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[Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

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Wow. People on this thread are blaming D&D for killing JonSnow and saying that they won't resurrect him. Just. Wow.

They said it themselves, adamantly. Who is to say he's not off the show. Who is to say that of the big 3, GRRM doesn't kill Jon Snow, so the show is killing him sooner?

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OMG! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now the most hated kid since Carl Grimes

Olly Crusher. :D

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They said it themselves, adamantly. Who is to say he's not off the show. Who is to say that of the big 3, GRRM doesn't kill Jon Snow, so the show is killing him sooner?

"I've being worrying about Jon's for years....he always comes back.

Mel returning to the wall is way to convenient. If I had been wrong about Everything I believed in. I would have gone home, or killed myself. Not gone back to a place full of ex cons.

Variety: Any chance he could be resurrected by Melisandre, who returned to Castle Black?

David Nutter: That’s not my concern. My concern was to take care of Jon Snow, and he’s now deader than dead.

Notice that when they ask the appropriate question directly, they do not answer?

Last but not least, http://watchersonthe...d-john-bradley.[this will probably clear things up].BTW,Kit said that Jon Snow will not come back and that's the truth,Jon will not be the Jon we knew when he is revived.

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D.D. can't succeed because they simply don't get it. Fan's of the material shouldn't write adaptations because they want to add their interprations of the characters in which causes for inconsistency. GRRM is contractonally obligated to support the show. He has been distancing himself from it as time goes on. WHat he should have done is interviewed more people instead picking the first two idiots who say PICK ME PICK ME I KNOW WHO JON'S PARENT'S ARE!!!


Lady Stoneheart being left out is one of those things that could have happened in a 13 show but not a ten show format. Honestly in the end this series will be remembered for it's big moments. Ultimately, GoT will probably end up being average. That's it.


Edited by Marcus Agrippa

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Before the show George regularly spoke out how he hated fanfic. Its very clear from his recent attitude that he is unhappy with the show. Once the show ends I can imagine a very long blog post from George.


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They really sucked all over the moral dilemma out of Jon's assassination.

It was pathetic having Ollie lure him out and then stab him last.

No, it was *brilliant*! We got to see Benjen again! Wait...

:laugh:

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They said it themselves, adamantly. Who is to say he's not off the show. Who is to say that of the big 3, GRRM doesn't kill Jon Snow, so the show is killing him sooner?

They said Dead is dead and Kit Harrington is not coming back.

They did not say dead will stay dead. They did not say that another actor won't play Jon next season.

This suggest to me that Jon's appearance is going to change dramatically and he won't look Stark any more. Which is what I predicted would happen if R+E=J before the episode was shown or we got any of the reveals.

We haven't seen anything in the show to challenge R+E=J. In fact almost no mention of Elia at all. Folk can read whatever they like into the books. Their interpretations are no more credible than Mel's interpretations of what she sees in the flames. I have heard all the nonsense about bloody beds and rooms full of blue flowers. Its all tosh. Bastard is bastard and bastards can't inherit.

What I expected would happen is Jon would wear a wig for the last two seasons. R+E is one of the only two solutions to Jon's parentage that do not make him a bastard. The other being that he is Robert and Lyanna's son. But that makes Lyanna's motives rather weak.

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D.D. can't succeed because they simply don't get it. Fan's of the material shouldn't write adaptations because they want to add their interprations of the characters in which causes for inconsistency. GRRM is contractonally obligated to support the show. He has been distancing himself from it as time goes on. WHat he should have done is interviewed more people instead picking the first two idiots who say PICK ME PICK ME I KNOW WHO JON'S PARENT'S ARE!!!

This kinda imply D&D are fans of the books. I wonder what storyline they are fans considering they have ruined them all.

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I don't think he becomes a true religious fanatic in the show. He's confronted with an ultimate decision, and he continues to make the pragmatic choice -- it's just the enormity and finality of the stakes that are different. Lose your army, lose your war, and fail to fulfill your perceived destiny and divine right, or sacrifice your daughter. As always, he does what he has to do, no more and no less.

You're right, that's a good point. Not only was he driven to religion out of pragmatic reasons deriving from his non-religious fanatical devotion to his right and duty to be King, he followed his religion exactly as far as necessary to accomplish his real goals. He is, in effect, using R'hllor the same way he used, say, the Iron Bank.

I just meant that at this point, show-Stannis clearly actually believes that the Lord of Light is real, and grants Mel's powers, and has chosen him according to the prophecy, etc. (otherwise, he killed his daughter for absolutely no reason); with book-Stannis, it's not clear whether that's the case.

The tragedy, of course, is that he's deluded

Yes. And if (as it seems likely) it turns out that the Lord of the Light, the prophecy, and the necessity of sacrificing Shireen to empower AAR are all real, it's just that Stannis wasn't AAR, that makes it an even better story. He saved the world, but against his will, and he would certainly see it as a tragic outcome. (Unless there's an afterlife, in which case he's not going to sit around moping, he's going to kick R'hllor's ass.)

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No, it was *brilliant*! We got to see Benjen again! Wait...

