Brian told us Everything we need to know

[R4W13Y]

In the books it was a spur of a moment sort of thing as he was enraged by learning the truth about Tysha. In the show he had no such motivation, so he just decided to take a huge risk of getting caught to have a one final chat with his dad (if Shae hadn't been in there in Show what would Tyrion had done anyways? Would he had just cold-bloodedly murdered his father?)

This is a good point, especially because on the show last night Tyrion said he killed him because he was fucking Shae. So, he risked capture after being freed to chat with his dad (not because he was incensed about Tysha), and only then, after seeing Shae in his bed, he decided to kill him.

[Valetudo]

It's good to know that GRRM is far more reasonable than many of his fans.

Prose and television have different strengths, different weaknesses, different requirements.

David and Dan and Bryan and HBO are trying to make the best television series that they can.

And over here I am trying to write the best novels that I can.

And yes, more and more, they differ. Two roads diverging in the dark of the woods, I suppose... but all of us are still intending that at the end we will arrive at the same place.

Where are you seeing in this quote (or in the complete GRRM post)some sort of praise or critic about the show?

He's just saying what we already knew: Books and show are different but will end at the same place.

It doesn't say anything about him being pleased or displeased about the changes, so I don't see that as proof of anything.

[JonSnowed]

Season 5 is weaker than it's predecessors in my view but the source material is also far weaker. To counter act the poor and over stretched source material D&D have killed off secondary characters who most likely won't be around too long in the next book and they've streamlined plots and merged characters to varying degrees of success. I would challenge anyone to suggest what else they could do at a top line.

That said, my main criticism of the show this year is the whole Dorne stuff and how it's so poor versus everything else.

[chambraigne]

Where are you seeing in this quote (or in the complete GRRM post)some sort of praise or critic about the show?

He's just saying what we already knew: Books and show are different but will end at the same place.

It doesn't say anything about him being pleased or displeased about the changes, so I don't see that as proof of anything.

It's in the latest blog post that I linked in the OP. He explicitly says that he's being barraged by e-mails about the divergence and doesn't want to read any more.

[ummester]

Where are you seeing in this quote (or in the complete GRRM post)some sort of praise or critic about the show?

He's just saying what we already knew: Books and show are different but will end at the same place.

It doesn't say anything about him being pleased or displeased about the changes, so I don't see that as proof of anything.

Can you read?

Prose and television have different strengths, different weaknesses, different requirements.

David and Dan and Bryan and HBO are trying to make the best television series that they can.

GRRM is writing that they are trying to do the best job they can, as he is trying to do the best job he can. If he was displeased (and honest) he would write that he didn't think they were doing a good job with his complicated books.

[Tharvot]

Those of you upset about the divergence of the books and show, consider Brienne's comments in E05 while she and Pod sit and watch Littlefinger and Sansa go through Moat Cailin.

Pod: How do we get through there?

Brienne: We don't. We go around.

Pod: It's miles out of the way. We'll lose sight of them.

Brienne: Doesn't matter. I know where they're going.

D&D are not following GRRM through the Moat Cailin of strict book adherence. They can't. The books are too complex, too fraught with the danger of becoming the Meereen of television while they explore every subplot and every minor character just to kill them off two weeks later. They're going around, and while they might lose sight of the books as they take their detour, it doesn't matter. They know where they're going.

And if you don't want to take their word for it, take GRRM's. If you consider him the authentic voice of the series, then take him at his word when he says it's tiresome to hear people constantly complaining about their divergence in his latest post, http://grrm.livejournal.com/427713.html.

I like the analogy.

[David Selig]

Trying and succeeding are very different things.

And besides, best can mean different things. for hacks like D&D it's all about the ratings and writing for the lowest common denominator.

[Valetudo]

Can you read?

Prose and television have different strengths, different weaknesses, different requirements.

David and Dan and Bryan and HBO are trying to make the best television series that they can.

GRRM is writing that they are trying to do the best job they can, as he is trying to do the best job he can. If he was displeased (and honest) he would write that he didn't think they were doing a good job with his complicated books.

Can you think? (I'm not into personal attacks, but maybe you'll understand better that way)

doing the best job they can is not the same thing as doing a good job.

