R+L=J v 150

[UnmaskedLurker]

 

Look no further, look in the op, or in my signature. Or surf to Radio Westeros.

 

Or look in the book, wasn't it Brienne who was showing us how to do it? I can't seem to find the passage just now, and neither do I remember in which Radio Westeros episode, but it should be the one about Jon :)

Thanks for the links -- but I will leave it to Alia to find the right one. I am comfortable with the explanation -- but she might want to listen to it as I recall they were pretty persuasive when I heard it when it first came out.

[IceFire125]

Re: the "booming voice." I've always thought the impression we're supposed to be left with is that the KotLT was attempting to disguise their voice, and the technical quibbles are just that.

 

The knight may disguise his voice, but 'booming (thundering/roaring) voice' can also be attached with noble authority and honor (for justice).  I think that is the intent of what drove Lyanna.  She saw the knights of these squires as testaments of their failure to properly teach them honor.

[Bael's Bastard]

I recall yolkboy talkin about such an experiment but I didn't know there was an audio. But given that he is the one doin the recordings on radio westeros, that's certainly his area of expertise.
 
That's a very good point. HR was still a "lad" - the wiki has him born in or between 260-265, i.e. aged 16-21. That's basically the age of my students, and though some of them should definitely come with a button to turn down volume, I don't recall a single one whose voice could be described as "booming".

Aren't Crannogmen small too? My impression is that even an adult male might not necessarily sound like other grown men.

[J. Stargaryen]

Yes -- that was who did it -- on Radio Westeros.

 

It might be that they only talked about the bucket experiment on the R.W. clip rather than actually recreating it there. But I have some recollection that they were confident that it would work if done correctly.

 

And the idea that the KotLT was disguising his or her voice also is persuasive.

 

I thought they did one quickly for this thread, too. Did they do another one for RW?

 

 

The knight may disguise his voice, but 'booming (thundering/roaring) voice' can also be attached with noble authority and honor (for justice).  I think that is the intent of what drove Lyanna.  She saw the knights of these squires as testaments of their failure to properly teach them honor.

 

Yeah, booming certainly could denote authoritative.

[Alia of the knife]

Okay, so it's the acoustics from inside the helm,  coupled with disguising the voice then? And Lyanna was surrounded by men, so she probably did a good job of mocking them from time to time,

 

Thanks all!

[BearQueen87]

Two things that I've wondered about.

tKotLT was said to have had a booming voice. How was Lyanna able to do do that?

 

 

Does anyone else remember when YolkBoy recorded his voice in a trash can bin for me in order to demonstrate the booming effect a metal bin will have? (wish I could remember what thread that was...)  For me that coupled with what IceFire said about authority and Lyanna's taking charge and it giving her a more OOMPF in her voice answers that question for me.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Whoa hold your horses R+L = J ers  before you anoint him king Jon Targaryen , first examine how does this effect Jon ..Number one I don't think he is Rhaegar's son, I could go on with my list of why he is not ,maybe for another time .But let's say Jon is a Targ ,What does this means to him . His is their rightful king (a term which I despise ) . Jon is not that ambitious . Renly ,Viserys , Balon , Theon and Daenerys is more ambitious than Jon  even Stannis is more ambitious he made a Faustian deal with the red witch .. In AGOT Jon wanted to be a ranger it took Sam to tell him they was grooming him to be the lord commander but did he stick with his grooming  under the tutelage of Mormont? No , he went ranging with Qhorin , then in ASOS when Stannis needed Jon as the lord of Winterfell to pacify the north he turns him down . I  am pretty sure Alester Thorne , Janos Slynt or Bowen Marsh would be glad to be rid of Jon. He finds out who his true parentage is ? He had a parent he was known as Eddard his surrogate moms was probably Wylla until he was weaned then it would be old Nan . The only history he knows about  Rhaegar and Lyanna is what maester Luwin told him  and if the is some citadel conspiracy he would hear how she was raped by Rhaegar . And how would Jon feel knowing that his parents was the cause of so much death .Remember this is not the Riverland or the Crownlands where there is the base of Targaryen loyalty .

