R+L = J will be the big reveal

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

The problem is that people keep getting The Mad King and Rhaegar mixed up. I keep seeing the Unsullied thinking Jon and Dany would be siblings.

They need to establish the characters more and not just briefly mention them. A good example would be the Knight of the Laughing tree story (and strongly hint that it was Lyanna) because it would leave a lasting impression of the character. She would come across as a really interesting character and not just some dead beauty.

This season has been good at dropping Rhaegar's name a few times but it is not enough. People don't pay attention. When Baristan was talking about Rhaegar, it was for Dany's benefit so it had little importance to the story. It was just fond memories.

Barristan refers to him as "Your brother" several times but I agree that the KotLT story would be apt since it would establish Rhaegar as the anti-Aerys. Also Robert killing Rhaegar and Jaime killing Aerys are both pretty important plot points that we have mentioned frequently. Unfortunately it's much easier for people to pay less attention to TV as well as books being easier to mention something repeatedly without it seem like they're bashing you over the head with information. To that I'll paraphrase what David Benioff said, which was if you want real detail and depth then go read the books.

[sj4iy]

Being Azor Ahai reborn just means that Jon is the next incarnation of Azor Ahai. So Azor Ahai was reborn when his mother gave birth to him.

It doesn't mean that Jon has some special powers that allow him to be ressurected and reborn without help every time he's mortally wounded.

He's also the blood of ice and fire. He clearly has magic within him on both sides...he shouldn't need the help of a red priestess to be resurrected. If he were, I don't see anyone 'following' him because he would appear to be nothing more than her puppet, just like Stannis. She can't 'make' him...he needs to 'make' himself in order for people to follow him.

[fangirl000]

This allows the fans to know Jon will be back, since they can't hide Kit shooting scenes.

Here's the thing. I think that Jon's fate will be left as a cliffhanger, because I don't think that the showrunners care whether news of Kit shooting scenes ruins any sort of suspense. They won't start shooting for a few months, so at least they would get that much tension out of the break. And if news gets out about Kit being on set later, well, he could say he's visiting friends, or they could claim he's shooting a flashback. Non-book readers won't know the difference, and book readers will just have to wonder if the writers are making up new content.

[WalkinDude]

Here's the thing. I think that Jon's fate will be left as a cliffhanger, because I don't think that the showrunners care whether news of Kit shooting scenes ruins any sort of suspense. They won't start shooting for a few months, so at least they would get that much tension out of the break. And if news gets out about Kit being on set later, well, he could say he's visiting friends, or they could claim he's shooting a flashback. Non-book readers won't know the difference, and book readers will just have to wonder if the writers are making up new content.

I interpret that just the opposite. Fans of the books are in almost universal agreement that Jon comes back. Whether he never really died, the description of the fight scene was Ghost being attacked through Jon being warged, Mel resurrects him, the Night's King resurrects him or he comes back on his own because he is AA, book fans believe he is coming back. Show fans are the ones who are going to click news articles about the show where it'll be quickly revealed Kit is filming. That leaves just the population of show watchers who like the "OMG" moments ( I know a couple people who always ask me Cersei and Tyrion's name because they can't remember). What better way to create a "Who shot J.R." type of excitement among their biggest base then to reveal that Jon is rightful heir to the throne and probably the guy the hot red head has been talking about for the past 4 seasons. Anecdotal and all that, but my mom quit watching after the took off Ned's head. She couldn't handle it. I know people who quit after the Red Wedding (funny side story, when I read that scene and the ambiguity of what The Hound did to Arya [it just says his axe came down on her], I literally chucked my book across the room). If they reveal Jon to be this all important figure (again, it's not that obvious. I had a friend who read the books before the show even started and his mouth dropped when I casually mentioned R+L=J a couple months ago), it'll give the unsullied reason not only to talk GoT the next 10 months and stir up more attention, but force them to come back to find out for sure.

[hallam]

Here's the thing. I think that Jon's fate will be left as a cliffhanger, because I don't think that the showrunners care whether news of Kit shooting scenes ruins any sort of suspense. They won't start shooting for a few months, so at least they would get that much tension out of the break. And if news gets out about Kit being on set later, well, he could say he's visiting friends, or they could claim he's shooting a flashback. Non-book readers won't know the difference, and book readers will just have to wonder if the writers are making up new content.

