[Book Spoilers] How many of the readers will continue watching this show after Season 5?

[Arya442]

That sums up the problem with your argument really. If you don't want any changes from the books then you might as well just read the books again.

Personally I definitely won't be stopping. It's still brilliantly entertaining if increasingly resorting to cliches. The acting's top notch and it's the second best adaptation of a book I've seen (after Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas).

My attitude is more like "I hate SOME of the changes." Others I actually like, and then there are others that I just don't really mind.

[RoamingRonin]

I want you to explain that to me. I can understand some people liking the show, even with it's cardboard characters, but why don't you trust the books?

1. Some people have an issue with this episode because of "the scene". Not because of the logistics behind it -- the plot, the motivations, etc. -- but simply because of the sexual violence. Re-reads have opened my eyes to the fact that GRRM handles sexual violence in a much more reprehensible way. IMHO, the Mercy chapter is far worse than what went on last episode and there has been little discussion about it. A Podcast of Ice and Fire had negative remarks about it but I can't recall much discussion about it here (maybe I'm just looking at the wrong sub-forums). There's a lot of criticism about Tommen being sexualized but that sort of thing is prominent in the books but GRRM hides behind the label of "realism". I would like to make a thread on it but I noticed similar topics are locked almost immediately.

That's not to say people shouldn't criticize the show if they aren't criticizing Martin. But how can this scene upset the fandom but when there's so much needless rape and description of rape in the actual books? Why is every sex scene in the books, for lack of a better word, questionable? People hail Arianne for being sexually liberated but she sells herself to Arys for his loyalty. Asha and Qarl play out a rape fantasy. I don't like it.

I didn't finish the Wise Man's Fear for similar reasons. But I didn't have much invested in that mess of a series so it was easy to set aside.

2. The quality. The long delays. GRRM's attitude about it all. Perhaps the saying "familiarity breeds contempt" is fitting here because I've noticed a certain formula in this chapters that make re-reads a pain (this parody of a Davos chapter is what I'm talking about).

3. I'm just not invested in the characters. As much as I argue for Dany, if she died, I can't imagine I'd be all enraged or sad about it like I was for Robb and Catelyn. To quote Film Critic Hulk:

THE WHOLE “PEOPLE = HORRIBLE” HYPOTHESIS LOST ALL NARRATIVE EFFECT. MARTIN PROVED IT. AND ULTIMATELY IT JUST MAKE HULK FEEL EITHER TIRED AND UNSEEMLY. THE WORST REACTION HULK CAN HAVE = TO READ SOME HORRIBLE STUFF AND JUST SHRUG. BUT THAT WHAT MARTIN DO. THERE NO HINT OF META-UNDERSTANDING TO VIOLENCE AND SEX . THIS NOT A CLOCKWORK ORANGE TREATMENT. IT A COMPULSION.

(he writes like he's the Hulk but he manages to sum up my feelings better than I could in plain english...)

The TV series ain't perfect and the sex is gratuitous but most of it consensual and between adults so it's an easier pill to swallow.

[Four-Eyed Raven]

We knew it was going to heavily deviate from the books. We know even more drastic things are going to happen in the show that completely go against the book plotlines. As much as it pains me, and as much as I have a hard time separating the books from the show, I will continue to watch simply because I want to see how awful and inaccurate it gets. I still have a shred of interest in a few plotlines in the show, no matter how inaccurate or poorly acted or poorly written it is. Part of the rage I feel while watching at this point is entertaining to myself, in a way.

Unless they kill off LITERALLY every main character, I will continue to watch. If they were to kill Tyrion or Arya or Cersei or something completely out of left field and a pure betrayal of the books, I would probably stop watching. Or let the next season run and then binge watch once it's over.

The best part about the travesty of this season is reading the rage on these boards. I feel so much less alone since my friends haven't read the books and can't feel my pain.

[acosta]

I just don't like bad storylines, whether they're faithful adaptation of other bad storylines or departures from better storylines. Sometimes that means I don't like parts of the show and sometimes that means I don't like parts of the books, but overall, the world and the sum total of all stories and the extent to which I've invested in the characters makes me come back. Although, I did tell myself after A Dance with Dragons that if Jon is actually dead, I'll stop reading. I'm getting a little tired of every character you invest hope in being betrayed and murdered. By chance alone, the good guy should win more often than never.

[CornCornSnow]

Not sure if she is a book reader--

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/19/democratic_senator_claire_mccaskill_gives_up_on_game_of_thrones_over_gratuitous_rape_scene/

[Arplus Elisjay]

I am not a fan of how seasons 4 and 5 have played out, but its not a knock against the show so much as ::cringing in anticipation of wrath:: a knock against ASOIAF too. AFFC and ADWD are slow books. The fact that the two battles got pushed out of ADWD really slowed down the development of the story, and the show is suffering for it. I am not a show apologist, but I'm not a show hater either. Both show and source material are suffering from a lull between the Red Wedding and the shit that hits the fan when Stannis meets Winterfell AND the Battle of Meereen.

