Something That's Always Kind Of Bugged Me

[Buried Treasure]

Bloodraven is connected to the weirnet, which traverses the Wall at the Black Gate. That would be what gives him a link south of the Wall even though the wolves and their wargs are blocked by the Wall.

[Nuncle Stark]

Oh. My. God!!! How did I not see the Bloodraven connection to the one eyed tom? I have always suspected that cat of significance, or some future event it will play and integral role in. I'm only half joking 0.o

[spoon89]

The quote is talking about how many wolves are still alive. That's four. To say that there is also one that Ghost can't feel anymore, is like saying that there were four still alive, and then there was one that can't be sensed anymore.

Does the Wall stop all skinchanging? No, but Bloodraven is a lot more practiced than Jon, which might be why Jon and Ghost can't sense Summer once they have the Wall between them, as well as why Jon no longer has his wolf dreams when he is south of the Wall, while Ghost is still north of it. Or else what is blocking their connection?

 

Look at the language/lexicon specific to the wolf dreams.

 

Five they had been, and a sixth who stood aside. (5+1)

Four and one more, the white who has no voice. (4+1)

Four remained and one the white wolf could no longer sense.

 

The use of the number the word and indicates a number plus, not a number with an exception to that number. In the lexicon of the wolf dreams, if I write "five people and two that were late", there are seven people with two which arrived late, not five people of which two arrived late. So there are four and the one Ghost can no longer sense. (4+1)

 

I think that Jon is not as focused on the wolf dreams, ergo he's not as strong as Bran and Arya. Bran is very focused on them due to his disability and has a teacher, Arya is focused on it for the mental health/comfort of strength and companionship, and it is one of the few links she now has left to 'Arya Stark'. Jon has a lot on this plate and i don't think that he is as focused on his skinchanging powers, nor has he come to fully accept them.

[Orphalesion]

Why the fuck did George decide to make this cat black, name it Balerion after the oldest and largest black dragon and call it a black bastard?

 

He could have made this cat a yellow one and name it Sunfyre after the Second Aegon’s dragon which would also be related to the Rhoynish sun in the Martell sigil.

 

Because there are black cats (which are generally perceived as more iconic and more atmospheric than the other colours) it was named by Targaryens and again "bastard" is not a uncommon word to call everything and everyone for a certain type of person. As to "black bastard" again, the cat is black and black is a evocative color in the Medieval mindset.

Why did h make Chataya a Summer Islander instead of Lysian or Myrish?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

 

Look at the language/lexicon specific to the wolf dreams.

 

Five they had been, and a sixth who stood aside. (5+1)

Four and one more, the white who has no voice. (4+1)

Four remained and one the white wolf could no longer sense.

 

The use of the number the word and indicates a number plus, not a number with an exception to that number. In the lexicon of the wolf dreams, if I write "five people and two that were late", there are seven people with two which arrived late, not five people of which two arrived late. So there are four and the one Ghost can no longer sense. (4+1)

 

I think that Jon is not as focused on the wolf dreams, ergo he's not as strong as Bran and Arya. Bran is very focused on them due to his disability and has a teacher, Arya is focused on it for the mental health/comfort of strength and companionship, and it is one of the few links she now has left to 'Arya Stark'. Jon has a lot on this plate and i don't think that he is as focused on his skinchanging powers, nor has he come to fully accept them.

Perhaps quoting the passage correctly shows the difference between this quote, and the others you've given, more clearly.

 

Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense.

 

Out of the six that there were originally, only four remained. One the wolf could no longer sense... But he remains, that's what the quote states. Grey Wind is dead, and Jon (and thus Ghost) know it. So including Grey Wind in this quote, would make little sense. 

 

Before the quoted passage, Ghost describes what Nymeria and Shaggydog are doing.. Shaggydog hunting, Nymeria singing to the moon. After the quoted passage, comes this:

 

The white wolf ran from it, racing toward the cave of night where the sun had hidden, his breath frosting in the air. On starless nights the great cliff was as black as stone, a darkness towering high above the wide world, but when the moon came out it shimmered pale and icy as a frozen stream. The wolf’s pelt was thick and shaggy, but when the wind blew along the ice no fur could keep the chill out. On the other side the wind was colder still, the wolf sensed. That was where his brother was, the grey brother who smelled of summer.

