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[Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion

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Pondering what the Forbes article posted earlier suggested...that Trystane = Aegon and the reveal will be that Dorne has been hiding him all along. Could this work on the show? If so, did Doran hide that information from Oberyn or did he know? Something has to save the Dorne storyline.

makes no sense in the context of what Faegon is a riff on: Lamber Simnel and Perkin Warbeck, The whole point about pretenders is that they suddenly appear and then get picked up by opportunistic noble houses. The right time to unveil the pretender would be during the war of the 5 kings NOT afterwards [ Proof , if it were needed that Faegon is GRRM Filler invented to help the 5 year gap pass....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_Simnel

how similar does the 2nd para sounds to Book Varys speech at the end of ADwD??

Edited by God-Emperor of Yi Ti

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[ Proof , if it were needed that Faegon is GRRM Filler invented to help the 5 year gap pass....

I don't know if I'd call it filler. Varys and Illyrio, definitely had a long track plan. We see them plotting in the beginning of both the show and books. Perhaps the plot is not important in the grand scheme or final outcome. But now, it seems...at least in terms of the show, they were speaking about Dany. At this point....it's anyone's guess.

But, I really doubt T. Martell is going to assume the role of Aegon. It just seems to be, far to late in the game.

Edited by Northbound3.0

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I don't know. D&D are really diverging from the books. If Trystane is not Aegon why cast him at all? Certainly not to be Quentyn, a storyline that seems more filler than Aegon's.

EP 09 is titled the Dance of the Dragons. What Dragons are Dancing if not a dragon opposed to Daenerys? I think it is possible D&D will reveal Trystane to be Aegon. He can still be Faegon, still delivered by Varys, just to Doran instead of Jon Con. Still can be Doran's goal to marry someone to Daenerys, except now it's Faegon. Doran tells him he cannot marry Myrcella because He is Aegon and he made arrangements to marry him to Daenerys and he marries Myrcella instead, and heads off to Westeros. Or he doesn't marry Myrcella and heads to Mereen. Who knows. I think it could be a possibility.

Edited by DebL66

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Boring, like this entire season has been.

Cersei scene, Olenna scenes were the only good scenes.

Who thought that it was a good idea to bin Aegon, Arianne, Victarion/Euron? That man should be sacked considering that those are by far the best parts in the book. At this point, I don't mind changes, but at-least make good changes. It is pointless removing some good part and replacing them with Brianne and Sand Snakes.

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Boring, like this entire season has been.

Cersei scene, Olenna scenes were the only good scenes.

Who thought that it was a good idea to bin Aegon, Arianne, Victarion/Euron? That man should be sacked considering that those are by far the best parts in the book. At this point, I don't mind changes, but at-least make good changes. It is pointless removing some good part and replacing them with Brianne and Sand Snakes.

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Aegon is not a filler. The idea of JonCon being "dead" and exiled in Essos was presented already in book 3.

I swear, you have a program on your device that alerts you, when any mention of JonCon or those around him are talked about.

Side note: Your post in another thread, about boobs and chocolate milk...was delicious.

Edited by Northbound3.0

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I swear, you have a program on your device that alerts you, when any mention of JonCon or those around him are talked about.

Indeed. It's the Griffsignal... I'm here to defend his honour, like a very good beard. Also Duck's because Duck needs love.

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Boring, like this entire season has been.

Cersei scene, Olenna scenes were the only good scenes.

Who thought that it was a good idea to bin Aegon, Arianne, Victarion/Euron? That man should be sacked considering that those are by far the best parts in the book. At this point, I don't mind changes, but at-least make good changes. It is pointless removing some good part and replacing them with Brianne and Sand Snakes.

I wouldn't mind the sand snakes because I like them in the books, but I find their characters in the show to be a big cheesy and over-dramatic. I however do miss Aegon, Euron/Victarion, and miss the sex scenes with Arianne :(

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I don't know if I'd call it filler. Varys and Illyrio, definitely had a long track plan. We see them plotting in the beginning of both the show and books. Perhaps the plot is not important in the grand scheme or final outcome. But now, it seems...at least in terms of the show, they were speaking about Dany. At this point....it's anyone's guess.

But, I really doubt T. Martell is going to assume the role of Aegon. It just seems to be, far to late in the game.

well we are agreed on the principal point.

Aegon is not a filler. The idea of JonCon being "dead" and exiled in Essos was presented already in book 3.

Filler is not the correct word, and is in any case perjorative.

Let me say instead that GRRM seems to perhaps get the balance between adding depth of context and richness of sub-plot versus keeping a clarity of focus on the main plot,...well a little skewed sometimes. This is probably an unavoidable result of his production method, which seems to be to make it up as he goes along (with a resolution and endgame in mind obs...) .as Tolkien so famously put it "This tale grew in the telling" . But my criticism is that whereas Tolkien trimmed fascinating in their own right but subservient to the main LOTR plot stories like the goings on in Lorien & Mirkwood, GRRM is putting everything up on screen and leaving it late in the day to tell us which bits will matter.