PS: Writer's note - it appears that search is down and I'm only on once a day so if there's another 8 pages of posts by this time tomorrow I probably won't see your reply.

[Tagganaro]

I am not a fan of how seasons 4 and 5 have played out, but its not a knock against the show so much as ::cringing in anticipation of wrath:: a knock against ASOIAF too. AFFC and ADWD are slow books. The fact that the two battles got pushed out of ADWD really slowed down the development of the story, and the show is suffering for it. I am not a show apologist, but I'm not a show hater either. Both show and source material are suffering from a lull between the Red Wedding and the shit that hits the fan when Stannis meets Winterfell AND the Battle of Meereen.

PS: Writer's note - it appears that search is down and I'm only on once a day so if there's another 8 pages of posts by this time tomorrow I probably won't see your reply.

There shouldn't be any "wrath" to that comment lol. Books 4 and 5 are a mess, no matter how you feel about them. To have to split characters and then leave out the climax of several plot threads in the 5th book...there is no other way to say they are a mess and should have been edited down.

My "knock" with the show comes with some of the stuff they've chosen to cut (i.e. Manderley and Mance in particular) juxtaposed to some of the stuff they've decided to add (everything in Dorne, Grey Worm/Missandei). It was alwasy gonna be tough to adapt those books, but I have problems with the choices they have made.

[Ser Sinister]

I will continue to watch, even though I don't want the books to be spoiled by the show. Starting next season, the show will mostly be on its own. I'm curious to know if the show creators have a rough outline of the character arcs or simply the endpoints for the characters and the major story lines? If it's the latter, then a bulk portion of the next two seasons will be creations from the minds of the show creators. Even then, it's still exciting to see books you care about transition (and transition somewhat successfully, even with the missteps) to the screen.

It won't mean I won't continue to criticize when I feel it's necessary, but starting next season, it will have to be more of a criticism of the show itself, because we'll have no idea whether or not they are being faithful in their adaptation.

[CornCornSnow]

A lot of people think that books 4 and 5 weren't the best, and I tend to agree. However, even if GRRM stretched AFfC/ADwD out into, say, four books instead of two, I still would have bought and read them all. ASoIaF isn't really that long for its genre--Sword of Shannara, Wheel of Time, etc. It's something fantasy fans expect, and fantasy writers provide. I want to linger in a world--GRRM books are not airport books like The DaVinci Code. I'm bored with the show, but not with the books.

[Robb_Warged]

Book reader here. Done with the show. Depending on what happens with Sansa having to roleplay daddy/daughter nonsense with Baelish in TWOW, I may be done with the books too

[ummester]

The Grey Bedding, or whatever it should be called, was a beautifully shot moment of sadness for the North and consistent with the overall darkness that this story is embracing en route to the conclusion.

The more people that make a fuss about it being upsetting or whatever in the media, the more people will want to watch it. There is no such thing as bad hype. The issue will be that most people will watch it and go, 'Is that it? I don't get what all the fuss was about.'

[Daenerys_Is_Coming]

I am going to continue to watch, but it took me about two weeks (after Ser Barristan Badass' ridiculous death) to come to terms with the fact that I will never see my beloved book version of GOT on the small screen. Just this last week I had to sit with my unsullied friends and explain to them what a sad bastardization the Sand Snake's attempt to capture Myrcella was from the book version. In my mind, I still se Ser Oakheart charging across the desert sand in the moonlight.... what a beautiful scene that could have been. BUT just like accepting a death in the family, I have grieved the loss of my beloved book adaptation.

My Seven Stages of Grief:

1. SHOCK & DENIAL - Oh no you didn't f**king just kill the baddest knight on the Seven Kingdoms right before his storyline got good!!!!!! He can't be dead. No way. Next week I'm sure he'll be back. :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:

2. PAIN & GUILT - It huuuuuurts. Oh it huuuurts so bad. Why does Dorne look like a cold Irish Island? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

3. ANGER & BARGAINING - That's it. I'm done watching the show. If all the show readers boycott it, we can take a stand! F**k D&D, we will take them down. I'm going to start a campaign. Maybe if I email them they'll bring Barry back? Yeah, yeah that's what I'll do! I'll start an Twitter campaign! #ITSHOULDHAVEBEENDAARIO

4. DEPRESSION - :frown5:

5. THE UPWARD TURN - Well, this Tyrion/Jorah scene is pretty good. Yay! There's Drogon! So glad to see Oleanna back in the mix.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH: Ok, this show will never be what I thought it was going to be, so I can only watch it for what it is. This is an "alternate universe" Game of Thrones, so I just have to understand that what I love in the books will always be with me and this is like a chance to watch the show again and actually be surprised by some plot changes I didn't see coming.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE: Well, at least I've got the pit scene coming up this season. They can't possibly ruin that too. *fingers crossed*

[TheJadeKnight]

Another ex: Why did they make Ellaria Tyene's mother? What was wrong with Tyene having her own mother? It like there's an impulse to tweak every.little.damn.thing. In the big scheme of things it's such a tiny non-issue really but these little changes add up to fan fiction.

