Cas Stark Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 They did a pretty good job for a while of keeping the Stark vibe going. You heard Arya say things that Syrio told her. Various people all over the place talked about Ned Stark and the Starks. Arya last year starts up the chicken tussle over needled, the sword her brother gave her.... But, that seemed to disappear somewhere last year and was all gone this year. Jon forgot he knows Bran is alive, or has a wolf, or sisters. Sansa might have thought to ask the old lady about Jon. I hates them, precious. The wolves will come again. I dreamed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Me too!!! Yay!! Welcome to the club :cool4: They did a pretty good job for a while of keeping the Stark vibe going. You heard Arya say things that Syrio told her. Various people all over the place talked about Ned Stark and the Starks. Arya last year starts up the chicken tussle over needled, the sword her brother gave her.... But, that seemed to disappear somewhere last year and was all gone this year. Jon forgot he knows Bran is alive, or has a wolf, or sisters. Sansa might have thought to ask the old lady about Jon. I hates them, precious. The wolves will come again. I dreamed it. Good point, but even so, I can't remember the last time Arya mentioned Jon by name? And vice versa? I think it's strange, their obsession with the Lannisters. I would have expected the complete opposite since that's what everyone else seems to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyk65 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 They did a pretty good job for a while of keeping the Stark vibe going. You heard Arya say things that Syrio told her. Various people all over the place talked about Ned Stark and the Starks. Arya last year starts up the chicken tussle over needled, the sword her brother gave her.... But, that seemed to disappear somewhere last year and was all gone this year. Jon forgot he knows Bran is alive, or has a wolf, or sisters. Sansa might have thought to ask the old lady about Jon. I hates them, precious. The wolves will come again. I dreamed it. Spot on. Couldn't say it better myself. The lack of key points essential to the development/our investment in certain characters has been exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follmann Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 - One of the core principles of the story is that every action has a consequence. A big problem with the show has been its eagerness to show us the "shocking moments" that the characters we love bring upon themselves, while more or less omitting the moments of retribution and hope that the books have aplenty. I mentioned the RW as an example earlier. In the books it has many consequences: LSH, the Northern retistance and progressive rallying to Stannis, the tension in Winterfell, Blackfish's defiance. In the show, we got nothing. It seems like they are just streamlining the story in between shockers, because themes are for 8th grade book reports. GoT went from a promising show to a Youtube reaction videos bait. Also, I like referring to Show!Westeros as Worsteros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abandonship Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I just hope they decide to add some Northen Lords. One of my biggest issues with this season was that Sansa was married with no Northen lords present. If that was supposed to solidify the Boltons hold on the North you would think that they would want to invite the Northern Lords.And I still don't understand why Sansa had to be put in the Jeyne Pooles shoes. Or why LF didn't bother to do his research on Ramsay, or when he even started taking people's words as the truth. Especially people he doesn't know anything about. Or why he even thought marrying the real Sansa to Boltons was a good idea. And anyone else remember how he said he was a betting man? He of all people should know how deceptive people can be. this really frustrated me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Porne Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Maybe I'm just slow, but someone is going to have to explain to me what Batfinger's plan was this season or what he gained by giving Sansa to the Boltons that he couldn't have better achieved by keeping her in the Vale and biding his time. Does he even give a fuck about where Sansa is now? Was there any purpose to this beyond allowing D&D to condense characters and locations (and allow for shocking rapez)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Targaryen I Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 You know my rage from the finale has died down a lot. Now that pretty much all of my book favorites are dead/not included on the show and can't be character assassinated anymore I can watch the show like a train wreck. This is coming from someone who still likes Lost btw. If Cersei isn't going to do anything to Dorne it also means all the time they used to design and develop Dorne was a waste like the riverlands post season 3 (but at least the riverlands existed for 3 seasons). We gained Trystane who will probably die next season and we will likely never see Obara, Nym, Bad Pussy, Hotah or another 3 minutes of Siddig trying to salvage the storyline. This does seem to be the case for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I just hope they decide to add some Northen Lords. One of my biggest issues with this season was that Sansa was married with no Northen lords present. If that was supposed to solidify the Boltons hold on the North you would think that they would want to invite the Northern Lords.And I still don't understand why Sansa had to be put in the Jeyne Pooles shoes. Or why LF didn't bother to do his research on Ramsay, or when he even started taking people's words as the truth. Especially people he doesn't know anything about. Or why he even thought marrying the real Sansa to Boltons was a good idea. And anyone else