The true location of Dany's house with the red door

[Veltigar]

Nobody was answering and I really wanted to know - so I googled it

http://www.dailydot.com/society/hashtag-jameson-baby-name/

Wasn't a celebrity - just some plain old joe's. Who apparently need a better baby-name book :)

I'd say they should stop smoking crack, but I guess a good babyname book is a start :p Although, looking at that FB post, I rather doubt that their reading skills are good enough to use such a book.

[Jak Scaletongue]

I'd say they should stop smoking crack, but I guess a good babyname book is a start :P Although, looking at that FB post, I rather doubt that their reading skills are good enough to use such a book.

I was thinking of editing my post to add that, but I figured someone else would catch it too ;) But you're right, the book probably wouldn't have helped :P

[Lost Melnibonean]

Underscore and all? :p

Absolutely.

[Lost Melnibonean]

OL, the only text I could get my hot little hands on was from the 1996 novella Blood of the Dragon published outside of and apparently after Asimov's Science Fiction, July 1999. Daenerys was in Braavos. But I did notice this, which is in Game as well...

The merchant must have taken her for Dothraki, with her clothes and her oiled hair and sun-browned skin. When she spoke, he gaped at her in astonishment. "My lady, you are . . . Tyroshi? Can it be so?"

"My speech may be Tyroshi, and my garb Dothraki, but I am of Westeros, of the Sunset Kingdoms," Dany told him.

Daenerys VI, Game 54

I really want to get my hands on Asimov's Science Fiction, July 1996...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

OL, the only text I could get my hot little hands on was from the 1996 novella Blood of the Dragon published outside of and apparently after Asimov's Science Fiction, July 1999. Daenerys was in Braavos. But I did notice this, which is in Game as well...

Daenerys VI, Game 54

I really want to get my hands on Asimov's Science Fiction, July 1996...

I saw a copy available on amazon for 250 dollars.... So that's not going to be the copy I will get my hands on :)

Found no screenshot of the page that shows Tyrosh (found no screenshot containing text at all), nor an online preview.

Did find this, which might help.

The story is supposedly been placed unedited in Quartet from 2001. (ISBN13 = 9781886778351)

[Frey family reunion]

OL, the only text I could get my hot little hands on was from the 1996 novella Blood of the Dragon published outside of and apparently after Asimov's Science Fiction, July 1999. Daenerys was in Braavos. But I did notice this, which is in Game as well...

Daenerys VI, Game 54

I really want to get my hands on Asimov's Science Fiction, July 1996...

Yea, I'm not sure of the veracity of the reddit claim. You can read the 1996 novella blood of the dragon online here http://ironthronesaga.weebly.com/uploads/2/1/0/0/21001910/blood_of_the_dragon.pdf

And it reads the same as the version of AGOT. I don't have a copy of quartet but I'd like to see an independent confirmation of the text. The fact that the quartet came out in 2001, makes it unusual that there would have been a change from the 1996 novella.

I noticed the Tyroshi accent and obviously we have the brother to the Archon of Tyrosh as well eta: at Dany's "wedding shower". Later, we learn that the daughter of the Archon of Tyrosh had spent time in the Water Gardens as well. And Dany being a child of three also harkens back to Tyrosh a bit as well.

If the lemon tree was an editing mistake from AGOT, I'm not sure why the mistake is then made again in ACOK, and why GRRM seems to highlight this mistake in AFOC and the upcoming chapters of AWOW, perhaps he is just trolling us.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yea, I'm not sure of the veracity of the reddit claim. You can read the 1996 novella blood of the dragon online here http://ironthronesaga.weebly.com/uploads/2/1/0/0/21001910/blood_of_the_dragon.pdf

And it reads the same as the version of AGOT. I don't have a copy of quartet but I'd like to see an independent confirmation of the text. The fact that the quartet came out in 2001, makes it unusual that there would have been a change from the 1996 novella.

I noticed the Tyroshi accent and obviously we have the brother to the Archon of Tyrosh as well eta: at Dany's "wedding shower". Later, we learn that the daughter of the Archon of Tyrosh had spent time in the Water Gardens as well. And Dany being a child of three also harkens back to Tyrosh a bit as well.

If the lemon tree was an editing mistake from AGOT, I'm not sure why the mistake is then made again in ACOK, and why GRRM seems to highlight this mistake in AFOC and the upcoming chapters of AWOW, perhaps he is just trolling us.

I saw that online document too. I have to be honest and say that I suspect that someone simply copied the chapters from A Game of Thrones and placed them into one document which was put online... Due to the appendix in the back.

How does Dany being a child of three harkens back to Tyrosh? Could you explain?

[three-eyed monkey]

And isn't the Tyrosh before Braavos edit just a theory?

It is just a theory but there might be something too it.

The wine-seller in Vaes Dothrak guesses that Dany is from Tyrosh. She replies, "My speech may be Tyroshi, and my garb Dothraki, but I am of Westeros, of the Sunset Kingdoms." They are speaking valyrian so her speech being Tyroshi is obviously indicative of her accent. Accents are formed in the early years of speech, so this is either another mystery, like why does a girl who grew up in Braavos have a Tyroshi accent? Maybe the Sealord had some Tyroshi slaves imported with the lemon tree? Or maybe Dany did spend her early years in Tyrosh, unbeknownst to herself, accounting for the lemon tree and accent, but what would that do for the plot?

