Ser Belwas The Strong Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I admit that I am very bad at detecting characters' relationship, to the point of me almost priding myself in understanding that Connington had a crush on Rhaegar. I have also not watched a single episode of A Game of Thrones and have yet come to hate the show. The Renly/Loras relationship didn't jump to me in the first read. Only after the show i started to notice the hints on the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuvuuia Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I admit that when reading I actually picture many of their voices as disney characters. Try it out. It's fun. Cersei = Grimhilda Margaery = Snow White Arianne = Jasmine Sansa = Ariel Arya = Arthur (wart) hehe Olenna = Ursula imagines terrible voiceover of the bootleg vhs we had during my childhood, runs away in terror Actually, I never tried to imagine characters voices, unless there is something special about them like with Lady Stoneheart or Vargo Hoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Darry Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I would hate hate hate A+J=C+J reveal. I still think GRRM might go with it. Some say that timeline doesn't allow it, but it takes just one sentence in TWOW or ADOS to change that. I would hate it because it would show that history doesn't repeat itself because of the system or human nature, but because the same families are in power and that the main problem is only in genes and nature and not also in nurture, feudalism, human nature etc… For me it would ruin the grey nature of the books and its complexity. It would show that the main problem of the whole series were Targs in power and that Targs are simply black and white. It would appear that Cersei is the way she is, because she's a secret Targ, meaning it was always just about her blood. And that if Robert would got rid of all dragonspawn things would be better. And that desire for incest is also inherited. We already have a bunch of bad Targs, I don’t want another. I would prefer a bad Lannister or a bad Stark. Are we going to find out that not all Targs are ‘evil', but all ‘evil’ characters are Targs? Are Ramsey and Gregor also secret Targs? And when Targs die out we will all know that now things will get better, because we got rid of the inherently evil family. Maybe if GRRM also kills all the Boltons and Greyjoys and Freys Westeros will turn into heavens. So yeah, I really hope Cersei is simply a Lannister. Because Lannisters are capable of producing terrible rulers without the help of Targ blood, just like anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Darwin Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 So I was browsing the Jon's real name thread, and something dawned on me for the first time. We're actually pretty lucky to be waiting for the next book. If I ever have kids (who hopefully will bear the name we gave them), when they're old enough and I have them read the books, they'll just read through the whole thing, all at once. If they don't figure out who Jon's mom is by the time they reach the big reveal, they never will. If Jon doesn't have any other name, they won't ever be able to discuss that like we are. You know? I'm still impatient, but I wouldn't be surprised if ASOIAF fans in a few decades find themselves envying us. (Is that a word? Envying? It looks funny.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 So I was browsing the Jon's real name thread, and something dawned on me for the first time. We're actually pretty lucky to be waiting for the next book. If I ever have kids (who hopefully will bear the name we gave them), when they're old enough and I have them read the books, they'll just read through the whole thing, all at once. If they don't figure out who Jon's mom is by the time they reach the big reveal, they never will. If Jon doesn't have any other name, they won't ever be able to discuss that like we are. You know? I'm still impatient, but I wouldn't be surprised if ASOIAF fans in a few decades find themselves envying us. (Is that a word? Envying? It looks funny.)I havecthought about this too. And consider this: Assuming we get Winds in 2016, we'll have 6 books in 20 years, or 1 book every 3.3 years. And if you count the five novellas and the world book, that's something new every 1.6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Darwin Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Well, I'm a bit of a latecomer, so my stats probably look even better :) There are all the sample chapters too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Well, I'm a bit of a latecomer, so my stats probably look even better :) There are all the sample chapters too!Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuvuuia Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I picture Robert Baratheon looking like William Riker from Star Trek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 For me it would ruin the grey nature of the books and its complexity. It would show that the main problem of the whole series were Targs in power and that Targs are simply black and white. Yeah, I actually still think this might be the fucking point of the story in the end, what's with the maesters's conspirancy to get rid of the Dragons (=Targs) and GRRM saying that maybe (all kinds) of magic will have to vanish in the end. It won't bother me at all (not exactly a Targ fan) and I'm a big lover of A+J=C+J, mostly for making Jaime (my fav pov) Aerys's bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Yeah, I actually still think this might be the fucking point of the story in the end, what's with the maesters's conspirancy to get rid of the Dragons (=Targs) and GRRM saying that maybe (all kinds) of magic will have to vanish in the end. It won't bother me at all (not exactly