:laugh:

I thought it was a strange but brilliant choice to recast Benjen as a piece of wood. Never saw that coming, amazing twist.

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This kinda imply D&D are fans of the books. I wonder what storyline they are fans considering they have ruined them all.

The Lannisters! They only improved them a bit, and by 'improved' I mean literally since they're all much nicer people now. :laugh:

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I wouldn't be surprised at all if she lives. It's also possible Doran sent Trystane with an antidote knowing what was possible from the Sand Snakes.

Haha, what? Doran was just like "Oh, they will probably try and kill Myrcella, guess I'd better give Trystane an antidote just in case" instead of...you know...keeping the SFs and Fauxllaria away from Myrcella?

How did they get rid of the tatts?

Airbrush?

Body double.

If they wanted to use her body/she wanted to do the scene, they could have used Dermablend - a thick, cheap concealer used for such scenes like this in movies.

I haven't had time to read through the entire thread, but did someone mention what was the significance of Dany dropping the ring? Was a special ring, one that the Dothraki might recognize?

D&D said in the Inside the Episode it was a breadcrumb for Jorah and Daario - which, just...fuck.

All the horses are gone. Stannis and his men are seen walking to Winterfell.

Mel is on a horse. So, "all" the horses except one? LOL.

You think "all" meant something else? If so, why wasn't anyone in Stannis army riding a horse? Everybody walking.

If the people defending this decision are right (which, LOL) then why not just say "most" of the horses? Literally change one word and inconsistency gone.

Funny thing is that "book purists" have stopped making comparisons between show and books like four episodes ago and only focussed on the show's own inconsistencies and it's still lacking.

Yup, these people who do fun Straw Man arguments about "Book Purists" clearly don't read any of the actual arguments, and don't take the time to participate in a real discussion. They just want to shut down all criticism.

Also, in the book, the brothers assassinate Jon because he is deserting the night's watch to go participate in a political war. In the show they murdered him because they were butthurt about wildlings, even though they have proof that Jon's decision was the best option by far.

Exactly. The death was pointless murder in the show. Nothing like Jon's death in the books.

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D&D said in the Inside the Episode it was a breadcrumb for Jorah and Daario - which, just...fuck.

Putting aside how stupid the idea of two guys searching every bit of land in a vast landscape is, I love how a ring is the marking point of where she is, but the dragon and burned bones aren't. Edited by Nights King's Queen

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We haven't seen anything in the show to challenge R+E=J. In fact almost no mention of Elia at all. Folk can read whatever they like into the books. Their interpretations are no more credible than Mel's interpretations of what she sees in the flames. I have heard all the nonsense about bloody beds and rooms full of blue flowers. Its all tosh. Bastard is bastard and bastards can't inherit.

Yes, if Rhaegar married Lyanna, that would be polygamy, and the Faith doesn't like that. Sure, he believed he needed to conceive three Targaryen children to save the world, and his ancestors didn't care that the Faith didn't like polygamy, and there have been at least two Kings on the Iron Throne whose fathers had multiple wives, but the Faith doesn't like it, so he might as well just give up and let the world die. Of course the Faith doesn't like adultery and fornication any more than it likes polygamy, but who cares about that, getting some hot Stark action is a lot more important than something like saving the world, so he ignored that one and knocked her up anyway. And then he somehow convinced three members of the Kingsguard to stay out of the war just to protect his mistress and their bastard love child. That makes a whole lot more sense than a secret marriage.

Besides, who says Jon has to inherit anything? He can be AAR, or Warden of the North, or Prince Consort to Queen Dany, or all kinds of other things without having to inherit anything. Unless you're expecting an ending where everyone realizes Jon is secretly the Rightful King so they all decide to stop fighting and live happily ever after the end?

R+E is one of the only two solutions to Jon's parentage that do not make him a bastard.

After giving birth to Aegon, Elia was bedridden for six months, and the Maester said that she could probably never conceive again and if she did it would kill her and the child. Rhaegar summoned the best Maesters in Westeros for a second opinion and they all agreed. But we can ignore all that because and assume that she somehow had another child, because ...? Then the only problem left is how and why this impossible child was kept secret from everyone, and somehow ended up in the hands of Ned Stark, but I'm sure you have a solution for that too?

The other being that he is Robert and Lyanna's son. But that makes Lyanna's motives rather weak.

That one's even sillier. How, within the timeline, could Robert have gotten Lyanna pregnant? And, if she had, why would Ned hide that fact from, among other people, Robert? At this point, you may as well suggest that Jon was secretly Cat's son but she somehow bore without knowing, or that he was Ned and Wylla's son and Ned tricked Robert into secretly legitimizing him without realizing it, or that there is no father, it was the midichlorians.

Either R+L=J with a secret marriage, or Jon is a bastard but it doesn't matter (or maybe it matters for magical reasons but not political reasons, and Robb's legitimization is good enough for that).

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Do D&D know how many problems this season had? GRRM is spammed with angry fan mail (which don’t get me wrong I don't approve), but how about D&D? Maybe they think that season 5 was their best season? viewership and ratings were high...


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