three-eyed monkey Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Stannis' arc definitely has a bit to run yet in the books, and tbh I don't really care what they do in the show. My first impression when watching was that he is still alive as we didn't see it. I assumed he would continue a bit further, like he will in the books. But the more I thought about it the more I realised that his whitewashed storyline in the show is actually over. He has burned Shireen already, and shown little remorse. The consequences of the action are not going to be explored, as they will in the books. He's done. That's it. They just cut him from the show, Barristan style. Brienne told us she was going to do it a few episodes back, and that was the set up for last night's pay off. And if that's not bad enough, the only pay off Stannis got for burning Shireen was that the weather broke so he could lead his starving ragtag army to their deaths in a battle against a superior number of mounted foes? Oh I get it. Lesson from D&D, don't burn your kids. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Meth- Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 D&D screwed up this season massively.. i dont consider this show important anymore when it comes to the books. Stannis is suppose to be the finest military man still alive with the exception of maybe sams father. Goddam even baelish says so and says he'd gamble on him.. SO THEN HOW? HOW HOW HOW does RAMSAY BOLTON beat him strategically?? ramsay bloody bolton. with no education cant even probably read is able to absolutely dominate stannis? pure stupidity. Poorly written.. stannis had them massively outnumbered but at the end he has a ragtag band of dudes and boltons have this MASSIVE army all on horse back? the hell man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andros Sotherton Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think it's now been revealed in the show that Mel doesn't have the power she thinks she has, and that the Lord of Light may not exist.But why would they deviate from that very essential part of her story in the books? The act of making all men at Castle Black believe that Mance is Rattleshirt is proof enough of her powers. Even though the show might make changes to a character they can't change something like that, can they?? The only reason for that I would say is if she looses/gives up (or whatever) her powers/beliefs in the two forthcoming books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilletteMace Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 i am glad the whole stannis lot has been killed in the last two episode, the only interesting characters survived Melli and Davos. Stannis, what a loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It is not impossible that book Brienne is also going to come for Stannis. I mean, the whole 'I'll avenge my king' thing is straight from the books, and Catelyn even had to promise Brienne to not hold her back from killing Stannis, so Brienne actually might take him out in the books, too. Under completely different circumstances, of course, but still... Killing off both Shireen and Selyse now in the way they did makes only sense, I think, if Stannis is supposed to be done, too. They rush things towards the ending - I mean, we all know that they won't be able to tell us the same story as the books even remotely if they want to finish this thing in only two more seasons. The show never so much as hinted at a clash between Daenerys and Stannis, and with Aegon apparently being gone for good there may also be no need for Stannis sticking around. The whole Others thing should take most of the last two seasons anyway. But this does not mean all those other plot threads aren't important. I fully expect this show to become even more of a travesty in the coming two seasons - which is why I won't watch the next season if I do not have read TWoW by then - simply because they cannot tell the same story if they cut major plot lines, change a lot of stuff, and rush things to the ending. Perhaps some things will be still based on the same general idea - like Stannis eventually sacrificing Shireen - but it won't be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It is not impossible that book Brienne is also going to come for Stannis. I mean, the whole 'I'll avenge my king' thing is straight from the books, and Catelyn even had to promise Brienne to not hold her back from killing Stannis, so Brienne actually might take him out in the books, too. Under completely different circumstances, of course, but still... That is the only way I can see how Brienne can save Jaime and herself from UnCat. She will save Jaime in the trial by combat and then ask leave to go after Stannis as Cat promised to her. That is how she will head North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You know, my particular issue isn't with Stannis being defeated by the Boltons. If Stannis dies fighting the Boltons, then that's a pretty good ending for him, I think. My issue is his murder of Shireen. Evidently, that was done, among other reasons, so that show!Brienne could have her revenge (and it wasn't fucking justice by any stretch of the imagination) upon Stannis without coming off too badly. Looks like Stannis got thrown under the bus, in order to pump up show!Brienne. And that is crap. There are plenty of reasons to like book!Brienne. This. I love book!Brienne but show!Brienne is annoying as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbob Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Something that occurred to me that seems so obvious. The Starks found a stag killed by a direwolf with pups. The Baratheons are completely wiped out. But the wolves will return. You know, my particular issue isn't with Stannis being defeated by the Boltons. If Stannis dies fighting the Boltons, then that's a pretty good ending for him, I think. My issue is his murder of Shireen. Evidently, that was done, among other reasons, so that show!Brienne could have her revenge (and it wasn't fucking justice by any stretch of the imagination) upon Stannis without coming off too badly. Looks like Stannis got thrown under the bus, in order to pump up show!Brienne. And that is crap. There are plenty of reasons to like book!Brienne. Okay. I like you. I'll agree to disagree. I personally liked Stannis' plotline. I do wish it lasted longer. I do wish Stannis should've went all King Lear. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 They rush things towards the ending - I mean, we all know that they won't be able to tell us the same story as the books even remotely if they want to finish this thing in only two more seasons. The show never so much as hinted at a clash between Daenerys and Stannis, and with Aegon apparently being gone for good there may also be no need for Stannis sticking around. At the same time, they seem to be extending the KL stuff and the ironborn stuff too, until Dany arrives. Kevan and Balon are still breathing ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 How can killing renly be a crime? For gods sake! Stannis is the older brother!