a Targ fan) and I'm a big lover of A+J=C+J, mostly for making Jaime (my fav pov) Aerys's bastard. I doubt Targaryens being the main problem is the point GRRM is trying to get across. The biggest villian(Tywin Lannister)in the story is not a Targaryen, probably the most devastating war Westeros has ever experienced was not caused by any Targ and no Jaime and Cersei are not Targs the theory is stupid and holds no water. And ironically a Targaryen might be the one to save the world. So I highly doubt that the Targs are the main problem is what GRRM is trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSarellaX Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Nah I wasn't meaning you specifically. It was just a random ASoIaF confession. It's not even the castration angle for me, rather the idea of calling someone after a group of brainwashed battle slaves. You know what? All this talk about Unsullied made me think... I always thought they were called that because, since they didn't read the books, they didn't know what was coming next. So Unsullied=unspoiled I just realized that, if Winds isn't out by the time season 6 airs, the book readers who decide against watching the show are going to be the real Unsullied. :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Darry Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Yeah, I actually still think this might be the fucking point of the story in the end, what's with the maesters's conspirancy to get rid of the Dragons (=Targs) and GRRM saying that maybe (all kinds) of magic will have to vanish in the end. It won't bother me at all (not exactly a Targ fan) and I'm a big lover of A+J=C+J, mostly for making Jaime (my fav pov) Aerys's bastard. It would be kinda double standards to get rid of Targs and their magic but keep the Starks. There is so much talk about how fire is bad, how dragons are bad, how Targs and their magic is bad and how maesters wanted to get rid of their magic, their dragons and them personally. But how about Stark magic blood and wargs and greenseers and things like that? Is that automatically OK, because GRRM favours Starks and prefers cold over heat? There are some points how warging and greenseeing is 'evil', but not in the same way as it is constantly brought up that fire is bad (Fire consumes, but ice preserves. Dying of hypothermia is like going to sleep (yeah, right) but death by fire is a good enough reason to seperate Gilly and her baby...etc.). This magic is in Stark blood and if GRRM excuse for killing all the Tags is their evil magic blood, he should also kill Starks. Don't get me wrong, I like Starks, I don't want them to die. Not in a million years! But I would be annoyed if GRRM kills Targs because their magic blood is evil and leaves Starks because their magic blood is good. Or if it truly turns out that some families are more inherently evil than others. GRRM made such a huge deal of grey characters and history repeating itself and how things are not black and white, so if it turns out that the point truly is that there is something rotten in Targ blood and that that was the problem all along I will be very disappointed. Besides the reasons I already stated why I don't like A+J=C+J I also wouldn't like if it turns out that Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were not only secret Lannisters but actually secret secret Targs posing as true Baratheons. It would be a bit too much for me, and I like secret Targ theories :) I doubt Targaryens being the main problem is the point GRRM is trying to get across. The biggest villian(Tywin Lannister)in the story is not a Targaryen, probably the most devastating war Westeros has ever experienced was not caused by any Targ and no Jaime and Cersei are not Targs the theory is stupid and holds no water. And ironically a Targaryen might be the one to save the world. So I highly doubt that the Targs are the main problem is what GRRM is trying to say. I really hope so. But I don't know if GRRM agrees with you and me that Two5K was the worst war. Maybe he thinks that Dance of dragons was worst. Unfortunately there are some hints that Cersei and Jaime are secret Targs. I agree that it is a ridiculous theory, but there is a reason why some fans takes it seriously. Joanna said to Jamie in a dream how Tywin always dreamed of having a daughter for a queen and a son as a knight. And when Jamie said that that happened, Joanna behaved in a odd way. And there are also other reasons, this was just the first one that came to my mind. GRRM didn't close all doors regarding A+J=C+J. If it turns out Cersei and Jamie are secret Targs we won't be able to pretend that it came from thin air. Yes, a Targ might save the world (if R+L=J). But at the same time KL might burn, kingdoms might get independent (both are Targ legacy), Targs might die out and maybe we will find out that the main reason why Others started invading were Targs and maybe the second dance of the dragons will be more destructive then Two5K. GRRM also left some doors open for the 'Mad king was mad, and his first son was also a mad rapist, and his second son was an abusive jerk and his daughter is going to be a destructive villain' reveal. Even if Jon saves the word it would still be a bad (and sort of a Targs are a better looking orcs) ending for Targs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I don't see a problem with a Targ (= the Dragons) saving the world and then vanish. It's the stuff legends are made from. It would be kinda double standards to get rid of Targs and their magic but keep the Starks. Gods, don't make me start about the "heroic" Starks and their "bittersweet" ending (right). If there is one thing I care less about than the Targ's legacy it's definitely theirs. