Rant and Rave Without Repercussion 3 (Book Spoilers)

[Le Cygne]

Unfortunately I think the show is way beyond redeeming at this point for me. We may get moments of brilliance (or at least competence) here and there, but too many damning mistakes have been made, too many characters and plots ruined. You can't come back from a clusterf#ck like this season...although I'm afraid we may look back on it fondly when Season 6 comes around.

The complaints I had about season 2 were actually similar, just not as many. They messed up characterization and story then, too. But there was still something to salvage. Now there's nothing. But I wish I'd stopped watching then.

[OldGimletEye]

I'm in til the end. Not only because it's highly amusing, I'm sure the brain power used to spot the various errors, flaws, plot holes and logic gaps wards off dementia. Also, there is no guarantee when the author will finish his book. So, it's all there is.

I'd put the odds of D&D taking away anything positive from the criticism of this season at about 30%. They seem like the type who disdain their critics, so my guess is they'll go 'nya nya' the last episode was the highest rated ever, and continue on down the bad pussy road.

I would like watching better if it was part of Mystery Science Theater or an episode of Beavis and Butthead, since its becoming increasingly hard to take seriously anyway. Uh, uh, bad pussy is cool.

[Balerion06]

A bunch of people on this board and many others talk about how Game of Thrones isn't schlock like Starz's Spartacus. I don't know why people continually compare the two, since they have nothing in common beyond a blood&boobs quota and a quasi-historical setting. If I had to guess, it's because the two shows aired around the same time up until 2013.

Incoming rant:

While Spartacus may have had an even higher (almost nonsensical) blood&boobs quota, and while its pilot may rank among the worst hours of television ever, it actually told a really good story. It had themes and consistent characterization and good character development, it made you invest in what was happening to its characters, it had moral ambiguity, and its shocking moments and twists were organic and felt earned.

(Oh, and it had a pretty tragic deconstruction of the Rape as Empowerment trope)

You could tell it had professional writers and storytellers behind it. Even something as depressing and nihilistic as the failure of the slave rebellion was injected with hope, levity and love. Because there are other feelings than moping in a corner and wanting to slit your wrist!

And at least the writers had enough confidence and integrity to admit that the show had little historical accuracy, and that they were going for a hyper-stylized retelling of the basic story. No nonsensical justification that the "first and last scenes are historically accurate, so we're being faithful to history" :rolleyes:

Ugh, this shitfest of a season now makes me want to go back and watch Spartacus. And I never thought I'd say that when speaking about an adaptation of Martin's work.

[Follmann]

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aWOZOB3_460s.jpg

Just... :lol:

[TheCasualObserver]

After a few days reflection, I've realized what this show has become. You know how some films and tv shows just give the audience what they want, whether it services the story or not? GOT is like that.

It's a crowd displeaser.

So much of GOT's appeal has come through supposedly confounding the expectations of its audience. Ned. The Red Wedding. Oberyn. These were big shock moments and have become an indelible part of how people watch the show. It's supposed to make you shriek. People watch episodes with their friends and upload their over the top reactions as the horrible things happen. The wider world's understanding of the show and GRRM by proxy is that killing off popular characters is what makes GOT so different.

"It's horrible, but I can't stop watching it!"

"If you think this has a happy ending, haven't been paying attention!"

"Guns don't kill people, GRRM kills people!"

These mantras are repeated on a hundred online articles, propagated through memes and endlessly discussed on blogs and tumblr.

Is that what ASOIAF is to you? Because it's not to me. Unlike D and D, the Red Wedding was never the moment I fell in love with the series. It was the world, the story and the palpably human characters making mistakes like real people, with the results being... more violent than we are used to.

But now we're in AFFC and ADWD territory and GOT is more popular than ever. So what did D and D do? They gave the audience what they want, without paying attention to the consistency of the characters or the plot.

Joffrey was hugely popular. Everyone loved to hate him. But with him dead the show needed an even worse character to torment Sansa Stark, because that's what the audience is used to and demonstrably like. So Sansa is shipped off to Winterfell, even though it makes no sense for her, LF or the Boltons.

Oberyn was hugely popular. A revenge obsessed sexy guy with an accent. But with him dead the show needed someone else to plug the "sexy exotic character" gap they learnt the audience craved from last season. Enter the Sand Snakes, who fill the exact same role.

Jon dying is shocking, so of course it was going in, but without all that pesky "context". Arya kills Meryn trant brutally, because that's what she did to bad people in earlier seasons and what people liked. Margery was a sexpot, Olenna was quick witted, LF did some politicking which didn't make sense; all because that's what happened before and was liked by an ever expanding audience.