[BearQueen87]

Whoa hold your horses R+L = J ers  before you anoint him king Jon Targaryen , first examine how does this effect Jon ..Number one I don't think he is Rhaegar's son, I could go on with my list of why he is not ,maybe for another time .But let's say Jon is a Targ ,What does this means to him . His is their rightful king (a term which I despise ) . Jon is not that ambitious . Renly ,Viserys , Balon , Theon and Daenerys is more ambitious than Jon  even Stannis is more ambitious he made a Faustian deal with the red witch .. In AGOT Jon wanted to be a ranger it took Sam to tell him they was grooming him to be the lord commander but did he stick with his grooming  under the tutelage of Mormont? No , he went ranging with Qhorin , then in ASOS when Stannis needed Jon as the lord of Winterfell to pacify the north he turns him down . I  am pretty sure Alester Thorne , Janos Slynt or Bowen Marsh would be glad to be rid of Jon. He finds out who his true parentage is ? He had a parent he was known as Eddard his surrogate moms was probably Wylla until he was weaned then it would be old Nan . The only history he knows about  Rhaegar and Lyanna is what maester Luwin told him  and if the is some citadel conspiracy he would hear how she was raped by Rhaegar . And how would Jon feel knowing that his parents was the cause of so much death .Remember this is not the Riverland or the Crownlands where there is the base of Targaryen loyalty .

 

There's a lot in here that I'm sure other people will respond to in due course, so I'll just take one thing: Jon is not ambitious. Ok, he's not really. But what is he? Dutiful. If elected king GC-style (much like he was elected LC) he'll accept the mantle of power/kingship. Why? Duty. He does his duty. No one here, so far as I know, has ever claimed that Jon will seek the throne because he's ambitious. If anything, it will be something he doesn't relish but will take because he has to serve the realm.

[Alia of the knife]

 
Does anyone else remember when YolkBoy recorded his voice in a trash can bin for me in order to demonstrate the booming effect a metal bin will have? (wish I could remember what thread that was...)  For me that coupled with what IceFire said about authority and Lyanna's taking charge and it giving her a more OOMPF in her voice answers that question for me.

Hey, is there an audio link? That would be fun if they did that.

Medieval helms were pretty precarious. Unlike modern helmets today where you can make modifications for vision, movement and breathing, they didn't have a lot of options, so she probably sounded like she was yelling into a trash can.

[Alia of the knife]

Whoa hold your horses R+L = J ers  before you anoint him king Jon Targaryen , first examine how does this effect Jon ..Number one I don't think he is Rhaegar's son, I could go on with my list of why he is not ,maybe for another time .But let's say Jon is a Targ ,What does this means to him . His is their rightful king (a term which I despise ) . Jon is not that ambitious . Renly ,Viserys , Balon , Theon and Daenerys is more ambitious than Jon  even Stannis is more ambitious he made a Faustian deal with the red witch .. In AGOT Jon wanted to be a ranger it took Sam to tell him they was grooming him to be the lord commander but did he stick with his grooming  under the tutelage of Mormont? No , he went ranging with Qhorin , then in ASOS when Stannis needed Jon as the lord of Winterfell to pacify the north he turns him down . I  am pretty sure Alester Thorne , Janos Slynt or Bowen Marsh would be glad to be rid of Jon. He finds out who his true parentage is ? He had a parent he was known as Eddard his surrogate moms was probably Wylla until he was weaned then it would be old Nan . The only history he knows about  Rhaegar and Lyanna is what maester Luwin told him  and if the is some citadel conspiracy he would hear how she was raped by Rhaegar . And how would Jon feel knowing that his parents was the cause of so much death .Remember this is not the Riverland or the Crownlands where there is the base of Targaryen loyalty .

I kind of think he ends up The last Targaryen standing.

[BearQueen87]

Hey, is there an audio link? That would be fun if they did that.

Medieval helms were pretty precarious. Unlike modern helmets today where you can make modifications for vision, movement and breathing, they didn't have a lot of options, so she probably sounded like she was yelling into a trash can.

 

It was sometime right after Radio Westeros did their RLJ podcast, and before thread 100 but very close to it. So...I'm not very helpful. (sad face)

 

Slightly OT: omg you added Iwar to your siggy. *drools*

[Ygrain]

 

Whoa hold your horses R+L = J ers  before you anoint him king Jon Targaryen , first examine how does this effect Jon ..Number one I don't think he is Rhaegar's son, I could go on with my list of why he is not ,maybe for another time .But let's say Jon is a Targ ,What does this means to him . His is their rightful king (a term which I despise ) . Jon is not that ambitious . Renly ,Viserys , Balon , Theon and Daenerys is more ambitious than Jon  even Stannis is more ambitious he made a Faustian deal with the red witch .. In AGOT Jon wanted to be a ranger it took Sam to tell him they was grooming him to be the lord commander but did he stick with his grooming  under the tutelage of Mormont? No , he went ranging with Qhorin , then in ASOS when Stannis needed Jon as the lord of Winterfell to pacify the north he turns him down . I  am pretty sure Alester Thorne , Janos Slynt or Bowen Marsh would be glad to be rid of Jon. He finds out who his true parentage is ? He had a parent he was known as Eddard his surrogate moms was probably Wylla until he was weaned then it would be old Nan . The only history he knows about  Rhaegar and Lyanna is what maester Luwin told him  and if the is some citadel conspiracy he would hear how she was raped by Rhaegar . And how would Jon feel knowing that his parents was the cause of so much death .Remember this is not the Riverland or the Crownlands where there is the base of Targaryen loyalty .