Alternatively, GRRM changed from Tyrosh to Braavos and missed a few connected details, like the accent and the lemon tree. I love a good mystery but I think I'm leaning towards this explanation.

[Frey family reunion]

I saw that online document too. I have to be honest and say that I suspect that someone simply copied the chapters from A Game of Thrones and placed them into one document which was put online... Due to the appendix in the back.

How does Dany being a child of three harkens back to Tyrosh? Could you explain?

Well it has the correct publishing info, so who knows. Which is kind of the problem in going down this road of outside the books speculation. Not are we speculating about ambiguities in the books themselves, then we start speculating about rumors and outlines, and editing mistakes, not as much fun to me anyway, as just debating about a source material that we can all access equally.

But back to your question isn't Tyrosh known for their statue of Tyros with three heads?

[Frey family reunion]

It is just a theory but there might be something too it.

The wine-seller in Vaes Dothrak guesses that Dany is from Tyrosh. She replies, "My speech may be Tyroshi, and my garb Dothraki, but I am of Westeros, of the Sunset Kingdoms." They are speaking valyrian so her speech being Tyroshi is obviously indicative of her accent. Accents are formed in the early years of speech, so this is either another mystery, like why does a girl who grew up in Braavos have a Tyroshi accent? Maybe the Sealord had some Tyroshi slaves imported with the lemon tree? Or maybe Dany did spend her early years in Tyrosh, unbeknownst to herself, accounting for the lemon tree and accent, but what would that do for the plot?

Alternatively, GRRM changed from Tyrosh to Braavos and missed a few connected details, like the accent and the lemon tree. I love a good mystery but I think I'm leaning towards this explanation.

Well if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, perhaps Dany's secret birthplace was initially supposed to be Tyrosh, which is why he dropped a hint as to her accent and why he had the brother of the Archon of Tyrosh show up at her shower, but then the Quartet blew the secret by publishing a version with the secret revealed, and he had to make a quick change to Dorne as her secret birthplace, which is why he put the Archon's green haired daughter in the Water Gardens, and why Arianne was supposed to take her place in Tyrosh, and and and crap it's dark down in this rabbit hole, I think I'm lost.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

But back to your question isn't Tyrosh known for their statue of Tyros with three heads?

Known for? Not that I recall. But it does have a temple called Temple of Trios with a statue of the three-heads Trios, a god.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yea, I'm not sure of the veracity of the reddit claim. You can read the 1996 novella blood of the dragon online here http://ironthronesaga.weebly.com/uploads/2/1/0/0/21001910/blood_of_the_dragon.pdf

And it reads the same as the version of AGOT. I don't have a copy of quartet but I'd like to see an independent confirmation of the text. The fact that the quartet came out in 2001, makes it unusual that there would have been a change from the 1996 novella.

I noticed the Tyroshi accent and obviously we have the brother to the Archon of Tyrosh as well eta: at Dany's "wedding shower". Later, we learn that the daughter of the Archon of Tyrosh had spent time in the Water Gardens as well. And Dany being a child of three also harkens back to Tyrosh a bit as well.

If the lemon tree was an editing mistake from AGOT, I'm not sure why the mistake is then made again in ACOK, and why GRRM seems to highlight this mistake in AFOC and the upcoming chapters of AWOW, perhaps he is just trolling us.

Hypothesis: When The George began writing ASOIAF in the early 1990s, back when he intended to have Daenerys find her eggs by tripping over them in the Dothraki Sea, he intended to have Daenerys escape from Dragonstone to Tyrosh, and that's the reason for the lemon mystery. That she told the wine seller that her speech was Tyroshi is a very compeling bit of evidence. But to prove or disprove the hypothesis we should check the earliest published text of The Blood of the Dragon in Asimov's Science Fiction, July 1996.

The county library where I live might be able to order a copy for me :)

[three-eyed monkey]

Well if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, perhaps Dany's secret birthplace was initially supposed to be Tyrosh, which is why he dropped a hint as to her accent and why he had the brother of the Archon of Tyrosh show up at her shower, but then the Quartet blew the secret by publishing a version with the secret revealed, and he had to make a quick change to Dorne as her secret birthplace, which is why he put the Archon's green haired daughter in the Water Gardens, and why Arianne was supposed to take her place in Tyrosh, and and and crap it's dark down in this rabbit hole, I think I'm lost.

I'd actually like to see where you go with this, though I'm probably in the minority. Down the rabbit hole is my favourite place. More people should go there.

I saw that online document too. I have to be honest and say that I suspect that someone simply copied the chapters from A Game of Thrones and placed them into one document which was put online... Due to the appendix in the back.

There was one minor change I noticed but nothing of significance. Just a typical draft to draft change in phrasing. I haven't compared the texts but I don't think it's a copy and paste.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

It is just a theory but there might be something too it.

