Balerion the kitten Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Catelyn is the cause of most misery in WestorosHave to agree. Don't like the hate she gets here, but she did screw up pretty badly (even though she never meant for the things that happened to happen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Sansa Ned was going to reject Roberts job as Hand, so he asked for Sansas hand as well. Ned went south because of Sansa. Participated in the death of Mycha, thus cementing the enmity between Lannister and Stark. Told Ned about Joffs identity. Ned would never have confronted Cersei, thus killing Robert. Snitches out Ned. Joffrey becomes king. Catelyn releases Jaime. Perhaps allowing Tywin to give permission to the RW. Sansa tells Margery of Joffreys behavior. Loras joins the KG Sansa brings poison to Joffreys wedding. Tommen becomes king. Sansa causes Lysas murder. Petyr becomes Lord. She's a busy little bird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Petyr Baelish and Cersei. These were my first thoughts/picks, but I'm going to go further and say Robert Baratheon. If wasn't an absent, frivolous King then neither of these would have been around to cause trouble. Neither would all the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOne-EyedHound Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Littlefinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Catelyn is the cause of most misery in Westoros Have to agree. Don't like the hate she gets here, but she did screw up pretty badly (even though she never meant for the things that happened to happen). :bs: Jaime had already pushed Bran from a tower, Cersei was going to kill Robert, Joff was going to kill Ned, Tywin was going to gain power in KL regardless of Cat taking Tyrion to the Vale for a trial...which he walked out of unscathed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Stark Wolfmen Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Petyr Baelish. Freaking agent of chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 :bs: Jaime had already pushed Bran from a tower, Cersei was going to kill Robert, Joff was going to kill Ned, Tywin was going to gain power in KL regardless of Cat taking Tyrion to the Vale for a trial...which he walked out of unscathed.Not getting involved in an argument right now. Plenty of discussions and arguments about Cat, one more isn't needed. But for your information, I was referring to kidnapping Tyrion (which marked the beginning of the slaughter that took place in the riverlands) and releasing Jaime (which resulted in two innocent boys dying, and then left Robb no other choice but to make amends with the freys - since rickard got pissed off). In normal circumstances I wouldn't hold these events against her, but since the OP said "things they didn't intend or plan, but more like a butterfly effect, happened because of a decision or action they did", I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Aerys? Petty and jealous towards his own hand, enough to make an enemy out of him, and takes on other incompetent hands instead. Ruling the realm badly enough that his son organizes a tournament to gauge the lords regarding a great council, then shows up to mess it up. Kills wardens without a trial, kills plenty of heirs and demands the heads of more heirs. Takes Elia and kids hostage, then opens the gates to Tywin. Horrible king who provoked RR, and the rest that came after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Sansa Ned was going to reject Roberts job as Hand, so he asked for Sansas hand as well. Ned went south because of Sansa. Participated in the death of Mycha, thus cementing the enmity between Lannister and Stark. Told Ned about Joffs identity. Ned would never have confronted Cersei, thus killing Robert. Snitches out Ned. Joffrey becomes king. Catelyn releases Jaime. Perhaps allowing Tywin to give permission to the RW. Sansa tells Margery of Joffreys behavior. Loras joins the KG Sansa brings poison to Joffreys wedding. Tommen becomes king. Sansa causes Lysas murder. Petyr becomes Lord. She's a busy little birdLoras joined the KG when Marg was betrothed to Joff. He joined because it was part of the arrangement to join Highgarden and CR together. Not because Sansa told Marg about Joff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Not getting involved in an argument right now. Plenty of discussions and arguments about Cat, one more isn't needed. But for your information, I was referring to kidnapping Tyrion (which marked the beginning of the slaughter that took place in the riverlands) and releasing Jaime (which resulted in two innocent boys dying, and then left Robb no other choice but to make amends with the freys - since rickard got pissed off). In normal circumstances I wouldn't hold these events against her, but since the OP said "things they didn't intend or plan, but more like a butterfly effect, happened because of a decision or action they did", I am. I love that. After 5 years of reading Catelyn blaming I finally decide this once to speak up against an obvious falicy, and you don't want an argument....just