remember how he said he was a betting man? He of all people should know how deceptive people can be. this really frustrated me. Not a northern lord in sight, but somehow they must have found some bannermen somewhere for that gigantic fucking calvalry they sent against poor evil, stupid, incompetent, daughter burning alive for a snow melt not got a single horse left Stannis Baratheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion06 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Maybe I'm just slow, but someone is going to have to explain to me what Batfinger's plan was this season or what he gained by giving Sansa to the Boltons that he couldn't have better achieved by keeping her in the Vale and biding his time. Does he even give a fuck about where Sansa is now? Was there any purpose to this beyond allowing D&D to condense characters and locations (and allow for shocking rapez)? There was no plan because CHAOSH ISH A LADDUH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion06 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yes, I completely agree with you. "Is there anything in this life but grief?" "There's love. There's hope... for some. There's hope that you'll find something worthy... that your life will lead you to some joy... that after everything... you can still be surprised." This is a quote from a very different show (Joss Whedon's "Angel") but ... I think for me it really represents what the spirit of the books is. I know a lot of people think they are incredibly dark and depressing, but I don't see them that way, because I think we are always getting some glimpse of what matters: there is always love in all its myriad forms (e.g. Arya's love for Jon and his for her); there is loyalty (Brienne's, Barristan's; the Manderleys); there is honor and courage in many different forms (Sam and Bran); there is kindness and empathy despite every effort to drive it out (Sansa); there is wisdom (Davos). Theon's and Jaime's storylines, though they may seem to plumb the depths of cruelty, and they do, are also things that make me hopeful: a person isn't defined by his or her worst act, or nullified by suffering, but can regain him/herself. All of these things are in the books, and all of these qualities are what make the realms of men worth saving, and make the story a hopeful one (to me, anyway.) I think the show is far more nihilistic than the books simply because the showrunners don't seem to think about that vein of hopefulness that runs through the books and they think the story is about how "anyone can die" or "honor gets you killed." There is no sense that love is important (sex is important on the show, and often showcased, but love ... not so much.) And consequently, I think Show!Westeros is a terrible, hopeless, depressing place in a way that Book!Westeros isn't. I 100% agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If we do ask to close this thread for length and reopen another one, can it be on the General GoT board so we can talk freely about the whole show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Porne Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 There was no plan because CHAOSH ISH A LADDUH!His motto next season will be changed to "Do I look like a guy with a plan?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abandonship Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Not a northern lord in sight, but somehow they must have found some bannermen somewhere for that gigantic fucking calvalry they sent against poor evil, stupid, incompetent, daughter burning alive for a snow melt not got a single horse left Stannis Baratheon. Let's not even go there. As a person who liked Stannis, I was very disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Reynolds Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yes, I completely agree with you. "Is there anything in this life but grief?" "There's love. There's hope... for some. There's hope that you'll find something worthy... that your life will lead you to some joy... that after everything... you can still be surprised." This is a quote from a very different show (Joss Whedon's "Angel") but ... I think for me it really represents what the spirit of the books is. I know a lot of people think they are incredibly dark and depressing, but I don't see them that way, because I think we are always getting some glimpse of what matters: there is always love in all its myriad forms (e.g. Arya's love for Jon and his for her); there is loyalty (Brienne's, Barristan's; the Manderleys); there is honor and courage in many different forms (Sam and Bran); there is kindness and empathy despite every effort to drive it out (Sansa); there is wisdom (Davos). Theon's and Jaime's storylines, though they may seem to plumb the depths of cruelty, and they do, are also things that make me hopeful: a person isn't defined by his or her worst act, or nullified by suffering, but can regain him/herself. All of these things are in the books, and all of these qualities are what make the realms of men worth saving, and make the story a hopeful one (to me, anyway.) I think the show is far more nihilistic than the books simply because the showrunners don't seem to think about that vein of hopefulness that runs through the books and they think the story is about how "anyone can die" or "honor gets you killed." There is no sense that love is important (sex is important on the show, and often showcased, but love ... not so much.) And consequently, I think Show!Westeros is a terrible, hopeless, depressing place in a way that Book!Westeros isn't. This. 100% this. My biggest complaint about the show, other than the fact that the plot was pieced together by a Powerpoint presentation and then written with the continuity and logic of a daydreaming six year old, is that the Westeros they show is not even close to the one I read. The Westeros we know isn't some bleak hellscape. There is beauty and triumph and hope in the world the books created that the show, for reasons I think we all recognize, chose not to include and this is a real shame. It does it's source material a disservice all the while the fans and critics applaud this travesty as being an improvement. And every time I hear this I simply ask, "How?