People like youtube videos of fans reacting to the show? Lets burn Shireen! Brienne is a badass? Lets have her kill Stannis, even if it doesn't make sense!

There's no point complaining about the show relying on shock factor - that's what's making them all the money. You know what doesn't make money? Moral ambiguity. It's good that Stannis dies, because he's a baddie who burnt his daughter and Brienne is a goodie. Those homophobic sparrows make poor innocent Cersei parade through the streets of KL. Can't wait for them to get their comeuppance! Tyrion is a really cool guy who can sort out Mereen, Dany does stuff with dragons, Jorah is the tireless good guy who can't catch a break.

Season 5 wasn't really an adaption of AFFC and ADWD at all. It was a rehash of everything we've seen before that made HBO a ton of money. And if you think season 6 will be any different, I've got bad news for you - 8 million viewers saw episode ten. This isn't an aberration for D and D... it's the benchmark.

[R4W13Y]

Here's what I got, nothing for Jon. No "Jon" for Arya, but last season, she said "My brother gave me that sword" and then asked to go to the Wall. Then this season, she couldn't part with Needle, because Needle was Jon Snow's smile revenge. They could have played that up, but instead of his last thoughts about Arya, it was Olly.

I compiled book quotes for various characters, the people they thought of the most, when they were apart, like Arya and Jon, Sansa and Sandor, Jaime and Brienne, and so on, and came up with over a dozen times, close to that for each. That's the way GRRM does it, he hammers it in, over and over again. Ah, this must matter.

Show? Out of sight, out of mind.

Jaime and Brienne example. All we got this season was the Tarth gaze. They had to make Brienne all about Renly because they were going to have her kill Stannis. But in the books, the Renly thoughts usually gave way to Jaime thoughts. She would picture Jaime doing something Renly did, like putting on the rainbow cloak in her dream.

Here's a good one:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/63197-odds-of-jaime-and-brienne-ending-up-together/page-13#entry3372068

Thank you!! That's really helpful. Now we need to do the same for the show.

Well, this is Cersei we're talking about here. And I don't understand why she wouldn't do anything since she threatened to burn their city to the ground before Jaime went on his 'diplomatic mission'. Nope, it's just easier to blame it all on the Imp. :rolleyes:

Um...That's exactly my point? We are in agreement here?

[Dolorous Gabe]

Just finished reading Cheb and Julia's 'butchered plotlines' piece.

Bravo. A fine read and lots of excellent analysis :bowdown:

[kissdbyfire]

Genuinely think Septa Spoonella and her Bell of Shame was the best thing to happen this season.

Friend of mine was talking about ComicCon and how if D&D are there the booksnobs (he meant this in a nice way, btw) have a choice before them. Do they do the hissing crowd approach, al a the stupid execution scene?Do they ShameNun them? Either option would be something I'd pay money to see

Maybe a lil bit of both?

'Hisssssssssssss! Shame! Shame! Shame! Hisssssssssss'!

:laugh:

[Ludo Kressh]

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aWOZOB3_460s.jpg

Just... :lol:

:lmao:

[Ser Quork]

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aWOZOB3_460s.jpg

Just... :lol:

*blinks* :lmao:

After a few days reflection, I've realized what this show has become. You know how some films and tv shows just give the audience what they want, whether it services the story or not? GOT is like that.

It's a crowd displeaser.

So much of GOT's appeal has come through supposedly confounding the expectations of its audience. Ned. The Red Wedding. Oberyn. These were big shock moments and have become an indelible part of how people watch the show. It's supposed to make you shriek. People watch episodes with their friends and upload their over the top reactions as the horrible things happen. The wider world's understanding of the show and GRRM by proxy is that killing off popular characters is what makes GOT so different.

"It's horrible, but I can't stop watching it!"

"If you think this has a happy ending, haven't been paying attention!"

"Guns don't kill people, GRRM kills people!"

These mantras are repeated on a hundred online articles, propagated through memes and endlessly discussed on blogs and tumblr.

Is that what ASOIAF is to you? Because it's not to me. Unlike D and D, the Red Wedding was never the moment I fell in love with the series. It was the world, the story and the palpably human characters making mistakes like real people, with the results being... more violent than we are used to.

But now we're in AFFC and ADWD territory and GOT is more popular than ever. So what did D and D do? They gave the audience what they want, without paying attention to the consistency of the characters or the plot.