 

The wolf knows that Summer is on the other side of the Wall, but can't sense what he's doing (otherwise, he would have described it for all three above). 

 

 

The difference between the three quotes is the halt in the middle of the sentence,

 

 

He had a pack as well, once. Five they had been, and a sixth who stood aside. Somewhere down inside him were the sounds the men had given them to tell one from the other, but it was not by their sounds he knew them. He remembered their scents, his brothers and his sisters. They all had smelled alike, had smelled of pack, but each was different too.

His angry brother with the hot green eyes was near, the prince felt, though he had not seen him for many hunts. Yet with every sun that set he grew more distant, and he had been the last. The others were far scattered, like leaves blown by the wild wind.

Sometimes he could sense them, though, as if they were still with him, only hidden from his sight by a boulder or a stand of trees. He could not smell them, nor hear their howls by night, yet he felt their presence at his back... all but the sister they had lost. His tail drooped when he remembered her. Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice.

 

Summer/Bran here specify that there had been 6 wolves, but Lady was dead, so now there were only 5 where 6 had once been.

 

Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense.

 

There once were six, but now, only four remained... He himself, the two he described, and the last one, of whom he knows where he is, but can't sense him.

[Orphalesion]

 

Perhaps quoting the passage correctly shows the difference between this quote, and the others you've given, more clearly.

 

Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense.

 

Out of the six that there were originally, only four remained. One the wolf could no longer sense... But he remains, that's what the quote states. Grey Wind is dead, and Jon (and thus Ghost) know it. So including Grey Wind in this quote, would make little sense. 

 

Before the quoted passage, Ghost describes what Nymeria and Shaggydog are doing.. Shaggydog hunting, Nymeria singing to the moon. After the quoted passage, comes this:

 

The white wolf ran from it, racing toward the cave of night where the sun had hidden, his breath frosting in the air. On starless nights the great cliff was as black as stone, a darkness towering high above the wide world, but when the moon came out it shimmered pale and icy as a frozen stream. The wolf’s pelt was thick and shaggy, but when the wind blew along the ice no fur could keep the chill out. On the other side the wind was colder still, the wolf sensed. That was where his brother was, the grey brother who smelled of summer.

 

The wolf knows that Summer is on the other side of the Wall, but can't sense what he's doing (otherwise, he would have described it for all three above). 

 

 

The difference between the three quotes is the halt in the middle of the sentence,

 

 

He had a pack as well, once. Five they had been, and a sixth who stood aside. Somewhere down inside him were the sounds the men had given them to tell one from the other, but it was not by their sounds he knew them. He remembered their scents, his brothers and his sisters. They all had smelled alike, had smelled of pack, but each was different too.

His angry brother with the hot green eyes was near, the prince felt, though he had not seen him for many hunts. Yet with every sun that set he grew more distant, and he had been the last. The others were far scattered, like leaves blown by the wild wind.

Sometimes he could sense them, though, as if they were still with him, only hidden from his sight by a boulder or a stand of trees. He could not smell them, nor hear their howls by night, yet he felt their presence at his back... all but the sister they had lost. His tail drooped when he remembered her. Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice.

 

Summer/Bran here specify that there had been 6 wolves, but Lady was dead, so now there were only 5 where 6 had once been.

 

Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense.

 

There once were six, but now, only four remained... He himself, the two he described, and the last one, of whom he knows where he is, but can't sense him.

 

:agree: If the "one he could no longer sense" was Greywind, then why leave Lady out? It would be "Four remained.....and two the white wolf could no longer sense" The whole structure of the sentence tells you that the one Ghost could no longer sense was one of the four that still remained, imho.

[Mithras]

He had a pack as well, once. Five they had been, and a sixth who stood aside. Somewhere down inside him were the sounds the men had given them to tell one from the other, but it was not by their sounds he knew them. He remembered their scents, his brothers and his sisters. They all had smelled alike, had smelled of pack, but each was different too.

His angry brother with the hot green eyes was near, the prince felt, though he had not seen him for many hunts. Yet with every sun that set he grew more distant, and he had been the last. The others were far scattered, like leaves blown by the wild wind.