So Arianne's story could and is sorted out by a face to face chat with Doran, with almost no consequences [ 1 ear and 1 lovedrunk Oakheart]. Thats just a little too neat in my book, always a giveaway for wheelspinning, and if D&D pulled a stunt like that, they would get lots of grief for needless subplotting.

Faegon is more plugged into the main plot, and there is at least some indication GRRM didn't just make it up post book 3. JCRB, maybe you can point to something where GRRM made it clear that he had plans for Jon Con beyond being a Jorah Mormount like character. But from classical Greek drama to today, any character introduced that late into a story is going to have question marks over their centrality to the plot, and raise the potential criticism that the writer has run out of road with their existing characters.

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and miss the sex scenes with Arianne :(

Ahhh. My sweet Arianne. How I wish for a scene in the books, where she and Asha are in same room.

Edited by Northbound3.0

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I don't know. D&D are really diverging from the books. If Trystane is not Aegon why cast him at all? Certainly not to be Quentyn, a storyline that seems more filler than Aegon's.

EP 09 is titled the Dance of the Dragons. What Dragons are Dancing if not a dragon opposed to Daenerys? I think it is possible D&D will reveal Trystane to be Aegon. He can still be Faegon, still delivered by Varys, just to Doran instead of Jon Con. Still can be Doran's goal to marry someone to Daenerys, except now it's Faegon. Doran tells him he cannot marry Myrcella because He is Aegon and he made arrangements to marry him to Daenerys and he marries Myrcella instead, and heads off to Westeros. Or he doesn't marry Myrcella and heads to Mereen. Who knows. I think it could be a possibility.

Princely houses do not harbour pretenders. Besides which, the birth of Trystane would be a well recorded event. Heirs do not just magically appear.

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I don't know. D&D are really diverging from the books. If Trystane is not Aegon why cast him at all? Certainly not to be Quentyn, a storyline that seems more filler than Aegon's.

Because Myrcella had been already sent to Dorne to marry Doran's son. Can't remember if they called him by his name (I think they did) but they had to keep him or then Myrcella wouldn't have a plot. The problem is that they are revolving the plot around Myrcella instead of Arianne.

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Eh, there's nothing in the show that I can recall about TV Sansa having an issue with bastards or TV Jon having an issue with Sansa always reminding him of his bastard status. She needles Ramsay about it because it's a sore spot with him, not because she hates bastards. For all we know, TV Jon and TV Sansa always got along.

She is needling him and pointing out that he isn't going to have the upper hand in the relationship for long if he does not get rid of the competition.

apparently the poison only takes effect when you get an erection.

Poisons usually take effect faster with increased heart rate. If you get bitten by a snake you should not run for that reason. She was increasing his heart rate with her taunting before giving him the gift of the antidote.

i think it's official that there would be no "for the watch" scene. and if jon would get stabbed he won't stand much of a chance without ghost or mel around.

Why would ghost not be there?

I don't think Mel saves Jon. She is evil and so is her religion.

I think he is going to survive without any external help.

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Princely houses do not harbour pretenders. Besides which, the birth of Trystane would be a well recorded event. Heirs do not just magically appear.

It's fiction, not history. It's also D&D we're talking here.

I think it's a perfectly plausible way for them to include the Aegon storyline, and I don't understand why they would flesh out Trystane, of all the Martell children, so much if not to reveal him as Aegon. In the show, Varys would have convinced him it was really Aegon and Doran would have been keeping him safe all these years waiting for the right moment to reveal him. Doran is a long game player. Trystane, on finding out his "true" identity, marries Myrcella and decides to head to King's Landing to challenge Tommen's kingship in order to make Myrcella Queen.

Cersei is pretty clearly foreshadowed to burn Kings Landing down. Would be an interesting full circle to see Jaime come along with Myrcella to Kings Landing and kill Cersei as she is burning down the city. She sees both her children killed somewhere in all of this and then is killed by her valonqar. It would make sense in show universe.

Edited by DebL66

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Because Myrcella had been already sent to Dorne to marry Doran's son. Can't remember if they called him by his name (I think they did) but they had to keep him or then Myrcella wouldn't have a plot. The problem is that they are revolving the plot around Myrcella instead of Arianne.

Yes, I agree. So in show universe wouldn't it make sense that they are merging both Trystane/Aegon and Myrcella/Arianne? Just as they are merging Sansa/Jeyne Poole?

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I wonder at times if people hate the show so much, why do they tune in every week and then spend their time breaking down every detail and why it's inferior. If you dislike it that much, just stop. Sure the show has it's flaws, but it's still entertaining me. Heck, I'm just glad we're finally getting new material after all this time even if it's like this.


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He's not very well cast if he's Aegon. A lot of ages in the show are variable. But Aegon is definitely older then Jon, Dany and Robb.

Yes, you have a good point there. Who knows, but given all the changes they have been making, I still think it's a possibility.

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Eh, there's nothing in the show that I can recall about TV Sansa having an issue with bastards or TV Jon having an issue with Sansa always reminding him of his bastard status. She needles Ramsay about it because it's a sore spot with him, not because she hates bastards. For all we know, TV Jon and TV Sansa always got along.

yes

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