited..

[Lord Varys]

Such a match could perhaps averted the Dance but some sort of succession war would have come, I imagine. The elder line of the Targaryen-Velaryons was still pissed, and they had dragons. Daemon was ambitious, and a marriage between Rhaenyra and Aegon could have meant that wife and husband would have plotted against each other/fought for supremacy. Viserys I would not have changed the succession.

TWoIaF makes it clear that the siblings did not get along when the match came up, suggesting that Alicent/Otto and their family were stupid enough to poison the mind of young Aegon against Rhaenyra before they considered the possibility to marry the children to each other.

My guess is Otto and Alicent always wanted the Aegon-Helaena match especially since they expected Viserys to change the succession in favor of Aegon.

When Laenor and Harwin died my guess is that Alicent and Otto would have pushed for Rhaenyra-Aegon again because she was too powerful and well-established them but Rhaenyra acted first and married Daemon.

The Dance turned out to be a very specific war of succession but the roots go all the way back to 92 AC and the Great Council of 101 AC.

Oh, and by the way:

My guess is that Viserys considered his children by Alicent 'secondary class Targaryens' due to the fact that they inherited no Valyrian blood from their mother. Part of why he wanted Rhaenyra to succeed might have been the fact that her blood was purer - and this could also explain why he chose to marry her to Laenor Velaryon rather than the Prince of Dorne or another powerful lord/heir.

[aryagonnakill#2]

The simpler solution would have been to make Aegon kneel in front of Rhaenyra in front of everyone in Kings Landing.

[Lord Varys]

Well, I imagine stuff like that happened all the time. Rhaenyra was the chosen heir and the Greens never openly rebelled against Viserys, so Alicent and her family must have observed the courtesies in front of court and king.

And Otto and his family most certainly swore the oath of obeisance to Rhaenyra in 105 when she was made heir as Otto himself was one of the architects of that decree.

[IdoTheChoombi]

one of then probably would have assassinated the other.

the dance ended in both of them dead anyway, only one of them dying and no war sounds awesome to me :D

[Anath]

My guess is that Viserys considered his children by Alicent 'secondary class Targaryens' due to the fact that they inherited no Valyrian blood from their mother. Part of why he wanted Rhaenyra to succeed might have been the fact that her blood was purer - and this could also explain why he chose to marry her to Laenor Velaryon rather than the Prince of Dorne or another powerful lord/heir.

I'd add that that might have been one of the reasons why he didn't envision the Dance of Dragons ever taking place: just like he had been seen as a first class Targaryen to Rhaenys, partly to his more Valyrian blood, he might have never thought of anyone actually daring to challenge an almost pure Targaryen princess for the sake of a prince who only had half Valyrian blood. I've mentioned before that his love for Rhaenyra didn't stop him from proclaiming Baelon his heir. What was the only difference between Baelon and Aegon? Well, the first one was the son of Viserys' political but Targaryen-blooded wife. With all his patient waiting for Aemma to give him a son, I'd say that he wanted as pure Targaryen son and heir as possible. Once the choice was between a more Targaryen-blooded but female successor and a less Valyrian-blooded but male one, we saw how his preferences went.

I suppose he never considered the possibility of Alicent and Otto ever doing something more than pestering him.

To the topic at hand: such a match was impossible. First, Targaryens married extremely young - although poor Aemma's case looks extreme even by their standards - and Rhaenyra could hardly be expected to wait for Aegon to grow up. Second, I guess Alicent and Otto were so sure of their success that they started turning her children against Rhaenyra before it became clear that no, Viserys wouldn't lift a finger to change the succession. Third, the Velaryons had to be appeased.

And if such a marriage occurred, it would have been a disaster for reasons posters have already listed.

ETA: I'd even say that he might have rejected Laena Velaryon not only out of love for Alicent but because he didn't want to give the powerful Velaryons more power. Sure, his son by Laena would be purer Targaryen than his children with Alicent but I suppose Viserys saw Otto as safer choice. Someone who wouldn't try to gain too much power (boy, was he wrong!) . After all, he was the one who suggested that Rhaenyra inherit, right? Come to think of it, Viserys' statement that his Hand would not hector him sound like a mild version of Aerys' "I'll not marry my son to my servant's daughter." Of course, here the situation was reversed. Viserys felt that he had done his servant a great good by marrying his daughter, love or not, IMO.

[Lord Varys]

Anath,

your point about infant Baelon is interesting. But we have to keep in mind that Viserys had not yet proclaimed Rhaenyra his heir when he was still hoping for a son. Until Aemma gave him a son Rhaenyra was Heir Presumptive in his mind which is why he refused to make Daemon Prince of Dragonstone.

After Rhaenyra's formal installation as Princess of Dragonstone he could not go back and change that, even if Aemma had lived and given him a son later on or if he had married Laena and gotten a son from her. It is one thing to have a daughter as heir-in-waiting and another to publicly proclaim somebody your heir. Then you should better stick to it.

I guess it was a gradual process for Viserys to reach the conclusion that Rhaenyra should succeed him. But I imagine had Baelon lived he would have married her to him to set them up as another co-ruling couple.

[Anath]

Anath,

your point about infant Baelon is interesting. But we have to keep in mind that Viserys had not yet proclaimed Rhaenyra his heir when he was still hoping for a son. Until Aemma gave him a son Rhaenyra was Heir Presumptive in his mind which is why he refused to make Daemon Prince of Dragonstone.

After Rhaenyra's formal installation as Princess of Dragonstone he could not go back and change that, even if Aemma had lived and given him a son later on or if he had married Laena and gotten a son from her. It is one thing to have a daughter as heir-in-waiting and another to publicly proclaim somebody your heir. Then you should better stick to it.

I guess it was a gradual process for Viserys to reach the conclusion that Rhaenyra should succeed him. But I imagine had Baelon lived he would have married her to him to set them up as another co-ruling couple.

Lord Varys, that's what I meant about Baelon. Viserys wanted 1) as pure Valyrian as possible; 2) a child of his own body.

That was also my point about installing Rhaenyra as Princess of Dragonstone. I thought that happened only after Aemma's death? Viserys could have married Laena and proclaim her "pure" son his heir instead of making Rhaenyra his heir apparent but he didn't. By proclaiming Rhaenyra his heir he sent a clear message that whoever was born later - which happened to be Aegon - it was just tough luck and they'll have to suck it. The seat was already occupied. He was saving it for his potential sons with Aemma (by not proclaiming Rhaenyra) but not his sons with Alicent or whoever.

Looks like Otto and Alicent, or Alicent and Otto, depending on who was the more active one in the pair, didn't take it all that seriously.

Rhaenyra might have married Baelon and that would have been, I suppose, a far more peaceful marriage than the one she would have had with Aegon. But it would also have been free of the constant squibbles of who was the heir and who was the consort, and who was the man in the family, and who should have the supreme power.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

I am curious what people think might have happened had Prince Baelon survived, would Viserys still have married ALicent to further secure the succession?