Well, that's exactly the point - the impact on Jon when he finds out. It is highly possible that he would resent his heritage ("Lord Eddard will always be my father, no matter how many swords they give me") but, as pointed out above, he may be forced to take it to carry out the spirit of the vow ("protect the realms of men") at the cost of breaking its word ("wear no crown"). That's a lot of conflict to be solved for his character arc.

[Kingmonkey]

Hey, is there an audio link? That would be fun if they did that.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/117509-rl-j-v-106/page-13#entry6275295

If you think that the sound of a male adult speaking inside a sealed resonant cavity of thin-walled metal is a realistic guide to the sound of a female teenager speaking inside a perforated non-resonant cavity of thick-walled metal then it'll possibly be persuasive. Next, we'll get Vin Deisel and James Earl Jones to yell in a pillow and see if that can shatter glass. 

Here's a list of people with booming voices:
Donal Noye ("a chest like a keg of ale")
Robert Baratheon ("muscled like a maiden's fantasy")
A Herald (a professional bellower)
Northern knight who almost captures Tyrion ("immense")
Greatjon Umber (Greatjon. He's Jon, and he's Great. 'Nuff said)
Wendel Manderly (The third fattest man in Westeros)
Rioter demanding bread (no description)
KotLT (A skinny 14 year old girl with magic +3 Helm of Booming)
Only the Frickin' Mountain ("His deep voice boomed within the helm." Sound familiar? #KneelingMountain=KotLT, get hype!.)
Mace Tyrell ("a once-powerful man gone to fat")
Erik Ironmaker ("20 stones heavy")
Bronze Yohn Royce ("...tall as the Hound... looked as though he could break most younger men like twigs in those huge gnarled hands")
Lyle Crakehall ("Strongboar")
Some Boisterous Tyroshi Sailors in Braavos
Ser Godry "Giantslayer" Farring ("The knight overtopped him by six inches")
Moqorro ("a monster of a man, as tall as Victarion himself and twice as wide")

Nope. "She's disguising her voice" doesn't cut it. Helmet doesn't cut it. Lots of people speak through their helmets without booming. Looking through this list of people who's voice booms there's a really obvious pattern, and Lyanna simply does not fit it. Even Brienne only gets her voice "muffled" by her great helm, and while she's the same gender as Lyanna, she's about 8 yards taller and could have worn Lyanna as a shoe.  As Bael's Bard pointed out last page, even if the KotLT isn't Lyanna, it's still someone small. Whoever was in that armour should not have had a booming voice.

Something fishy was going on. Was there someone there who might have been able to throw their voice, and possibly manipulate the sound of it? Maybe someone who could "...talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear."

[Rickyhunt]

So does everyone believe this?

[Ygrain]

Even Brienne only gets her voice "muffled" by her great helm, and while she's the same gender as Lyanna, she's about 8 yards taller and could have worn Lyanna as a shoe.  As Bael's Bard pointed out last page, even if the KotLT isn't Lyanna, it's still someone small. Whoever was in that armour should not have had a booming voice.

Please. Brienne is neither talking particularly loudly nor trying to disguise her voice.

 

Guess what? When I need to pacify a classroom, I set my voice lower than I normally speak or shout. I other words, I sort of to bellow. It's something that one can do intentionally.

[Ygrain]

So does everyone believe this?

Believe what, RLJ? No, not everyone. A lot of people, yes.

[shk12344]

So does everyone believe this?

I would say vast majority of people in the forum believes in R + L = J. But there are plenty of doubters and skeptics.

[Bael's Bastard]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/117509-rl-j-v-106/page-13#entry6275295

If you think that the sound of a male adult speaking inside a sealed resonant cavity of thin-walled metal is a realistic guide to the sound of a female teenager speaking inside a perforated non-resonant cavity of thick-walled metal then it'll possibly be persuasive. Next, we'll get Vin Deisel and James Earl Jones to yell in a pillow and see if that can shatter glass. 