The wine-seller in Vaes Dothrak guesses that Dany is from Tyrosh. She replies, "My speech may be Tyroshi, and my garb Dothraki, but I am of Westeros, of the Sunset Kingdoms." They are speaking valyrian so her speech being Tyroshi is obviously indicative of her accent. Accents are formed in the early years of speech, so this is either another mystery, like why does a girl who grew up in Braavos have a Tyroshi accent? Maybe the Sealord had some Tyroshi slaves imported with the lemon tree? Or maybe Dany did spend her early years in Tyrosh, unbeknownst to herself, accounting for the lemon tree and accent, but what would that do for the plot?

Alternatively, GRRM changed from Tyrosh to Braavos and missed a few connected details, like the accent and the lemon tree. I love a good mystery but I think I'm leaning towards this explanation.

Not necessarily. If you live in a place long enough you will pick up on the local accent. And some of us pick them up after just a few hours. Repeating the pattern for a couple of years could have a permanent effect.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Double post (see below)

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Known for? Not that I recall. But it does have a temple called Temple of Trios with a statue of the three-heads Trios, a god.

Braavos has a statue of Trios. I remember it from one of Arya's chapters.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The county library where I live might be able to order a copy for me :)

Cool :) atm, I suspect that the Tyroshi speech thing might have been left in error when Tyrosh was changed to Braavos, but wasn't changed in later editions either (which is the case with some other mistakes) because Daenerys indeed spend time in Tyrosh.. She tells us so herself when describing her journeys.

There was one minor change I noticed but nothing of significance. Just a typical draft to draft change in phrasing. I haven't compared the texts but I don't think it's a copy and paste.

So no actual details changed, only phrasing ?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Braavos has a statue of Trios. I remember it from one of Arya's chapters.

Indeed, mentioned in The Ugly Little Girl :)

[Rippounet]

But back to your question isn't Tyrosh known for their statue of Trios with three heads?

That three-headed god is very interesting. It evokes both the three heads ot the Targaryen dragon and the reanimation of the dead through magic/religious ritual.

Trios seems to be a symbol for change or transformation. Past, present and future. Birth, life and death. But in the Tyroshi ritual, death comes before rebirth, not unlike the rituals of the Ironborn.

If so, the symbol would be that one must be killed before being reborn, that one must destroy before rebuilding. The three-headed dragon of the Targaryens would be a symbol of their ability to destroy (through fire and blood) before creating a new world order. And this is what Aegon the Conqueror did to Westeros in a way: destroying the old order (separate kingdoms) to create the new (the IT and a united continent of Westeros).

Quaithe telling Dany that she is the "child of three" combined with Dany's Tyroshi accent is troubling... Could Dany be a daughter of Trios? It doesn't matter where she lived, the symbol alone is food for thought. The House of the Undying's riddle were all about threes as well: "Daughter of death, slayer of lies, bride of fire."

Was she reborn when the dragons hatched or is her rebirth still to come? Could she have miraculously survived an assassin when she was a child (thus "dying" and being reborn)? Must she destroy to rebuild, or is she the destroyer and someone else the builder?

This might mean nothing, but it's the kind of detail that Martin likes. Maybe he switched Dany to Braavos so that the link between the three-headed dragon and the three-headed god would not be too obvious.

Crazy crazy thought... Dany is magical. She is the Amethyst Empress reborn and the mother of dragons. The red priests of R'hllor are likely to see her as Azor Ahai. She is the symbol of fire magic, just as the Starks are supposed to be the symbol of ice magic.

And we know what magic can do is this world: the Others, Thoros of Myr, the Damphair... Melisandre can birth shadows... And everyone thinks that Jon has been killed and will be reborn "amidst salt and smoke" at the Wall.

So... If Dany doesn't die herself, could this mean she has some sort of power over the dying or the undead?

[Lost Melnibonean]

If her house with the red door was originally in Tyrosh, why did The George put a lemon tree outside of Daenerys's window? The lemon, of course, is defined by its yellow color and sour taste. In addition to its use as food and drink, lemons can be used to clean. I'm guessing this helped the sansanistas to associate lemons with purity and innocence, but my understanding is that the lemon in art symbolizes bitterness and disappointment. Exhibit A would be the Lemon Tree, the Israeli film from 2008, in which a Palestinian attempts to stop her neighbor, who happens to be the Israeli Defense Minister, from destroying the family's lemon grove.

In the end, the protagonist's efforts fail, and the trees are cut down.

The fruit appears to have originated in South Asia. Although they were known in Ancient Rome, they were not widely known in Europe until the tenth century. The first significant cultivation of lemons in Europe did not happen until the very end of the Middle Ages. Since they had to be imported to medieval Europe, lemons became associated with wealth and power. Despite what some sansanistas seem to think, this symbolism of wealth and power seems to have been The George's intention when he had

Petyr serve the giant lemon cake in Alayne I, Winds.

Going back to Daenerys, I dont see why we would need a lemon tree to symbolize the innocence Daenerys lost when she and Viserys were expelled from Tyrosh, I mean Braavos. Daeneryss red door fulfills that symbolism. I believe The George included the lemon tree to foreshadow Daenerys's ultimate bitterness and disappointment.