Joffrey was hugely popular. Everyone loved to hate him. But with him dead the show needed an even worse character to torment Sansa Stark, because that's what the audience is used to and demonstrably like. So Sansa is shipped off to Winterfell, even though it makes no sense for her, LF or the Boltons.

Oberyn was hugely popular. A revenge obsessed sexy guy with an accent. But with him dead the show needed someone else to plug the "sexy exotic character" gap they learnt the audience craved from last season. Enter the Sand Snakes, who fill the exact same role.

Jon dying is shocking, so of course it was going in, but without all that pesky "context". Arya kills Meryn trant brutally, because that's what she did to bad people in earlier seasons and what people liked. Margery was a sexpot, Olenna was quick witted, LF did some politicking which didn't make sense; all because that's what happened before and was liked by an ever expanding audience.

People like youtube videos of fans reacting to the show? Lets burn Shireen! Brienne is a badass? Lets have her kill Stannis, even if it doesn't make sense!

There's no point complaining about the show relying on shock factor - that's what's making them all the money. You know what doesn't make money? Moral ambiguity. It's good that Stannis dies, because he's a baddie who burnt his daughter and Brienne is a goodie. Those homophobic sparrows make poor innocent Cersei parade through the streets of KL. Can't wait for them to get their comeuppance! Tyrion is a really cool guy who can sort out Mereen, Dany does stuff with dragons, Jorah is the tireless good guy who can't catch a break.

Season 5 wasn't really an adaption of AFFC and ADWD at all. It was a rehash of everything we've seen before that made HBO a ton of money. And if you think season 6 will be any different, I've got bad news for you - 8 million viewers saw episode ten. This isn't an aberration for D and D... it's the benchmark.

:agree:

[Ludo Kressh]

Um...That's exactly my point? We are in agreement here?

Yes, I was just adding about the viper part with Jaime; she seemed so gung ho to destroy them over a threat, but now that her daughter's actually dead she doesn't want to exact vengeance against those who killed her. But I can't logically see that happening, but show logic, on the other hand... I guess they just want to beat us over the head with how much she hates Tyrion.

[OldGimletEye]

<snip>

Agree. There is just so much more to ASOIAF than its "shocking" moments.

[The Prince of Porne]

Yes, I was just adding about the viper part with Jaime; she seemed so gung ho to destroy them over a threat, but now that her daughter's actually dead she doesn't want to exact vengeance against those who killed her. But I can't logically see that happening, but show logic, on the other hand... I guess they just want to beat us over the head with how much she hates Tyrion.

Which might make some sense if they hadn't almost completely removed her rising paranoia and obsession with Tyrion this season, but throwing it in now feels really random.

But like you said, show logic.

[kissdbyfire]

After a few days reflection, I've realized what this show has become. You know how some films and tv shows just give the audience what they want, whether it services the story or not? GOT is like that.

It's a crowd displeaser.

So much of GOT's appeal has come through supposedly confounding the expectations of its audience. Ned. The Red Wedding. Oberyn. These were big shock moments and have become an indelible part of how people watch the show. It's supposed to make you shriek. People watch episodes with their friends and upload their over the top reactions as the horrible things happen. The wider world's understanding of the show and GRRM by proxy is that killing off popular characters is what makes GOT so different.

"It's horrible, but I can't stop watching it!"

"If you think this has a happy ending, haven't been paying attention!"

"Guns don't kill people, GRRM kills people!"

These mantras are repeated on a hundred online articles, propagated through memes and endlessly discussed on blogs and tumblr.

Is that what ASOIAF is to you? Because it's not to me. Unlike D and D, the Red Wedding was never the moment I fell in love with the series. It was the world, the story and the palpably human characters making mistakes like real people, with the results being... more violent than we are used to.

But now we're in AFFC and ADWD territory and GOT is more popular than ever. So what did D and D do? They gave the audience what they want, without paying attention to the consistency of the characters or the plot.

Joffrey was hugely popular. Everyone loved to hate him. But with him dead the show needed an even worse character to torment Sansa Stark, because that's what the audience is used to and demonstrably like. So Sansa is shipped off to Winterfell, even though it makes no sense for her, LF or the Boltons.

Oberyn was hugely popular. A revenge obsessed sexy guy with an accent. But with him dead the show needed someone else to plug the "sexy exotic character" gap they learnt the audience craved from last season. Enter the Sand Snakes, who fill the exact same role.