I don't think the showrunners would leave the cliffhanger for any reason other than respect for GRRM to give him the chance of doing the reveal if he gets the book out in time.

They have almost certainly shot the complete scene including the resolution and likely have both edited and sitting waiting so they can change their mind at the last minute.

[Grail King]

I was referring to the primary characters. None of those fall in that category. Though Sansa's actions and desire to be queen resulted in Ned losing his head and the loss of most of her family. Had Sansa not ran to Cersei, she'd have made it home to Winterfell with Arya. Sansa's story is tragic thus far, but all of it is a direct result of her own actions.

Ned's loss of his head falls on: Ned himself, and Joffry with possible influence by LF as per Vary's statement Cersei will let him live out his life at the Wall.

Sansa's actions were naive and as a result got her in a hostage situation, not Ned's head.

[yanmaodao]

I think GRRM is very protective of R+L=J and the showrunners would give him the chance to be the first to reveal it. I would think less of them if they didn't. Of course, if WoW isn't out by season 6, the story has to move forward, and it will be on Martin by that point.

[Grail King]

:agree:

Has Rheagar even been mentioned in the show? Almost none of the backstory has been revealed. It is utterly impossible for the solution to Jon's parentage to come out.

We might find out that Jon is not a Stark. But that is not the same as confirming the R+L= J. And its a crackpot theory that the show has already made a subtle dig at. Remember what Little Finger said when he was standing next to Lyanna's tomb, that banging a servant girl was not Ned's way? Is it likely that it was Lyanna's way to bang a handsome already-married Prince? We already know that Lyanna's objection to Robert is he isn't faithful. So suggesting Lyanna is going to cheat on Robert by going with Elia is a stretch to say the least.

This is not going to turn out to be a story about an unwed mother giving birth to a hero fleeing the wrath of a vengeful king. If you want that try Luke or Mathew.

Jon's parentage is more likely to be a plot thread that runs the whole length of Season 6.

Depending on what decision HBO and D&D make, we have two possible endings for episode 10. One is to end the show the same way as the books with Jon's fate unknown. I am pretty sure that is what D&D would prefer artistically. It is also the better commercial option as it means book 6 would fly off the shelves if GRRM gets it out in time. The other is to show him surviving FTW which will then naturally lead to questions of why. That is the safer option for HBO who are desperately skittish about using magic as a plot device.

I think the manner of Jon's survival will establish that he is Targarean but no more. Final confirmation won't come to the end of season 6 episode 10 when he opens Lyanna's crypt to find lightbringer. AAR needs a sword and Jon doesn't exactly have time to make one right now. So the only way to introduce one is for Rheagar to have made it.

Unlike the books, the reveal is likely to come from Sam digging up stuff in the OldsTown archives. So all the stuff D&D skipped over earlier about the tournament etc can be presented in the show. I think the same is going to be true of the whole Ironborn plotline which wasn't in the show this season, I think it will return in season 6.

You must have missed the episode with Sansa and LF in the crypt of WF, along with hints by Ned, Stannis, Oberyn, and others.

[JonisHenryTudor]

I don't think the showrunners would leave the cliffhanger for any reason other than respect for GRRM to give him the chance of doing the reveal if he gets the book out in time.

They have almost certainly shot the complete scene including the resolution and likely have both edited and sitting waiting so they can change their mind at the last minute.

I have been a book reader since 1999. Martin has had since 1996 to reveal it, and even then S1 opened in 2011 and still Martin had time to get WoW out before S6. If they were to reveal it, Martin has nobody to blame for that but himself.

So almost 20 years later.....

It is possible that they will since they poured the hints on this season, but I am not sure if they will.

[direwoofwoof]

I'm not sure that people who haven't read the books will even understand the implications of R+L=J. I remember being completely blown away when I discovered that somewhere on this site years ago.

[Grail King]

I'm not sure that people who haven't read the books will even understand the implications of R+L=J. I remember being completely blown away when I discovered that somewhere on this site years ago.

Thing is when Sean Bean said the lines to Kit, You may not have my name;but you have my blood. She tied that right in to the first episode when Ned and Robert talked about Lyanna and how he dreams of killing Rhaegar every night.

She looked at me and I smiled.