the ability to further your own arguement of Cat blaming.;) Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Bane Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Who caused the most trouble? Cersei and Jaime. They chose to risk a quick screw in a broken down tower, and got caught. Then Jaime attempted to murder Bran the peeping tom. Whose actions will end up causing the most trouble? Jon. His actions to rescue Arya angered the Boltons and placed the Night Watch into a difficult situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Who caused the most trouble? Cersei and Jaime. They chose to risk a quick screw in a broken down tower, and got caught. Then Jaime attempted to murder Bran the peeping tom. Whose actions will end up causing the most trouble? Jon. His actions to rescue Arya angered the Boltons and placed the Night Watch into a difficult situation. NW was already in big time trouble, with nobody sending them any men anymore except the likes of Slynt, by voting a traitor's son to LC and the small council deciding to send 100 men to the NW to kill. The realm abandoned them, so they had to hire wildlings. Had they chosen Slynt instead the wildlings would have beaten them, or they'd be in trouble with Stannis. Wasn't as if Slynt "kept no part"... hell, he shouts over and over he had friends in KL. The NW were already doomed, with or without Jon, one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 The Ghost Of High Heart, implanted the seeds of prophecy in Rhaegar, setting in motion the events at the Harrenhal tournament, Robert's Rebellion, and the war of 5 kings. Baelish for everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I love that. After 5 years of reading Catelyn blaming I finally decide this once to speak up against an obvious falicy, and you don't want an argument....just the ability to further your own arguement of Cat blaming. ;) NiceI think the real blame here falls on GRRM. If he hadn't written a good enough story to amass a large fandom, there would be no forum like this to debate on. If he hadn't written Cat complex enough to be polarizing, there wouldn't be debates over Cat-hating on this forum. If he hadn't made the story so large that it takes years to write each book, people wouldn't have to keep returning to the same debates until they've so hardened their beliefs they can't even bear to respond to challenges anymore. If he'd just written a boring hack fantasy trilogy with paper-thin characters and a story he could dash out in six months/book, Balerion the killer wouldn't have written that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I love that. After 5 years of reading Catelyn blaming I finally decide this once to speak up against an obvious falicy, and you don't want an argument....just the ability to further your own arguement of Cat blaming.;) Nice:rolleyes: I'm sure you'll get another chance - since your clearly trying to get some argument going here, nice ;) I'll leave my statement above, in the hands of people who actually might understand its not exactly "catelyn blaming", but rather looking at the butterfly effects of her actions (which if you took the time to read the OP, was something that was mentioned). Whether or not you understand that, or whether or not you agree with my posts, really doesn't make a difference to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Mae Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Brandon Stark - for foolishly threatening Prince Rhaegar. Catelyn Stark - for apprehending Tyrion rather than bringing the matter to King Robert's attention. Littlefinger setting up the wolf and the lion to fight each other. Jon Snow committing treason at the wall, putting the crows in danger, and weakening the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Loras joined the KG when Marg was betrothed to Joff. He joined because it was part of the arrangement to join Highgarden and CR together. Not because Sansa told Marg about Joff Word. I suppose that's true. But she still caused a lot All Cat did was arrest Tyrion and free Jaime. One was because of Petyr, the other Sansa. Both much more active contributors to the game of thrones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Rhaegar, what an idiot. Didn't have the balls to do what had to be done as far as Aerys was concerned and then goes and pisses on two great houses with no regard for his cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Rose Crown Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Sansa !! Ugh, I know there is a lot of sansa love on here but if she just kept her mouth shut and got on the boat like Ned told her to, a lot of shit could have been avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Rose Crown Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why did rhaegar fight on the trident anyway? Everyone knew he was only so-so at arms and only learned because he thought the prophesy said he needed to be a warrior. Why not stay back and lead? Prepare to retreat if necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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