Jon dying is shocking, so of course it was going in, but without all that pesky "context". Arya kills Meryn trant brutally, because that's what she did to bad people in earlier seasons and what people liked. Margery was a sexpot, Olenna was quick witted, LF did some politicking which didn't make sense; all because that's what happened before and was liked by an ever expanding audience.

People like youtube videos of fans reacting to the show? Lets burn Shireen! Brienne is a badass? Lets have her kill Stannis, even if it doesn't make sense!

There's no point complaining about the show relying on shock factor - that's what's making them all the money. You know what doesn't make money? Moral ambiguity. It's good that Stannis dies, because he's a baddie who burnt his daughter and Brienne is a goodie. Those homophobic sparrows make poor innocent Cersei parade through the streets of KL. Can't wait for them to get their comeuppance! Tyrion is a really cool guy who can sort out Mereen, Dany does stuff with dragons, Jorah is the tireless good guy who can't catch a break.

Season 5 wasn't really an adaption of AFFC and ADWD at all. It was a rehash of everything we've seen before that made HBO a ton of money. And if you think season 6 will be any different, I've got bad news for you - 8 million viewers saw episode ten. This isn't an aberration for D and D... it's the benchmark.

Excellent points.

What hope is there when even the actors think that 'shock' and 'anyone can die' are what the story is all about?

And no, I don't blame the actors, they're repeating what they're being spoonfed but it's so sad to think of all the potential wasted.

Vulture: Well, she hasn't been burned at the stake. She doesn't even go on this journey with Stannis she stays behind at Castle Black. But perhaps this is a fate George R.R. Martin has planned for her in The Winds of Winter? So far, though, with the published works, Shireen is safe.

Cunningham: Well, this is the thing now: As we leave the books behind, everybody's going to be in the dark. So one of the things that I love is when friends or acquaintances go, "Tell me about this show," if they haven't seen it. It's a difficult thing because you can't describe it in two sentences. It doesn't do it justice. So what I normally do is I whip out my phone and show them the Red Wedding reactions on YouTube. There's one that's six minutes and five seconds long that I've shown many times. So while my friends are looking at that, they're going, "You've got to be fucking kidding me," because all these guys and gals are pulling blankets up and screaming at the television. And I go, "So that's the reason you should watch the show, because if a piece of drama has that effect on you, it's worth watching."

http://www.vulture.com/2015/06/game-of-thrones-liam-cunningham-on-being-sent-away-by-stannis.html

[Chebyshov]

Sometimes, and this is really awful of me, I wonder if people are just too afraid to criticize the show because they're afraid of looking stupid or "wimpy" or something? Sort of, they have to convince themselves every single shocking moment was "omg so cool" because they felt that way about past shocking moments so isn't that what they like? Or the fact that there's just enough political speak that masquerades as sounding intelligent (sometimes) so that if they don't understand something, they're worried about looking stupid, despite the fact that it's the plot that's totally idiotic?

Idk, I was just thinking about how there are politicians that are what stupid people think smart people sound like. That maybe this is what people think good TV looks like, and because of all the positive reviews (97% on Rotten Tomatoes this year? really?) going against the grain and saying it's bad could mean they'll be accused of "not getting it."

[Red Helm]

Sometimes, and this is really awful of me, I wonder if people are just too afraid to criticize the show because they're afraid of looking stupid or "wimpy" or something? Sort of, they have to convince themselves every single shocking moment was "omg so cool" because they felt that way about past shocking moments so isn't that what they like? Or the fact that there's just enough political speak that masquerades as sounding intelligent (sometimes) so that if they don't understand something, they're worried about looking stupid, despite the fact that it's the plot that's totally idiotic?

Idk, I was just thinking about how there are politicians that are what stupid people think smart people sound like. That maybe this is what people think good TV looks like, and because of all the positive reviews (97% on Rotten Tomatoes this year? really?) going against the grain and saying it's bad could mean they'll be accused of "not getting it."

Perhaps overstating it somewhat, though the last part seems correct given the half insane rationalisations the fans give for the bad writing complete with diatribe and personal insults, etc. to those bringing these flaws up in the first place. However, I am not sure how things are in the US. Fans seem to have that impact, like with Nolan's films. And I recall being told of the admins of this site getting such backflash for criticising Pod and Whores: Whacktastic Willy Adventures.

[Cas Stark]

I don't know, maybe it's more like when your team does something dirty, but you choose to interpret that it was within the rules? Once most people have a rooting interest, they stick with their team.