Here's a list of people with booming voices:
Donal Noye ("a chest like a keg of ale")
Robert Baratheon ("muscled like a maiden's fantasy")
A Herald (a professional bellower)
Northern knight who almost captures Tyrion ("immense")
Greatjon Umber (Greatjon. He's Jon, and he's Great. 'Nuff said)
Wendel Manderly (The third fattest man in Westeros)
Rioter demanding bread (no description)
KotLT (A skinny 14 year old girl with magic +3 Helm of Booming)
Only the Frickin' Mountain ("His deep voice boomed within the helm." Sound familiar? #KneelingMountain=KotLT, get hype!.)
Mace Tyrell ("a once-powerful man gone to fat")
Erik Ironmaker ("20 stones heavy")
Bronze Yohn Royce ("...tall as the Hound... looked as though he could break most younger men like twigs in those huge gnarled hands")
Lyle Crakehall ("Strongboar")
Some Boisterous Tyroshi Sailors in Braavos
Ser Godry "Giantslayer" Farring ("The knight overtopped him by six inches")
Moqorro ("a monster of a man, as tall as Victarion himself and twice as wide")

Nope. "She's disguising her voice" doesn't cut it. Helmet doesn't cut it. Lots of people speak through their helmets without booming. Looking through this list of people who's voice booms there's a really obvious pattern, and Lyanna simply does not fit it. Even Brienne only gets her voice "muffled" by her great helm, and while she's the same gender as Lyanna, she's about 8 yards taller and could have worn Lyanna as a shoe.  As Bael's Bard pointed out last page, even if the KotLT isn't Lyanna, it's still someone small. Whoever was in that armour should not have had a booming voice.

Something fishy was going on. Was there someone there who might have been able to throw their voice, and possibly manipulate the sound of it? Maybe someone who could "...talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear."

I don't think the other people you name are at all relevant to the discussion. We are explicitly told that the voice was booming through the helm, and the ONLY source for this booming voice through the helm are the tiny crannog children of tiny crannogman Howland Reed. We do not get any description of TKOTLT's voice from ANY OTHER PERSPECTIVE. So to compare it to a POV character experiencing a booming voice in real time of any of the old and or giant men you named is IMO absurd.

[Alia of the knife]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/117509-rl-j-v-106/page-13#entry6275295

If you think that the sound of a male adult speaking inside a sealed resonant cavity of thin-walled metal is a realistic guide to the sound of a female teenager speaking inside a perforated non-resonant cavity of thick-walled metal then it'll possibly be persuasive. Next, we'll get Vin Deisel and James Earl Jones to yell in a pillow and see if that can shatter glass. 

Here's a list of people with booming voices:
Donal Noye ("a chest like a keg of ale")
Robert Baratheon ("muscled like a maiden's fantasy")
A Herald (a professional bellower)
Northern knight who almost captures Tyrion ("immense")
Greatjon Umber (Greatjon. He's Jon, and he's Great. 'Nuff said)
Wendel Manderly (The third fattest man in Westeros)
Rioter demanding bread (no description)
KotLT (A skinny 14 year old girl with magic +3 Helm of Booming)
Only the Frickin' Mountain ("His deep voice boomed within the helm." Sound familiar? #KneelingMountain=KotLT, get hype!.)
Mace Tyrell ("a once-powerful man gone to fat")
Erik Ironmaker ("20 stones heavy")
Bronze Yohn Royce ("...tall as the Hound... looked as though he could break most younger men like twigs in those huge gnarled hands")
Lyle Crakehall ("Strongboar")
Some Boisterous Tyroshi Sailors in Braavos
Ser Godry "Giantslayer" Farring ("The knight overtopped him by six inches")
Moqorro ("a monster of a man, as tall as Victarion himself and twice as wide")

Nope. "She's disguising her voice" doesn't cut it. Helmet doesn't cut it. Lots of people speak through their helmets without booming. Looking through this list of people who's voice booms there's a really obvious pattern, and Lyanna simply does not fit it. Even Brienne only gets her voice "muffled" by her great helm, and while she's the same gender as Lyanna, she's about 8 yards taller and could have worn Lyanna as a shoe.  As Bael's Bard pointed out last page, even if the KotLT isn't Lyanna, it's still someone small. Whoever was in that armour should not have had a booming voice.

Something fishy was going on. Was there someone there who might have been able to throw their voice, and possibly manipulate the sound of it? Maybe someone who could "...talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear."

Um, when my 5'3 mother used to call me to come in for the night, you could hear her on the next block.

Also, one of my high school teachers, 5'1 Mrs. Olga Klapp, could be heard in an absolutely booming voice as she told me to put my feet down off the desk, and spit my DAMN gum out.

[Bael's Bastard]

Earlier Lyanna is described with, "But then they heard a roar. 'That's my father's man you're kicking,' howled the she-wolf." Again, consider the source(s), the children of Howland Reed. Nobody ever claims TKOTLT had an unnaturally deep manly voice. Aerys was convinced it was teenaged Jaime, after all.