So who actually has a rightful claim to the Iron Throne now? [SPOILERS]

[mediterraneo]

Hey guys, the only true king of Westeros, if Robert claim was accepted by the realm, as it was, it's Tommen's claim, as trueborn son of Robert's bed and wedding.
No arguments!
Now that no military power supports fancy theories on that, who will bother challenging that?
I could see some realms trying to get away with some grade or sort of authonomy or independence but... Not an alternative, non-Targaryen based legiptimism spawning.

That's not necessarily a good thing for the Lannister clan.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

It's Daenerys, unless Jon or Gendry are somehow legitimized, which I don't think will happen.

Though technically, Tommen is king by right.

[The Tower of Almond Joy]

I doubt that Stannis is dead. I think ending it like they dead left a major cliff hanger so I think that Brienne is prevented from killing Stannis some way. He still has a legit claim to the throne. Dany probably has the most legit claim but am so, well, bored of her already.

According to the HBO episode guide, Stannis is dead. Something to note though, the Boltons did not burn the dead.

[libertylanding]

The Targs always have had a rightful claim to the throne since they were deposed in a coup as opposed to abdicating. Since the Baratheons made a huge mess of it all, the Targs, whether fAegon or Dany, will probably get lots of support from the nobles and peasents who are sick at the mismanagement of the Baratheons.

A claim, sure, but claims don't really matter. Succession law deals with reality. And the reality is Dany has never even set foot in (mainland) Westeros, much less has she ever been queen. (Worth remembering there is no Aegon in the show).

Robert had a claim cuz he had targaryan blood himself tho.

House Baratheon is extinct.

its now obvious that Dany is going to sit on the iron throne. And she has the best claim.

He became king because he was capable of exercising power, i.e., he had the support of the great houses. The question of blood descent only resolved in Robert's favor the question of which of the three rebels would/should accede to the throne.

But technically, who actually has the best claim?

No one. All of Robert's siblings and descendants are dead, both direct and lateral. By law, there is no question of succession: there just isn't one. The throne now belongs to whomever takes it.

And who is in the best position to take it? Obviously, Petyr Baelish.

Dany. If not Dany then the Seven Kingdoms should dissolve into seven Independent states like they originally were.

As far as Robert "Stag Party Bob" Baratheon's bastards go, I think Mya Stone is the most worthy. She is the oldest. However, within the context of ASOIAF I think any boy comes before any girl regardless of birth order.

Edric Storm was acknowledged by Robert, as was Mya. I don't think Robert ever knewor acknowledge GEndry, so I they would both come before Gendry. What would Gendry present when he made his challenge? A lock of hair?

Naw! Dany or nothing!

Acknowledged as his bastard children, but not legitimized. There is no question that a bastard cannot succeed the throne.

I apologize for my lack of Westerosi knowledge and lore, but are we absolutely sure that Robert had no uncles or cousins that carry the name

Baratheon? His nuclear family is dead dead dead, but what about extended family?

Anyhow, in my opinion IF you accept the Seven Kingdoms as legit THEN you have to accept the Targaryen's as the rightful Kings in exile.

Aegon's conquest is the foundation of the Seven Kingdoms. Without an heir to Aegon there is nothing to hold the Seven Kingdoms together.

With Dany alive and well, it's hard to see Bob as anything but a usurper. Tywin went to great lengths to make sure that there were no living Targaryens for precisely that reason. Bob never stopped hunting Targaryens for partly that reason. Part of it was insane Rhaegar vendetta.

Succession right is passed on directly or laterally; it does not extend back in time.

[OldGimletEye]

It's Daenerys, unless Jon or Gendry are somehow legitimized, which I don't think will happen.

Ironically enough, with Stannis and Shireen dead, Dany would be Stannis' heir, wouldn't she? Or am I missing something here.

[The Tower of Almond Joy]

I read/heard that Gendry will be the one who forges Ice back together.

[Hoo]

Tommen right now. Might makes right.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

A claim, sure, but claims don't really matter.

That's not true. Claims are all what matter. Do you think the GC would follow Aegon if he had just presented himself as the son of some blonde guy? They would be winning the same had the boy being some ordinary kid but they know -as well as Varys knows- that only a "good name" moves the people into giving you their loyalty.

[Draco_Dracul]

From the bloodlines we know of? Either Dany or Doran as Robert's claim was legally through his Targaryen heritage.

[OldGimletEye]

That's not true. Claims are all what matter. Do you think the GC would follow Aegon if he had just presented himself as the son of some blonde guy? They would be winning the same had the boy being some ordinary kid but they know -as well as Varys knows- that only a "good name" moves the people into giving you their loyalty.

Yes, legitimacy matters. It is often under appreciated on this forum. Saying that legitimacy doesn't matter is naive. Obviously, rulers resort to coercion to enforce their will. But, ruling through a policy of pure coercision can be costly. Ask the Boltons for instance.