Sometimes he could sense them, though, as if they were still with him, only hidden from his sight by a boulder or a stand of trees. He could not smell them, nor hear their howls by night, yet he felt their presence at his back... all but the sister they had lost. His tail drooped when he remembered her. Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice.

 

 

This happened at the beginning of ASoS long before the Red Wedding. So, Grey Wind was still alive. And Ghost was beyond the Wall.

 

Therefore, Summer had no difficulty in sensing Ghost beyond the Wall.

 

And yet so many people think that the Wall blocks skinchanging.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

 

This happened at the beginning of ASoS long before the Red Wedding. So, Grey Wind was still alive. And Ghost was beyond the Wall.

 

Therefore, Summer had no difficulty in sensing Ghost beyond the Wall.

 

And yet so many people think that the Wall blocks skinchanging.

Explain to me then how Jon and Ghost can no longer feel each other when the Wall is between them.

 

In addition, the difference between Summer sensing Ghost, and Ghost not being able to sense Summer

 

Sometimes he could sense them, though, as if they were still with him, only hidden from his sight by a boulder or a stand of trees. He could not smell them, nor hear their howls by night, yet he felt their presence at his back... all but the sister they had lost. His tail drooped when he remembered her. Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice.

 

Summer isn't thinking about now I can sense only 5, or always I can sense us 5.... He says that sometimes, he can sense them, all but the one who had died. It says nothing about whether he is capable of sensing Ghost while Ghost was beyond the Wall.

[Jô Maltese]

 

Good work.  Sadly we know very little of the Martell's family tree. We don't even know the name of Doran's mom.

It does not really matter: marrying full sisters mean marriages between ¾ First Men blood, so Rhaenys is still ⅓ish  old blood at least.

[Mithras]

Explain to me then how Jon and Ghost can no longer feel each other when the Wall is between them.

 

In addition, the difference between Summer sensing Ghost, and Ghost not being able to sense Summer

 

Sometimes he could sense them, though, as if they were still with him, only hidden from his sight by a boulder or a stand of trees. He could not smell them, nor hear their howls by night, yet he felt their presence at his back... all but the sister they had lost. His tail drooped when he remembered her. Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice.

 

Summer isn't thinking about now I can sense only 5, or always I can sense us 5.... He says that sometimes, he can sense them, all but the one who had died. It says nothing about whether he is capable of sensing Ghost while Ghost was beyond the Wall.

 

Because Jon is an untrained warg and Ghost might have been inhabited by another being like Bloodraven who could cut the access to him. There are some instances where Ghost acts really strange, as if controlled by someone else. For example when he led Jon to the dragonglass cache.

 

“Them” in "Sometimes he could sense them" refers to the wolves except Shaggydog. Summer could feel Shaggydog's presence very well as he explained in the previous paragraph. “The others were far scattered.” The problem in sensing the others was the distance. But still, Summer could feel the presence at his back and knew that whether they were dead or alive.

[Dizzy Walker]

going back to the OP post,

 

 there was this Hand of the King that came from a family of strong warging ability that 

died in Kings Landing under stressful circumstances and may have felt he had important things to

accomplish before he died...

 

 no... don't think so......

[Blazfemur]

going back to the OP post,

 

 there was this Hand of the King that came from a family of strong warging ability that 

died in Kings Landing under stressful circumstances and may have felt he had important things to

accomplish before he died...

 

 no... don't think so......

 

didnt balerion exist during aerys' reign? his hand would be tywin

[Dizzy Walker]

going back to the OP post,

 

 there was this Hand of the King that came from a family of strong warging ability that 

died in Kings Landing under stressful circumstances and may have felt he had important things to

accomplish before he died...

 

 no... don't think so......

 

 

didnt balerion exist during aerys' reign? his hand would be tywin

I was thinking of much more recent history and not what you were looking for, sorry..

[Lady Blizzardborn]

going back to the OP post,

 

 there was this Hand of the King that came from a family of strong warging ability that 

died in Kings Landing under stressful circumstances and may have felt he had important things to

accomplish before he died...

 

 no... don't think so......

I don't really think of Ned as a cat person.