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 GRRM seems like he likes the Targs a lot he writes about them more than any family, so I'm almost sure he won't write about how everything is their fault. If anything GRRM has shown us that everyone else is just as bad as the Targs or almost as bad. We have the Baratheons who have neglected the throne via Robert, we have them killing each other for the throne(Stannis and Renly)and doing things like starving KL. We see how greedy and cruel the Lannisters are Especially Tywin he always calls them vilians. We see crazy batshit people like Lysa who helped start a war, we also hear constantly about some of the horrors the rebels did while fighting the Targs. Than we have some Tyrells playing the game, Littlefinger is practically responsible for the war. I doubt too that the Targs will die out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Well as Aemon said: fire consumes, ice preserves. Make of it what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 GRRM explicitly called the Starks his heroes, and he also has written hundreds of thousands of words about the history of House Targaryen. I'm not saying I think he won't kill them off, but that's an awful lot of time and effort put into just ending their legacy if Jon and Dany die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Renly Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Okay, there are quite a few things I need to get out of my head. Maesters keep their first name when they become maester and drop their last. But we have a Luwin, Marwyn, Walgrave, Cressen, Pycelle, Colemun and Harmune and I just can't see their names as first name. I know this is a fantasy, but naming your son Walgrave... I just see them as a last names. Also when Pate should become a maester, he will be Maester Pate and if I had a maester, I just don't think I would accept council frome someone who is called Pate, like the pig's boy. Seriously, this ! There isnt any other Pycelle or Caleotte ( wtf really ? ). And there isnt any Maester Robert or Maester Jon. There must be something to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Darry Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 GRRM seems like he likes the Targs a lot he writes about them more than any family, so I'm almost sure he won't write about how everything is their fault. If anything GRRM has shown us that everyone else is just as bad as the Targs or almost as bad. We have the Baratheons who have neglected the throne via Robert, we have them killing each other for the throne(Stannis and Renly)and doing things like starving KL. We see how greedy and cruel the Lannisters are Especially Tywin he always calls them vilians. We see crazy batshit people like Lysa who helped start a war, we also hear constantly about some of the horrors the rebels did while fighting the Targs. Than we have some Tyrells playing the game, Littlefinger is practically responsible for the war. I doubt too that the Targs will die out. GRRM explicitly called the Starks his heroes, and he also has written hundreds of thousands of words about the history of House Targaryen. I'm not saying I think he won't kill them off, but that's an awful lot of time and effort put into just ending their legacy if Jon and Dany die. GRRM said that his favourite character is Tyrion and he thinks that Tyrion is a villain (https://web.archive.org/web/19991013131915/http://cyberhaven.com/books/sciencefiction/martin.html). He also said that he would like to write a book from Aegon IV POV, but he thinks he was the worst king ever. He wrote more about Targs then he did about any other house, but that doesn't mean they will survive or that they are the good guys (or the grey guys). It's like asking why do people write about Tudors, they are dead. Maybe GRRM likes writing about Targs exactly because he knows they will die out. He also likes to read history books, and people in those books are dead. He can write about Starks when ASOIAF is finished. Readers are going to be more interested in Starks at that point, because Starks are going to survive. We can't say the same for Targs. I also think we have more bad targs in story then bad Lannisters or Baratheons. There is a reason why so many readers hate Targs. Baratheons and Lannisters are much more popular. Also GRRM wrote that Targs have a taint. There are fans who think that this a good enough reason for them to die out. And the way GRRM writes about mental illness I am afraid he agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Picking the name discussion up again from a couple of pages ago... I'm a huge "name nerd." I love collecting and discovering names, and have been picking out my future kids' names since I was 15 - so over half my life. I've grown fond of the name Renly recently. I'd give it more serious thought if not for the fact that I'm already set on the name Wren for a girl. A "Wren" (even as a middle name) with a brother named Renly is too similar and confusing. Some Targaryen names are tempting, but I'd never use them: Aemma, Baela, Daena, Laena, etc. Aegon (yes) and Aemon as well. The tryndee/youneek name-spelling trend that's popular right now ultimately ruins it for me. I'm sorta ok with Daenys; My really good friend Danielle introduced the series to me. It would be to honor her. Totally considering Duncan and Graham at the moment - Duncan from the D&E series and Graham from another series entirely. A RPG series from the 90s called King's Quest. I fell in love with the name Rosamund when I was 16 after hearing it on the history channel. I got nerdy-happy when Rosamund Lannister appeared in AFfC. Before ASoIaF, I hated the nickname Ned. Now I wouldn't mind using it... or Eddard for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 ^^ I'm also tempted to use the name Freya on a girl, but House Frey has kinda ruined it, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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