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Villain Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yes, I completely agree with you. "Is there anything in this life but grief?" "There's love. There's hope... for some. There's hope that you'll find something worthy... that your life will lead you to some joy... that after everything... you can still be surprised." This is a quote from a very different show (Joss Whedon's "Angel") but ... I think for me it really represents what the spirit of the books is. I know a lot of people think they are incredibly dark and depressing, but I don't see them that way, because I think we are always getting some glimpse of what matters: there is always love in all its myriad forms (e.g. Arya's love for Jon and his for her); there is loyalty (Brienne's, Barristan's; the Manderleys); there is honor and courage in many different forms (Sam and Bran); there is kindness and empathy despite every effort to drive it out (Sansa); there is wisdom (Davos). Theon's and Jaime's storylines, though they may seem to plumb the depths of cruelty, and they do, are also things that make me hopeful: a person isn't defined by his or her worst act, or nullified by suffering, but can regain him/herself. All of these things are in the books, and all of these qualities are what make the realms of men worth saving, and make the story a hopeful one (to me, anyway.) I think the show is far more nihilistic than the books simply because the showrunners don't seem to think about that vein of hopefulness that runs through the books and they think the story is about how "anyone can die" or "honor gets you killed." There is no sense that love is important (sex is important on the show, and often showcased, but love ... not so much.) And consequently, I think Show!Westeros is a terrible, hopeless, depressing place in a way that Book!Westeros isn't. This is a sensational post. Thank you for creating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It does it's source material a disservice all the while the fans and critics applaud this travesty as being an improvement. And every time I hear this I simply ask, "How?" Agree. Until now, no one has been able to say why the show is better. "The show is better because Aegon is a filler" is not a valid argument "The show is better because Quentyn is boring" is not a valid argument either. I mean, first, what is in the show to compare? Aegon is invading the Stormlands to make a claim. What is in the show that is a potentially more interesting plot or arc? Even the only battle the season showed (besides Hardhome) was decided off screen. And if we talk about boring travelling, what storyline so far is more interesting or more satisfactory than Quentyn Martell going to Dany to present Dorne to her? I am not saying Quentyn's arc is WOW!. I'm just asking what storyline in the show is better than Quentyn. :dunno: Because saying "the show is better because it was not included" means nothing at all without anything to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Let's not even go there. As a person who liked Stannis, I was very disappointed.I didn't like Stannis that much in the books but goodness me! What a ridiculous waste of a rich character! Judging solely by the merits of the show, Stannis' only reason for existing has been to bring Melisansbra and Davis to the Wall. Oh, and to defeat the wildlings. Otherwise, show!Stannis has achieved absolutely nothing as far as I can make out since the end of season 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Otherwise, show!Stannis has achieved absolutely nothing as far as I can make out since the end of season 2. Being objective, Satannis could have been cut from the show and nothing could have happened at all. Replace his men with some Northern lords sending help and we're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Porne Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Agree. Until now, no one has been able to say why the show is better. "The show is better because Aegon is a filler" is not a valid argument"The show is better because Quentyn is boring" is not a valid argument either. I mean, first, what is in the show to compare? Aegon is invading the Stormlands to make a claim. What is in the show that is a potentially more interesting plot or arc? Even the only battle the season showed (besides Hardhome) was decided off screen. And if we talk about boring travelling, what storyline so far is more interesting or more satisfactory than Quentyn Martell going to Dany to present Dorne to her? I am not saying Quentyn's arc is WOW!. I'm just asking what storyline in the show is better than Quentyn. :dunno: Because saying "the show is better because it was not included" means nothing at all without anything to compare.No one who thinks the show is good has any right to complain about "filler" in the novels. I guess I can understand someone thinking Jaime's and Brienne's stories I'm Feast are boring (though I disagree), but instead we get...the slap game and "bad pussy" in Dorne? And Brienne camped out watching for a candle day and night all damn season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsOfBrains Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Anybody re watch the episode? It's actually worse the second time around. The bright points (walk of shame namely) felt almost comical with the floating Cersei bobble head not quite maintaining perfect orbit above a body with breasts notably larger than the Cerseis. My favorite part of the entire show was when Podrick picks up that battle axe. I am assuming it's Podrick who rescues reek and Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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