So if people pay attention they will catch things.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Thing is when Sean Bean said the lines to Kit, You may not have my name;but you have my blood. She tied that right in to the first episode when Ned and Robert talked about Lyanna and how he dreams of killing Rhaegar every night.

She looked at me and I smiled.

So if people pay attention they will catch things.

:agree:

I'm not sure that people who haven't read the books will even understand the implications of R+L=J. I remember being completely blown away when I discovered that somewhere on this site years ago.

They might not get all the intricate things, but they have been dropping some pretty heavy clues. S1 and especially S5.

[adiman83]

It pretty much has to end with FTW. People I know who watch the show and didn't read the books couldn't care less about Stannis, not a singe one. They are all rallying to Dany and Jon. SO if it ends with FTW and a fade to black show fans will freak out.

It might end with FTW but I think there's a higher chance of the season ending with Khal Jhaqo's (or whoever replaces him in the show) khalasar submitting to Daenerys. Why do I think that? Because, out of 4 seasons, three of them ended with a big moment for Dany:

- season 1 ended with the dragons being born and the few dothraki that remained behind submitting to her;

- season 2 ended with Xaro Xhoan Daxos getting locked in the vault and the dotraki sacking his villa;

- season 3 ended with Dany taking over Meereen;

[Lord Friendzone]

It might end with FTW but I think there's a higher chance of the season ending with Khal Jhaqo's (or whoever replaces him in the show) khalasar submitting to Daenerys. Why do I think that? Because, out of 4 seasons, three of them ended with a big moment for Dany:

- season 1 ended with the dragons being born and the few dothraki that remained behind submitting to her;

- season 2 ended with Xaro Xhoan Daxos getting locked in the vault and the dotraki sacking his villa; White Walkers not Dany

- season 3 ended with Dany taking over Meereen; Yunkai

It's some sort of a pattern - Fire...Ice...Fire...Ice and now it should be Fire ending, but FTW could end it. Although, it would be extremely depressing way to end the season.

[adiman83]

It's some sort of a pattern - Fire...Ice...Fire...Ice and now it should be Fire ending, but FTW could end it. Although, it would be extremely depressing way to end the season.

Didn't season 4 end with Arya leaving for Braavos? Well, we can still count that as Ice because she's a Stark.

[Daeron Velar]

While that will be an ironic twist especially after the burning of Shireen, I doubt it will revealed that he is the son of Rheagar and Lyanna just yet.

Although it could be player and be the talk of the town for the next season and have people riled up and excited for the next season. They can definitely use that angle and spruce up hype especially the importance of Jon Snow.

[Numantia]

Although it is true that they have give some hints about Lyanna-Rhaegar in the show, I don't think that that information will be a OMG moment for the only-show viewers yet. For few of them maybe, but the amount of information present in each episode of the show for those that haven't read the book is enormous, and remember this little pieces of information, will be rare.

Most of the viewers would't think, and who is Rhaegar?? Confirming that R+L = J should break the internet. And it wouldn't do it now.

Hopefully for next year, they will show more flashback moments or histories of Rhaegar/Lyanna. Even Aerys+Rhaegar and Rhaegar/Robert/Lyanna, and prepare the show viewers for this revelation. Bran could be a perfect way to remember them.

[Lord Friendzone]

Didn't season 4 end with Arya leaving for Braavos? Well, we can still count that as Ice because she's a Stark.

Yeah, Stark=Ice connection is there. Dany/Fire ending makes sense and hopefully it's just like that. I don't want to end it on some depressing tone.

[adiman83]

Yeah, Stark=Ice connection is there. Dany/Fire ending makes sense and hopefully it's just like that. I don't want to end it on some depressing tone.

I could see that happening. The episode synopsis says "Dany ends up being surrounded by strangers". Also, the name of the episode is "Mother's Mercy". That can also be connected to Dany and not only Cersei. She's the Mother Of Dragons and "mother's mercy" could also mean she decides to show the Dothraki mercy by not having Drogon "nuke" them.

[dbunting]

They have had plenty of hints for show watchers to know something was up with his parents and just enough to point toward R+L.

First season as Jon and Ned part ways and Ned gives him the "my blood" line I knew he wasn't Jons' father. My first thought was Benjen (not honorably) and that was why he took the black, but after reading the books (after season 2) it became clear it couldn't be Benjen.