I think GRRM himself has a reply to the this. How many children did Scarlett O'Hara have? In the book, three. In the movie, one. In real life, none, because she's not real. But I guess the highest grossing film of all time when adjusted for inflation is also just bad fan fiction because they changed minor details? I won't disagree that there have been some less than optimal changes, but overall the critical reaction to the show is still overwhelmingly postitive and the popularity of the show increases every year. I seriously think some of the people on this site need help when they suggest that GoT might get canceled because they "know" that people are leaving due to the "terrible writing".

[Lord Reaper oOo]

Yes, I'll keep watching.

The elitists who stop watching are laughable.

Go play with your fedora, you silly hipster.

[Lon]

Of course I will keep watching the show as well as reading and rereading the books. The show is the show and the books are the books and they are both worth my time. As far as being spoiled - did the fact that I saw "West Side Story" as a child before I ever saw "Romeo and Juliette" mean that I was "spoiled" for the play? Of course not - the joy of a story is in the telling just as much as the plot.

I think GRRM said it best when he said:

The question of ‘so you can experience the story in its true form,’ it’s kind of a loaded one. I’ve said a couple of times in posts, the riddle ‘how many children does Scarlett O’Hara have?’ Scarlett O’Hara has three children in Margaret Mitchell’s novel. Scarlett O’Hara has one child in the classic movie of Gone With The Wind. How many children does Scarlett O’Hara have? What’s the true story? Of course the true story is Scarlett O’Hara has no children because she never existed. She’s a fictional character and there are two wonderful, classic ways of telling the story.

The show is the show and the book is the book. Who did Robb Stark marry? Did he marry a noblewoman from Volantis named Talisa, who died at the Red Wedding? Or did he marry a woman named Jeyne Westerling who’s still alive and will be seen in the prologue of ‘Winds of Winter’? Is one true? Is one not true? Well, how many children did Scarlett O’Hara have?

- at Comicon 2014

[chris999]

the book are never going to be finished so i want to know how it all ends. i am not one of these people who gets upset at the two differing either. as mentioned above, they are seperate beasts.

I agree.

I view the HBO series as the only way I will get to see how this story ends.

I dont think that GRRM is going to live the 15 or so years is is going to take him to finish 2 (3 or 4) more books.

He did an interview 2 months ago where he said he hadnt decided what to do with Jon Snow after the stabbing...

That basically means that he hashardly written anything as far as WOW is concerned... and he started writing it 5 years ago... Major problems.

Show will be the only resolution we get, so I hope they dont mess it up any more than they have to.

[PhoenixfromAshes]

I will still continue to watch it until the very end. It's too far gone to stop now, and already invested with the characters.

Besides the books are taking so long to be released, and the wait is aggravating. At least the show guaranteed to give us the ending.

[Lady Octarina]

I'm fine with the show deviating from the books, especially when there isn't enough source material. The problem is that whatever it is becoming, it's not something that excites me as much as it used to. Season 4 was already not so great, but 5 has been either boring or just unnecessarily offending, including all these horrible scenes that add nothing to the story - and actually betray the essence of characters and the arcs they were going through.

So, I really don't know if I'll continue watching it. I'll finish season five, because every other show is on hiatus, but after that, I really don't know. It's likely I'll continue watching if TWOW continues to be a distant dream, but it's not something I look forward to anymore, so I'l probably watch the episodes days or weeks after they air.

On the bright side, the show has been so terrible lately, a trend that is sure to continue, that seeing this disaster will actually make us appreciate the final books more when we finally read them. :cool4:

[Dayne's Sword]

He did an interview 2 months ago where he said he hadnt decided what to do with Jon Snow after the stabbing...

That basically means that he hashardly written anything as far as WOW is concerned... and he started writing it 5 years ago... Major problems.

Oh dear. is that a possible smoke screen from george or legit and its another merrenese knot? Do you have the link to the interview on the off chance?

[Fearodh]

Will keep on watching. I might enjoy the show much more once they leave the books completely behind and I no longer compare it to how it "really" happens.

Also I am in no mood to wait for another 15 years before finally knowing the end.

I start to enjoy the show as a completely separate thing, and as long as it is enjoyable on its own, I will watch. And then I will enjoy the books when they finally do come out.