Do you remember the part about GRRM telling that he didn't like writers that complained after selling the rights to adapt their books?

So, guess why he didn't say that he was displeased. (I'm not telling he is, just saying that he wouldn't say it even if he was.)

The GRRM post is neither praise nor critic.

[chambraigne]

Can you think? (I'm not into personal attacks, but maybe you'll understand better that way)

doing the best job they can is not the same thing as doing a good job.

Do you remember the part about GRRM telling that he didn't like writers that complained after selling the rights to adapt their books?

So, guess why he didn't say that he was displeased. (I'm not telling he is, just saying that he wouldn't say it even if he was.)

The GRRM post is neither praise nor critic.

I won't stoop to your level and say "can you read?" But I will ask if you have bothered to read the whole post. If you had, you would have noticed, "There has seldom been any TV series as faithful to its source material"

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

I think they are doing what all show creators do when they turn a book into a show. They merge characters and edit parts and make up shit to explain their character merges. They just don't do a very good job of it a lot of the time.

[Valetudo]

I won't stoop to your level and say "can you read?" But I will ask if you have bothered to read the whole post. If you had, you would have noticed, "There has seldom been any TV series as faithful to its source material"

By saying Can you read, you would be falling into Unmester level (he's the one who used it against me as you would have understood if you read the post I was responding to).

Yes, the show as been faithful to it's source material, and until last season, it was certainly one of the best shows on television. But again, that doesn't mean he agrees with the changes.

[ummester]

Can you think? (I'm not into personal attacks, but maybe you'll understand better that way)

doing the best job they can is not the same thing as doing a good job.

Do you remember the part about GRRM telling that he didn't like writers that complained after selling the rights to adapt their books?

So, guess why he didn't say that he was displeased. (I'm not telling he is, just saying that he wouldn't say it even if he was.)

The GRRM post is neither praise nor critic.

He phrases what D&D are doing exactly the same as he phrases what he is doing, the best they can. So, if GRRM means that D&D aren't doing a good job, it also infers that he isn't.

Besides, if GRRM thinks they are not doing a good job and is genuinely displeased, he is a liar - regardless of how he feels about writers that complain.

So, I'd rather take it on face, and think that GRRM is not lying, or trying to hide what he really thinks and is just posting what he is - that he and D&D are doing the best jobs they can.

[Ser Michael P]

He phrases what D&D are doing exactly the same as he phrases what he is doing, the best they can. So, if GRRM means that D&D aren't doing a good job, it also infers that he isn't.

Besides, if GRRM thinks they are not doing a good job and is genuinely displeased, he is a liar - regardless of how he feels about writers that complain.

So, I'd rather take it on face, and think that GRRM is not lying, or trying to hide what he really thinks and is just posting what he is - that he and D&D are doing the best jobs they can.

Err, no.

He's not equating quality. Someone, anyone, with a superior talent can produce at higher levels with less effort than an inferior talent with maximum effort.

I can't sing worth a shit, but I can theoretically match a professional's effort. Your argument is flawed.

[Prince of the North]

I won't stoop to your level and say "can you read?" But I will ask if you have bothered to read the whole post. If you had, you would have noticed, "There has seldom been any TV series as faithful to its source material"

I've seen several attempts today to use this phrase, out of context, to prop up the contention that Martin is praising the show. Here is the whole sentence from his Not A Blog post today so that everyone can decide for themselves if he's praising the show or not.

There has seldom been any TV series as faithful to its source material, by and large (if you doubt that, talk to the Harry Dresden fans, or readers of the Sookie Stackhouse novels, or the fans of the original WALKING DEAD comic books)... but the longer the show goes on, the bigger the butterflies become.

[ummester]

Err, no.

He's not equating quality. Someone, anyone, with a superior talent can produce at higher levels with less effort than an inferior talent with maximum effort.

I can't sing worth a shit, but I can theoretically match a professional's effort. Your argument is flawed.

Who has more writing talent out of GRRM and D&D will always be at the whim of a fan's opinion, so any argument on it is pointless.

