Lady Blackmont Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 So you're admitting to have eaten puppies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 ...because DANY! She must have a cause, and the people she's fighting can't just be slavers; they have to be indistinguishable from one another, and they must all be horrible. What I don't get is why the slaves in Essos are an indecipherable mob, too. They're just victimized worshipers of their beloved mommy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Doesn't tell much. Well, to make it quick: Killing people for being slavers is not okay. They were raised in this system and do not know it is a bad thing. It's the same as killing Dany for being queen and not accepting democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Aragorn did indeed warn the orcs at Helms Deep to flee. And Gandalf said "As for me, I pity even his slaves." It's quite possible that Dany and her supporters will carry out genocide in Slavers Bay, in response to rebellion and invasion, but I doubt if we should rejoice in it. But the orcs would just keep coming forever, they will never stop unless someone ends them. Just like Sauron, just like the White Walkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Exactly, this would be like exterminating all Germans in concentration camps after the second world war, or any Japanese soldiers who worked in a PoW camp. And these people were arguably far worse than the slavers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Doesn't tell much. Well, to make it quick: Killing people for being slavers is not okay. They were raised in this system and do not know it is a bad thing. It's the same as killing Dany for being queen and not accepting democracy. If your choices are 1. Let the slavers live and let them keep on with their kidnapping and murdering of whoever they feel like 2. kill the 18% of Slaver's Bay ruling class and end the horrific cycle I choose #2. I really dont care where anyone is from. The south needed General Sherman to stop what it was doing. SB needs Dany to stop it's cycle of slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Exactly, this would be like exterminating all Germans in concentration camps after the second world war, or any Japanese soldiers who worked in a PoW camp.And these people were arguably far worse than the slavers.It would not be like exterminating them after the war, it would be like exterminating them during the war to stop them from exterminating Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 If your choices are 1. Let the slavers live and let them keep on with their kidnapping and murdering of whoever they feel like 2. kill the 18% of Slaver's Bay ruling class and end the horrific cycle I choose #2. I really dont care where anyone is from. The south needed General Sherman to stop what it was doing. SB needs Dany to stop it's cycle of slavery. You can do that without eliminating the people root and branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think one of those things will happen : * Dany won't exterminate the whole slavers class as she won't return to Slaver's bay * Dany won't exterminate the whole slavers class as situation will be stabilized before she returns (eventually the carnage would have been already done by the Shavepate or others, who Dany will punish) * Dany will exterminate them, realise what she did, turn back against her dragon side and plant trees for the rest of her life, probably staying in Essos * Dany will exterminate them, indulge in the idea it was just, and do even worse things in Westeros There's no way knowing Martin he'll make any character have a free pass for genocide (or even classicide).Whoever think Dany should kill all the ghiscari nobility should also be ready for mad queen 2.0 scenario.Personnally I hope for one of the two first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 But the orcs would just keep coming forever, they will never stop unless someone ends them. Just like Sauron, just like the White Walkers. I guess Robert was justified in trying to kill off all Targs then, I mean they'll just keep on coming as all known Targs have attempted to do thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I guess Robert was justified in trying to kill off all Targs then, I mean they'll just keep on coming as all known Targs have attempted to do thus far. That comparison makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Doesn't tell much. Well, to make it quick: Killing people for being slavers is not okay. They were raised in this system and do not know it is a bad thing. It's the same as killing Dany for being queen and not accepting democracy.Wise words. Everybody here is against slavery and I am perfectly fine with Dany abolishing the system of slavery in Essos (which she doesnt do, see Astapor post-massacre, Yunkai or here later actions in Mereen) but this does not justify mass murder. This is my fundamental philosophic believe. Some people might prefer the Ghengiz Khan approach, I prefer the Mandela approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 You can do that without eliminating the people root and branch. ok agreed, by exterminate I really meant; beat them in a war. Exterminate their way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It would not be like exterminating them after the war, it would be like exterminating them during the war to stop them from exterminating Jews. Right, because the ends justify the means. Killing thousands so... hundreds of thousands aren't in slavery... That sounds ethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It would not be like exterminating them after the war, it would be like exterminating them during the war to stop them from exterminating Jews. Which, as history proved, wasn't necessary. So with this example you just disproved your own theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 That comparison makes no sense. Saying 2. kill the 18% of Slaver's Bay ruling class and end the horrific cycle I choose #2. I really dont care where anyone is from. is like saying killing all the Targs. Same logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Right, because the ends justify the means. Killing thousands so... hundreds of thousands aren't in slavery... That sounds ethical. They had their chance to stop peacefully, they chose slavery. Sucks for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Indeed. Furthermore, there is another feature of these non-moustach-twirling Ghiscari - they feature prominently in Barristan's, Quentyn's and Tyrion's chapters. The Green Grace? The Shavepate? Hizdahr? The old Yunkish Commander? The Yellow Whale? The Hero? Are they all ridiculous, onedimensional puppy eaters? Which by the way is a lot less distasteful as sow's vulva, something the Romans were mad for. As I said it gets a bit better in Dance. Astapor is really the height of the ridiculousness. But nonetheless, those characters don't do much to make things morally ambiguous and three dimensional. Hizdahr is slimy at best, The Green Grace is probably the Harpy (and if she isn't, Hizdahr or the Shavepate are). Yezzan has very little development. As for the puppy delicacy, I'm not saying it isn't possible for that to be a delicacy. Or even that eating puppies is necessarily morally wrong. No more than eating any other animal is. But Ghiscar is not a real culture, it was made by an author. It's not just a coincidence that they eat puppies, Martin clearly put that little detail in (a long with so many others) so we'd have a visceral reaction and hate them as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I guess Robert was justified in trying to kill off all Targs then, I mean they'll just keep on coming as all known Targs have attempted to do thus far. Now we're getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 That comparison makes no sense. Because why? You like some of the characters included in that group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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