Motivation in school... the tween edition

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

If I were to homeschool, you would hear about it on CNN Headline News: Upstate NY mother stabs Child, then herself with compass point.  Bodies found slumped over open history book. Full story at 11.  

 

Seriously though, I just had both of them do a summer skills math problem set. This was given to us by the school and is supposed to be at grade level. 3.5 seconds later, Henry has done all the remaining pages in the workbook and they are all correct (I told them that the two assigned sheets have to be done correctly before we can go to the farmer's market) He can do this without even thinking at the end of the summer and yet, he can't be bothered to get an A in the class?  

Tell him if he doesn't get an A, then he's grounded?

 

I'm only half joking. I know plenty kids where that approach worked great, and plenty of cases where it backfired and turned into years of resentment and/or lack of internal motivation. And sometimes you don't know it's backfired until years later, in college.

[Maya Mia]

Homeschooling isn't an option for us, as we both work.  I've raised two sons already, both which basically were good kids at school.  The middle one had a semester where he brought home all Cs and Ds, a nice long grounding cured that.

 

But this one, he was born defiant, and he almost isn't punishable, because he just doesn't care.  He is going into 10th grade this fall, and he has no plans/wants etc for after he graduates from high school.  I've asked him what he wants to do, as don't all kids say something they want to be when they grow up, but not him.

 

Now, with all that, he isn't a bad kid, he doesn't get into trouble, his teachers have always said he is well behaved, but underperforming. 

[Darzin]

My parents had the same problem with me when I was in middle school, and truthfully everyone constantly telling me how smart I was probably hurt me more than anything else, I didn't have a whole lot of motivation to get a good grades because everyone already knew I could if I wanted. for me at least constant validation of my abilities just led to complacency.

 

I also turned down advanced classes in high school. My parents couldn't understand but the thing is in the advanced classes I'd be just another student, but in normal classes I was he smartest kid in the room and called a genius by my peers. That seems silly now but it can be a powerful source of validation when  your fifteen. And when your teacher just stared at you in amazement  for knowing who Caesar Chavez was, well maybe you'd go rather work on some fun project in the  garage.

 

At least for me I got enough validation that the grades didn't seem so important. Once I could see college on the horizon thought that changed. The last two  years of high school I took as many AP courses as I could and buckled down and raised my grades.  

[lokisnow]

I call it smart kid syndrome where the smart kid is so used to being told how smart they are and also how wonderful it is that everything comes natural they internalize this awful lesson.

So when they inevitably hit a wall of something they don't get they have no skills, capacity nor experience to approach said obstacle.

The dead giveaway is they immediately call whatever thing it is they don't get, "stupid."

The praise they've gotten is addictive and as unhealthy as a diet of soda and icecream, mentally, all that praise tastes great and comes at no cost.

The Remedy Is Emphasize effort, not outcome, and instill habits of hard work and best effort not best grades.

[Whitestripe]

The Remedy Is Emphasize effort, not outcome, and instill habits of hard work and best effort not best grades.

I get that. We've told him over and over that the grades he's getting are not "bad" but that we know he can do better. We've also explained that his new school has different (higher) standards, and to get the grades we know he's capable of, he needs to work a little harder. He's slowly getting better, but his organization skills and study skills are terrible. Part of his parent assigned homework was to bring home each subject's folder on certain days of the week so we could make sure it was organized. His desk was a mess and he'd just throw homework and quizzes away (not realizing that he was going to have to revisit the material for a test later). He always used to "forget" to bring home his notebooks, until one day Dad marched him back into his classroom to get them. Poor kid hated that!

My daughter (grade 3) would have a study guide provided to her by her teacher at the end of the unit, but in 5th grade they expected the students to be able to do that on their own (and Henry had no experience of such practice coming from a different school.)

Example: the motivated kids kept homework and quizzes and created a study guide for the end of unit test. They learned to do this in previous grades.

Henry has no concept of needing to do this as it was not a common practice in old school. He always did just fine on tests without one. The test is harder and he doesn't do as well as he could have with a little extra organization. Instead of deciding to get organized, he gives up and says school is suddenly too hard.

Steam comes out of Mom's ears and yelling ensues.

[Kat]

This is kind of hard to explain to a kid, but you might try. I'm pretty sure that your ability to absorb and remember information doesn't change that much at that age and won't change much as he grows up. However, the amount of information he is expected to be able to recall on tests will get larger each year. Thus, he and every other kid will have to eventually develop the ability to take notes and study. He's going to have to be able to do this for the rest of his life probably, whether in college or in job training, so it's best to learn how now rather than when he's really stuck, just like it's better to, say, buy a first aid kit before you get injured rather than afterward. People have different abilities in hearing/seeing things and immediately committing them to memory and he's probably running up against his limit now on tests. It's better to have it happen in middle school than late in high school or in college like what happened to me, because you'll get a lot more support from the other people around you in developing study skills. I had really poor study skills when I got to college and I still don't have very good organization and find it hard to teach to students. The students who are often identified as "smart kids" in elementary/middle school are usually the ones who are good at listening (or reading) and remembering things, but there's limits for everyone on that.

 

Organization and study skill problems are incredibly common in high school students because of the increased demand on them and the comparative lack of support from teachers, since you have more teachers. Our school has a really high graduation rate for students in special education (actually higher than for kids in gen ed, which is unusual), mainly because the special ed teachers focus a lot on organization and study skills with their students and they get time and support to do it with an adult. And then there are kids who do well despite having a backpack that looks like a recycling bin. It really is unfair. :P

[Cuellar]

I think there are many different categories to what will motivate people (and kids).  There is no one size fits all.

 

Some work hard to avoid punishment, some are competitive, some are achievers, some respond to praise, some want to please parents.  Worst part is, different things might work at different times and for different stress levels. 

 

Appreciate all the tips in this thread, since it'll be something I have to deal with shortly (oldest starts kindergarten on Monday!)

[Glaurung]

It seems some of the kids mentioned here are going through puberty.  I don't know if we all can remember what that was like, but not all kids handle it well.  I know I didn't. There could be more to it than simply changing schools.  I know I went through a period where I went from a straight A student to an average student.  All I could think about all day was sex...and girls....and social interaction....and girls....and sex. Here I am working out a math problem and all of a sudden....BOOBS!!  Maybe a few other interests fit in here and there, but suddenly school and/or learning was the least interesting thing in the world to me.  Eventually I adjusted and my grades saw a rebound, but some kids never adjust.

[Whitestripe]

I'm not listening, I'm not listening .... I dont want to contemplate puberty. I know that's coming, but he's not there, yet. Although there was a hilarious and extremely awkward conversation at the farmer's market last week. With a girl. A really smart girl. I'm hoping Henzo wants to impress her with his brains.

[IamMe90]

I hate to say this, but it really might come quite a bit sooner than you're expecting.

[MisterOJ]

You know, I was just considering starting a "Parenting, puberty and you" thread earlier today....

[cdawnb]

If you guys think puberty sucked while you were going through it, just wait until your child is going through it.

It's not that they turn into little monsters, they don't. It just presents a whole new set of challenges.

What you can end up having is adult problems in a teenage mind/body.

The only advice I can give is to establish really good communication skills with your child *before* you get to that point. Teenagers will sometimes shut down any form of communication, but if you establish those habits early they are much more likely to open up to you.

Listen, be there, and then listen some more.