How many people have made up reasons why "ALL THE HORSES ARE GONE" and next thing we know "Lady Mel was seen riding away" is not an error, not a mistake, it means nothing, and even if it is, it's no big deal, get over it and stop nitpicking. It was literally in the next scene in the most expensive show in history?

This is people totally suspending all critical thinking. They meant war horses. She had her horse somewhere else. Stop bothering me.

And this is an incontrovertible error, like the necklaces, it's not an opinion, like the opinion that Stannis was turned into a fool who couldn't command a single combat unit, it's a mistake, right there on the screen. No way around it without massive rationalization. My team doesn't cheat. The refs are not fair.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Sometimes, and this is really awful of me, I wonder if people are just too afraid to criticize the show because they're afraid of looking stupid or "wimpy" or something? Sort of, they have to convince themselves every single shocking moment was "omg so cool" because they felt that way about past shocking moments so isn't that what they like? Or the fact that there's just enough political speak that masquerades as sounding intelligent (sometimes) so that if they don't understand something, they're worried about looking stupid, despite the fact that it's the plot that's totally idiotic?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Anybody re watch the episode?

It's actually worse the second time around.

The bright points (walk of shame namely) felt almost comical with the floating Cersei bobble head not quite maintaining perfect orbit above a body with breasts notably larger than the Cerseis.

My favorite part of the entire show was when Podrick picks up that battle axe. I am assuming it's Podrick who rescues reek and Sansa.

LOL I haven't rewatched yet, but I plan to do so.......just because I am sure there are stupid little touches that I missed in the first go round. I am SURE that the Cersei walk will look worse on a second peek, with the head bobble on my mind. Of course Podrick is bring St Tyrion's battle ax with him....the better to save St. Tyrion's 'wife' with, I presume? I thought of THAT little tidbit on the first watch, though.

I may brave that rewatch sometime today.

[R4W13Y]

During the FTW scene, it's so odd... Jon just stands there like an idiot waiting to be stabbed over and over again. Why?

I know there's not much of a reaction from him in the book, but it felt very different. And I don't think it's just the poor development of that plot and lack of tension.

He fights back and even hurts some of the brothers, so yeah he was definitely a little more proactive than just standing there and taking it.

Dorne looked good on screen? I guess the Water Garden set was pretty, but other than that...to each his own.

I agree Hardhome was cool, but I'd rather have had it happen off-screen like in the book, with ominous reports coming to Jon at Castle Black and raising the tension ("There are dead things in the woods. Dead things in the water" - *gets chills*) and actually gotten a decent Battle of Ice. But maybe that's just me.

Yeah Hardhome was fine, but I agree, I would have much rather had creepy letters and the BoI instead (you know, and actual canon battle).

I saw that scene as a foreshadowing of how Season 5 would go, with Orson in the role of D&D and the beetles being everything good about the books.

:lol: so I guess I was wrong - there WAS a point to that scene.

Unfortunately I think the show is way beyond redeeming at this point for me. We may get moments of brilliance (or at least competence) here and there, but too many damning mistakes have been made, too many characters and plots ruined. You can't come back from a clusterf#ck like this season...although I'm afraid we may look back on it fondly when Season 6 comes around.

I agree. Like the WoS was genuinely the only part of this season I thought was pretty great, and Hardhome was okay, but other than that, nothing. There's no way they can redeem themselves at this point, it's too far gone. Especially because now they don't have any books, so I can't even imagine the shitfest it's going to be next season. I'll still be apart of these threads though to live vicariously through those who are still watching :)

I'm in til the end. Not only because it's highly amusing, I'm sure the brain power used to spot the various errors, flaws, plot holes and logic gaps wards off dementia. Also, there is no guarantee when the author will finish his book. So, it's all there is.

I'd put the odds of D&D taking away anything positive from the criticism of this season at about 30%. They seem like the type who disdain their critics, so my guess is they'll go 'nya nya' the last episode was the highest rated ever, and continue on down the bad pussy road.

:lol: I love your perspective!

The complaints I had about season 2 were actually similar, just not as many. They messed up characterization and story then, too. But there was still something to salvage. Now there's nothing. But I wish I'd stopped watching then.

Same, Season 2 was disappointing for me and when I started to see the cracks, but it obviously was still good enough that overall it was a nice season (Blackwater is pretty flawless). But, that is when Talisa was introduced... :tantrum:

Honestly I should have stopped after Season 3. Though Season 2 disappointed me in some ways, overall I liked it. Season 3 was just underwhelming, which was sad and confusing because of how amazing ASOS is. And I hated Season 4 for the most part and was definitely going to stop then until I realized I really wanted to see FTW, Daznak's pit, and the WoS, so I came back - but now I've finally learned my lesson! Even when they are adapting a flawless, awesome piece from the books, they now manage to find a way to screw it up (except the WoS, which they actually did well on).