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 How can killing renly be a crime? For gods sake! Stannis is the older brother!!!! /nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkar Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 SO THEN HOW? HOW HOW HOW does RAMSAY BOLTON beat him strategically?? ramsay bloody bolton. with no education cant even probably read is able to absolutely dominate stannis? pure stupidity. Poorly written.. stannis had them massively outnumbered but at the end he has a ragtag band of dudes and boltons have this MASSIVE army all on horse back? the hell man? More than 3/4 of his men fled (the stormcrows I think they were called) and about half his arm again after the sacrifice. They took the horses. Ramseys men were almost all mounted, and from the looks of the scene outnumbered stannis more than 4 to 1. Being outnumbered, against mounted troops in an almost open field is almost certain death. The thing is, if Stannis really was that smart of a General, he would have prevented his men from deserting, AND would have seen Ramsey coming vs getting surprised and being forced into the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 How can killing renly be a crime? For gods sake! Stannis is the older brother!!!! I nearly choked when she called him the "rightful king." I mean holy shit, come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Mithras, I doubt that Catelyn is going to allow anyone a trial-by-combat. She is Mother Merciless, after all. And if neither of the Freys got one - not even poor Merrett -, why should Jaime? I don't think Brienne is going North in the books, at least not in the near future. Stannis isn't doing anything right now Catelyn wouldn't want him to do - if she knows that he is up there at all - so Brienne would not be allowed to try to take him out while he is fighting the Boltons. However, she may go North later in Catelyn's service - or even more likely, Stannis is going to run south like a whipped cur after the Wall has fallen and tens of thousands of wights have taken the North. I expect that Brienne either joins Jaime on whatever mission/quest he is going to go following his meeting with Catelyn, or that she returns into Cat's service for the time being, becoming our Riverlands/BWB POV covering the story while Catelyn's Frey revenge/Tully restoration plot unveils. After all, it would be a pity if we did not see how exactly Catelyn takes Riverrun back and kills/executes both Genna and Emmon. Perhaps Jaime will even be forced to watch... Show-wise you may actually be right with your whole 'Cersei is going to return to power' idea. That is, if Dany is going to meet some opposition in the show - which is by no means clear. Considering that they are going with the Dothraki plot we should not exactly expect her to invade Westeros in the beginning of season 6. If I got Varys and Tyrion's big friendship correctly we'll get some Tyrion-and-Varys-are-going-to-happily-rule-Meereen crap first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 How can killing renly be a crime? For gods sake! Stannis is the older brother!!!!The law is not as rigid as that. If they had called a council like Catelyn suggested and Stannis lost the popular vote, Renly would live and they could have both smashed the Lannisters. Then Stannis could go off to do his duty in the north. For the record: he is not dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Mithras, I doubt that Catelyn is going to allow anyone a trial-by-combat. She is Mother Merciless, after all. And if neither of the Freys got one - not even poor Merrett -, why should Jaime? I don't think Brienne is going North in the books, at least not in the near future. Stannis isn't doing anything right now Catelyn wouldn't want him to do - if she knows that he is up there at all - so Brienne would not be allowed to try to take him out while he is fighting the Boltons. However, she may go North later in Catelyn's service - or even more likely, Stannis is going to run south like a whipped cur after the Wall has fallen and tens of thousands of wights have taken the North. I expect that Brienne either joins Jaime on whatever mission/quest he is going to go following his meeting with Catelyn, or that she returns into Cat's service for the time being, becoming our Riverlands/BWB POV covering the story while Catelyn's Frey revenge/Tully restoration plot unveils. After all, it would be a pity if we did not see how exactly Catelyn takes Riverrun back and kills/executes both Genna and Emmon. Perhaps Jaime will even be forced to watch... Why should she give Merrett a trial by combat? She knows that he was guilty. Jaime's case is much more complicated. Brienne might hang out with UnCat involuntarily for a while until the news comes that Stannis is alive and well in the North. Then, she will move North. Besides, I don't think that Brienne will be the one to kill Stannis in the books. He will die in battle against Dany or we all misinterpreted the blue eyed king who cast no shadow. Don't tell me seriously that you believe Brienne will kill Stannis just because D&D made it so in their folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkar Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 One thing that i thought funny was Brienne calling Renly "First of his name" right in front of his older brother. I know that is how Renly referred to himself, but still kind of funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Inchpractice Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 So, in the show, who is actually at Dragonstone right now, with all that dragonglass? I'm assuming dragonglass will feature again after the discussion about it between Jon Snow and Sam in the last episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMR Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Never liked Stannis in the books, never liked him in the show. Finally he's confirmed as mostly irrelevant to the main story. Good riddance, that was a very happy episode for me. But now I'm worried about Jon :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 He is not dead, if something isn't explicitly shown or at least strongly suggested it is not true. Come on, they were more explicit with Sansa rape and Shireen burning. And this is character lots of people hate and pretty straight forward murder, and on HBO, why cut away. If he is dead it breaks all the rules of film-making, it's impossible even for D&D. No one can give me one solid reason why Stannis' death wouldn't be as explicit as Jon's or Trent's if Brienne really killed him. It is so obvious he is spared that I can't even comprehend how someone can think him dead. Oh man will it be interesting seeing Brienne, Pod, Stannis, Theon and Sansa running from Boltons and/or LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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