[Langsax]

the ability to take the throne, has always been what determines who has a 'rightful' claim to it. It looks to me, that the throne stays on Toman's head for now.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Yes, legitimacy matters. It is often under appreciated on this forum. Saying that legitimacy doesn't matter is naive. Obviously, rulers resort to coercion to enforce their will. But, ruling through a policy of pure coercision can be costly. Ask the Boltons for instance.

Also the Lannisters. They needed Sansa's name to give Tyrion's kids real legitimacy as rulers of the North.

[Edd fetch me the boo box]

In the books, Brienne has found out who he really is and I'm sure LSH also knows it. I suppose the show could have Melisandre telling Gendry is Robert's son? :dunno: I mean, I think Gendry will play a role.

Mel already did that on the show. She told Gendry his father was Bob.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Dany is the rightful heir, not any bastard by Robert so no Gendry girls, get over it. Dany, on the show is the only one left with the legit claim. Unless Jon is resurrected somehow (miracle needed) and is proven legit to Rheagar and lyanna and NOT SIMPLY THEIR LOVE CHILD BASTARD, then he has the claim. Basically, we are at the end of the line

[Stonehearted Snake]

Dany is the rightful heir, not any bastard by Robert so no Gendry girls, get over it. Dany, on the show is the only one left with the legit claim. Unless Jon is resurrected somehow (miracle needed) and is proven legit to Rheagar and lyanna and NOT SIMPLY THEIR LOVE CHILD BASTARD, then he has the claim. Basically, we are at the end of the line

IIRC, there was a thread in the book section that outlined how Dany is next in line even if you accept that the usurpation. It has to do with the shared Targ ancestry between the Baratheons and Dany, that working your way through the current living relatives you arrive at her, but it was rather complicated and I doubt I could find it. Does anyone else know what I am talking about?

[ChrisSnow77]

Have to make a lot of assumptions. But Dany would be the heir assuming there are no secret Targaryeans and if you still consider them to be the official line of succession.

If you go by Robert's heirs, with no legitimate children, his siblings all dead, it would be his cousins next. Robert's of course related to Aery's and thus his closest living relative would probably be Dany again ironically.

Of course I could be wrong, you'd have to look at the family tree, he may have closer relatives.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Dany. If not Dany then the Seven Kingdoms should dissolve into seven Independent states like they originally were.

As far as Robert "Stag Party Bob" Baratheon's bastards go, I think Mya Stone is the most worthy. She is the oldest. However, within the context of ASOIAF I think any boy comes before any girl regardless of birth order.

Edric Storm was acknowledged by Robert, as was Mya. I don't think Robert ever knewor acknowledge GEndry, so I they would both come before Gendry. What would Gendry present when he made his challenge? A lock of hair?

Naw! Dany or nothing!

Actually, Mya was never formally acknowledged by Robert, it was just common knowledge that she was his daughter. Edric was his only acknowledged bastard, so would be the best candidate for a great council of former Stannis supporters to legitimize.

IIRC, there was a thread in the book section that outlined how Dany is next in line even if you accept that the usurpation. It has to do with the shared Targ ancestry between the Baratheons and Dany, that working your way through the current living relatives you arrive at her, but it was rather complicated and I doubt I could find it. Does anyone else know what I am talking about?

Technically, she should be. But the Lannisters and the Baratheon bannermen are unlikely to accept that, and would rather put one of Tommen's Lannister relatives or Edric Storm on the throne, respectively. Making it war. Martells and possibly Tyrells would support Dany.

[Kingpin]

I am absolutely disgusted by "royalty", noone should be anything just because he was born.

So for me noone ever had or has a "rightful claim".

The individual that can gain it should get it. The individual that has powerful by himself, not through others.

So for me the most capable person is Jaqen H'ghar. Other capable person's are Bronn, Ramsey, Varys and Littlefinger. I most likely forget a few more.

Out of those, Littlefinger is the only one that is somewhat a candidate.

All the rest are someone's daughter, son, wife, husband and are useless otherwise.

[MartelloTorres]

Succession right is passed on directly or laterally; it does not extend back in time.

It can do in Westeros. I can't remember if the show went into it or not, but the heir to the Vale if Sweetrobin should die is his cousin once removed, Harry - his mother's mother was Jon Arryn's sister. Since Sweetrobin doesn't have any siblings or children, the succession takes a step back up the line to Robin's father and his siblings. Harry's mother and grandmother are both dead, so the succession passes to him.

However, looking back up the Baratheon line, it is pretty much extinct, and anyone with a claim would be going back so many generations that everyone who ever met a Baratheon might as well try their luck. In theory, a Great Council would meet to try and find a decent compromise that wouldn't tear the land apart. In practice, of course, it's Dany.

[Guess who's back]

DANY HAS NO FUCKING CLAIM. She lost any right to the throne when Robert became the king. But then again it is not about the claim but about the power to take it.