Anyway, I'm done rambling :) Basically, I agree, I should have stopped after Season 2. I haven't gotten much enjoyment from it since then.

I would like watching better if it was part of Mystery Science Theater or an episode of Beavis and Butthead, since its becoming increasingly hard to take seriously anyway. Uh, uh, bad pussy is cool.

I wish I had a group of friends that hated the show...I would watch with them so we could drink and eat and snark and laugh. It would be fun. But I really only have my boyfriend to watch with me and he's so disillusioned and bored with the show he just doesn't care.

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aWOZOB3_460s.jpg

Just... :lol:

:lmao:

After a few days reflection, I've realized what this show has become. You know how some films and tv shows just give the audience what they want, whether it services the story or not? GOT is like that.

It's a crowd displeaser.

So much of GOT's appeal has come through supposedly confounding the expectations of its audience. Ned. The Red Wedding. Oberyn. These were big shock moments and have become an indelible part of how people watch the show. It's supposed to make you shriek. People watch episodes with their friends and upload their over the top reactions as the horrible things happen. The wider world's understanding of the show and GRRM by proxy is that killing off popular characters is what makes GOT so different.

"It's horrible, but I can't stop watching it!"

"If you think this has a happy ending, haven't been paying attention!"

"Guns don't kill people, GRRM kills people!"

These mantras are repeated on a hundred online articles, propagated through memes and endlessly discussed on blogs and tumblr.

Is that what ASOIAF is to you? Because it's not to me. Unlike D and D, the Red Wedding was never the moment I fell in love with the series. It was the world, the story and the palpably human characters making mistakes like real people, with the results being... more violent than we are used to.

But now we're in AFFC and ADWD territory and GOT is more popular than ever. So what did D and D do? They gave the audience what they want, without paying attention to the consistency of the characters or the plot.

Joffrey was hugely popular. Everyone loved to hate him. But with him dead the show needed an even worse character to torment Sansa Stark, because that's what the audience is used to and demonstrably like. So Sansa is shipped off to Winterfell, even though it makes no sense for her, LF or the Boltons.

Oberyn was hugely popular. A revenge obsessed sexy guy with an accent. But with him dead the show needed someone else to plug the "sexy exotic character" gap they learnt the audience craved from last season. Enter the Sand Snakes, who fill the exact same role.

Jon dying is shocking, so of course it was going in, but without all that pesky "context". Arya kills Meryn trant brutally, because that's what she did to bad people in earlier seasons and what people liked. Margery was a sexpot, Olenna was quick witted, LF did some politicking which didn't make sense; all because that's what happened before and was liked by an ever expanding audience.

People like youtube videos of fans reacting to the show? Lets burn Shireen! Brienne is a badass? Lets have her kill Stannis, even if it doesn't make sense!

There's no point complaining about the show relying on shock factor - that's what's making them all the money. You know what doesn't make money? Moral ambiguity. It's good that Stannis dies, because he's a baddie who burnt his daughter and Brienne is a goodie. Those homophobic sparrows make poor innocent Cersei parade through the streets of KL. Can't wait for them to get their comeuppance! Tyrion is a really cool guy who can sort out Mereen, Dany does stuff with dragons, Jorah is the tireless good guy who can't catch a break.

Season 5 wasn't really an adaption of AFFC and ADWD at all. It was a rehash of everything we've seen before that made HBO a ton of money. And if you think season 6 will be any different, I've got bad news for you - 8 million viewers saw episode ten. This isn't an aberration for D and D... it's the benchmark.

:bowdown:

Yes, I was just adding about the viper part with Jaime; she seemed so gung ho to destroy them over a threat, but now that her daughter's actually dead she doesn't want to exact vengeance against those who killed her. But I can't logically see that happening, but show logic, on the other hand... I guess they just want to beat us over the head with how much she hates Tyrion.

Yup, I agree.

Which might make some sense if they hadn't almost completely removed her rising paranoia and obsession with Tyrion this season, but throwing it in now feels really random.

But like you said, show logic.

Exactly! This is another example (as I mentioned earlier) of them following a "book plot" or "book characterization" that no longer makes sense in the context of the show because of the changes they've made.