GRRM choose D&D to adapt his work and now he says they are doing the best they can. Taking GRRMs quote as truthful, if the best D&D can do is substandard and GRRM is aware of this, than GRRM choosing them to adapt his work was a mistake on GRRMs behalf, not D&Ds. There is nothing open to opinion about that.

Like I said, I don't think that it is the case - I think GRRM is well aware that his saga is complicated and unfinished and that, given the circumstances and medium with which they are working, he thinks D&D have the talent to adapt his work and are doing the best they can. If this is not what GRRM thinks, in the interests of honesty, he should disclose what he does think - ie 'I regret choosing D&D to adapt my work now, because they are not addressing finer points of my saga' or something similar.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

Who has more writing talent out of GRRM and D&D will always be at the whim of a fan's opinion, so any argument on it is pointless.

GRRM choose D&D to adapt his work and now he says they are doing the best they can. Now, taking that GRRM is being truthful, if the best D&D can do is substandard, than GRRM choosing them to adapt his work was a mistake on GRRMs behalf, not D&Ds. There is nothing open to opinion about that.

Like I said, I don't think that it is the case - I think GRRM is well aware that his saga is complicated and unfinished and that, given the circumstances and medium with which they are working, he thinks D&D have the talent to adapt his work and are doing the best they can. If this is not what GRRM thinks, in the interests of honesty, he should disclose what he does think - ie 'I regret choosing D&D to adapt my work now, because they are not addressing finer points of my saga' or something similar.

If he thinks the series is shit he wouldn't say it, he is getting a check.

[chambraigne]

I've seen several attempts today to use this phrase, out of context, to prop up the contention that Martin is praising the show. Here is the whole sentence from his Not A Blog post today so that everyone can decide for themselves if he's praising the show or not.

The reason that I didn't quote the whole sentence is that it doesn't make sense out of context. The entire post basically says "Quit e-mailing me about how much you don't like the TV adaptation."

[Valetudo]

GRRM choose D&D to adapt his work and now he says they are doing the best they can. Taking GRRMs quote as truthful, if the best D&D can do is substandard and GRRM is aware of this, than GRRM choosing them to adapt his work was a mistake on GRRMs behalf, not D&Ds. There is nothing open to opinion about that.

Yes, GRRM is responsible because he didn't have the power to foresee in 2007 that two guys who seemed interested in the books and seemed to understand them (as was proved by their good first seasons), would make substantial changes to the show in the 5th season! Shame on him!

[Natalia Borgia]

Who has more writing talent out of GRRM and D&D will always be at the whim of a fan's opinion, so any argument on it is pointless.

GRRM choose D&D to adapt his work and now he says they are doing the best they can. Taking GRRMs quote as truthful, if the best D&D can do is substandard and GRRM is aware of this, than GRRM choosing them to adapt his work was a mistake on GRRMs behalf, not D&Ds. There is nothing open to opinion about that.

Like I said, I don't think that it is the case - I think GRRM is well aware that his saga is complicated and unfinished and that, given the circumstances and medium with which they are working, he thinks D&D have the talent to adapt his work and are doing the best they can. If this is not what GRRM thinks, in the interests of honesty, he should disclose what he does think - ie 'I regret choosing D&D to adapt my work now, because they are not addressing finer points of my saga' or something similar.

Didn't they approach him? I wonder if GRRM thought the show would be a commercial success? Not like the books were mainstream before the show.

[Natalia Borgia]

Who has more writing talent out of GRRM and D&D will always be at the whim of a fan's opinion, so any argument on it is pointless.

GRRM choose D&D to adapt his work and now he says they are doing the best they can. Taking GRRMs quote as truthful, if the best D&D can do is substandard and GRRM is aware of this, than GRRM choosing them to adapt his work was a mistake on GRRMs behalf, not D&Ds. There is nothing open to opinion about that.

Like I said, I don't think that it is the case - I think GRRM is well aware that his saga is complicated and unfinished and that, given the circumstances and medium with which they are working, he thinks D&D have the talent to adapt his work and are doing the best they can. If this is not what GRRM thinks, in the interests of honesty, he should disclose what he does think - ie 'I regret choosing D&D to adapt my work now, because they are not addressing finer points of my saga' or something similar.

I don't know if he thinks they have talent....