LordStoneheart Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 No. If there's no problem warging Summer, there's no problem with Hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 If you can warg a wolf you can warg a man. Animals have rights too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 If Bran's an abomination what are you going to call his cannibal brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Rose Crown Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 If Bran's an abomination what are you going to call his cannibal brother? what? Rickon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Crow Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I don't think you can consider the warging of Hodor and warging of Summer as the same thing. We never read about how Summer hates being warged; it seems consensual. We know Hodor finds it unpleasant. A better comparison would be the she-bear and Varamyr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I don't think you can consider the warging of Hodor and warging of Summer as the same thing. We never read about how Summer hates being warged; it seems consensual. We know Hodor finds it unpleasant. A better comparison would be the she-bear and Varamyr. I agree. The fact that Bran knows Hodor doesn't like it is something that has to be considered. When Bran does it to save them, that's fine. But for fun knowing it upsets Hodor is not ok. He's young and mostly untrained so he's on a slippery slope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphon the Sanitator Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think he is. This kid is probably on the verge of godhood, like it was said earlier in this thread, and somehow he gains these powers even though he's only 9 about now. How can he be anything BUT an abomination? A child with godlike powers? It can't go well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yes, major forshadowing of what is to come. He will be one of the top antiheroes that is under the control of Bloodraven, the main anti-hero. He will take control of the massive ice dragon in the black pool of winterfell after Jon dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 No. If there's no problem warging Summer, there's no problem with Hodor. Summer gives consent, Hodor is reduced to a whimpering mess by Bran's forceful penetration of his person. Bran himself thinks he needs to whip him into submission, that is not how you treat a person, and even less a friend. If Bran's an abomination what are you going to call his cannibal brother? Bran has already dabbled into cannibalism as well (although unwillingly), I personally think being a mind rapist is worse than a cannibal, though they're both absolutely awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I have no doubt that the warging in to a human is an abomination line was put in there for a reason, but still consider potentially future Bran/Bloodraven as forces of nature, neutral entities. There are several forces of nature/gods in this series that seem to converging and battling each other, I don't think they are necessarily evil. Tho R'hollor kinda seems like an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theladystoneheart Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Could it be considered an abomination because it may lead to what the Nights King can do? I think that the wights are a result of some over powered warging ability. As there eyes change to match that of the White Walkers. So surely the wights must be under warg control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Summer gives consent, Hodor is reduced to a whimpering mess by Bran's forceful penetration of his person. Bran himself thinks he needs to whip him into submission, that is not how you treat a person, and even less a friend. Bran has already dabbled into cannibalism as well (although unwillingly), I personally think being a mind rapist is worse than a cannibal, though they're both absolutely awful. Agreed. The wolf/warg connection is said to be like a marriage. There's nothing consensual about his entering Hodor. There's even a line that reads basically that Bran liked to tell himself that Hodor knows it's him. I call that rationalizing a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmane Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 He is an abomination from the perspective of the unwritten "code of warg". Arguably the worst he done until now is to warg another person for good purpose or just for fun. I think the part of using another person "to do evil" is just around the corner. Until now Hodor was only his legs, but he lost control of other parts beyond his waste as well. Using Hodor to rape Meera was already suggested on the forum and the song of Brave Danny Flint may have been a foreshadowing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nights Kings Queen Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Summer gives consent, Hodor is reduced to a whimpering mess by Bran's forceful penetration of his person. Bran himself thinks he needs to whip him into submission, that is not how you treat a person, and even less a friend. Bran has already dabbled into cannibalism as well (although unwillingly), I personally think being a mind rapist is worse than a cannibal, though they're both absolutely awful.I didn't even think of it like this. Now that you've said it I agree. Bran is basically mind raping hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Bran is a god Not sure is sarcastic or not but I agree. There is also the fact that he had no one to teach him that what he was doing to Hodor was wrong. Varamyr ahd Haggon but Bran along with his siblings had to find and train themselves alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Not sure is sarcastic or not but I agree. There is also the fact that he had no one to teach him that what he was doing to Hodor was wrong. Varamyr ahd Haggon but Bran along with his siblings had to find and train themselves alone. I agree that he's on a curve since he hasn't been taught otherwise. But he can taste Hodor's fear at the back of his throat, that should tell him it's wrong. I think it does, but he rationalizes it to himself so he can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It is part of the larger theme about actions taken with power and justifying actions taken for attaining power.'Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should do a thing.''Absolute power corrupts absolutely.'etc Bran has to learn the limits, lest something very bad happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nights Kings Queen Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I agree that he's on a curve since he hasn't been taught otherwise. But he can taste Hodor's fear at the back of his throat, that should tell him it's wrong. I think it does, but he rationalizes it to himself so he can do it. Yes, he's a little boy and can't fully understand what he's doing. But he is a little boy who wants to walk, so if he can find a way to walk he will do it and defend himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 To me Bran is on a very morally slippery slope. He's a kid with this frightening ability without the discipline to know when he should, and more to the point shouldn't use it. Admittedly most of the times he warged Hodor there were extenuating circumstances. Such as shutting him up to save their loves or having him defend the group. Other times... he seems to just be enjoying walking again and I think that's a gateway to a bad place if he's literally using other people's bodies for her personal wants. I'm not saying he's there yet by any stretch, but he could go down a dark path very easily and quickly I think if he doesn't learn better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Has anyone ever considered the following: The first time Bran did it, it was necessary. Nearly everyone agrees it was necessary, no matter how much they want to demonize him. The second time he did it was also necessary. The whole group was about to be killed by wights. And the times people have the problem with, in the caves exploring, those aren't bad to me because of the previous times. It may sound horrible, but the damage and fright for Hodor had already been done by then. Two necessary times Bran did it, and yes, it probably scared the hell out of Hodor (as did the lightning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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