Refugee Crisis

[Crixus]

Is this a joke? FYI Pakistan isn't a sharia country. I should know, living here and working and wearing what I like while being a woman.

Ugh.

[baxus]

This is just hysteria.

 

No, it actually is not hysteria. It's a pretty accurate depiction of what's going on.

And I say that as someone who's lived through NATO airstrikes.

[lojzelote]

Is this a joke? FYI Pakistan isn't a sharia country. I should know, living here and working and wearing what I like while being a woman.

Ugh.

 

It's what media tell us.

 

"More Pakistani youth would prefer Islamic law or military rule than democracy, a survey suggests."

(At least it appears that the military rule is generally favored over Sharia, although that's not the system I would like to live under either.)

I don't know how valid the survey really is, but I'm not going to lie, it doesn't make me feel overly positive about their immigration to Europe.

[Crixus]

Regardless of that survey, religious parties have never been voted into power here. The actual mode of government beats a survey, I should think. Which has been a democracy since the last 8 years, not military rule.

Also, these refugees are mostly Syrian and African. We're not interchangeable, FYI.

[The King in Black]

 

It's what media tell us.

 

"More Pakistani youth would prefer Islamic law or military rule than democracy, a survey suggests."

(At least it appears that the military rule is generally favored over Sharia, although that's not the system I would like to live under either.)

I don't know how valid the survey really is, but I'm not going to lie, it doesn't make me feel overly positive about their immigration to Europe.

Context matters here. Democracy has consistently failed in Pakistan and the periods of stability have been found under military rule. Of course this is oversimplification that compeletly overlooks the pakistani Military's role in actively undermining democracy in the first place, but it's understandable why the youth are all crazy for their Army (understandable but wrong , but that's a different topic)

 

I have Pakistani friends blaming Israel for ISIS. So conspiracy theories are very much a thing
 Basically it's never their fault, it's always the fault of evil Juice/Great Satan America/Western Colonialism. The poverty that effects every country that tries to impose any sort of sharia law/hudood ordinance is never caused by the stupidity of trying to impose a legal system invented in the Dark Ages, but rather some conspiracy of outsiders trying to keep them poor for some nefarious reason.

So whilst it would be ridiculous to suggest that ISIS is smuggling in terrorists as refugees, it is not ridiculous to suggest that in 70 years time, when France is majority Muslim, the Louvre, Notre Dame, Chartres etc will all be destroyed, as the temple of Palmyra was destroyed, as the Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed.

So whilst that picture (and reading about the little boy) is sad, I want to protect my nieces, their daughters, any daughters I might have, any granddaughters I might have, any gay children I might have, any gay grandchildren I might have...

It's awful: wanting to be compassionate, but knowing that the long term consequences will be disastrous for my country as, letting British people in to the country was to the Aboriginals.

I need help reacting to something

[polishgenius]

Where did Pakistan even come into the conversation?

[Crixus]

King in black:

Yes. Also the last elected government was grossly corrupt; corruption is endemic here in fact. That's one reason people think the military as the lesser of two evils. Second, the army is currently performing a massive clean up against the Taliban and their ilk. This started after last year's horrific attack on an army school, that killed hundreds of children. It was a sort of last resort really and since, there have been sustained efforts to end this menace.
People are relieved and grateful that something is finally being done and give the current army chief credit. That doesn't automatically mean they want military rule though.
As for you wanting to react to something, just do what I did: smoke a fatty. Now I'm all calm and shit 😁

[Crixus]

Where did Pakistan even come into the conversation?

[lojzelote]

Regardless of that survey, religious parties have never been voted into power here. The actual mode of government beats a survey, I should think. Which has been a democracy since the last 8 years, not military rule.

Also, these refugees are mostly Syrian and African. We're not interchangeable, FYI.

I understand, but news like that make me a bit worried. Things can change.

 

If the second part is directed at me, I know that very well. It's just that you were asking why would people think that Sharia is popular in Pakistan.

[Crixus]

I wasn't though. I was referring to another post that mentioned Pakistani friends and went on to link that to countries with sharia.

Look, I loathe sharia and everything it represents; I can understand a fear of it and of people who want to make it a reality. I've seen some extremists yelling for it in the UK for instance.

Still doesn't change the fact that is a tiny minority of immigrants in western countries with the same chance of actually doing it that I would have if I tried making Greek mythology Pakistan's official
religion. This is hysteria, in my view.

[The guy from the Vale]

I wasn't though. I was referring to another post that mentioned Pakistani friends and went on to link that to countries with sharia.

Look, I loathe sharia and everything it represents; I can understand a fear of it and of people who want to make it a reality. I've seen some extremists yelling for it in the UK for instance.

Still doesn't change the fact that is a tiny minority of immigrants in western countries with the same chance of actually doing it that I would have if I tried making Greek mythology Pakistan's official
religion. This is hysteria, in my view.

 

Yes.

 

One should also keep in mind that while the loss of Palmyra is terrifying, Syria has been populated by a Muslim majority for over a millennium now. Same for Egypt, and the Pyramids still stand today. So Islam isn't the reason the city was destroyed; Islamism is. And a country with a functioning democracy, strong institutions and established separation of state and religion like France should be able to function with a Muslim majority, too. Many of them support the French state against Islamism, even; like the police officer who was killed on duty during the Charlie Hébdo attacks, or the clerk who protected the customers in the kosher supermarket the same day. Both are Muslims, after all.

[Crixus]

Exactly. Isis is doing what the Taliban did to the statues in Afghanistan, which again had been there for thousands of years, and hundreds with a Muslim majority. The vast majority of Muslims aren't Isis or the Taliban ffs.

[The Drunkard]

It's awful: wanting to be compassionate, but knowing that the long term consequences will be disastrous for my country as, letting British people in to the country was to the Aboriginals.

?

Because resettling <15,000 refugees a year is equivalent to the massacres, spread of disease, imprisonment, child theft, and an attempt at genocide that killed most of our aboriginal population. 

 

I mean, with all the shit that goes on in the detention centres it wouldn't be Australians that come out as the aborigines in that analogy.

[Northernmonkey]

Still doesn't change the fact that is a tiny minority of immigrants in western countries with the same chance of actually doing it that I would have if I tried making Greek mythology Pakistan's official
religion. This is hysteria, in my view.

 

Exactly. People who talk about Sharia law being implemented in European countries tend to be fear-mongering racists. It's just not going to happen. Even this pegida-style 'Islamification of Europe' stuff is a bit of a stretch. Only 5% of the UK population are Muslim and only 2% of MPs. They're also severely under-represented in the media and most walks of life. The idea that they're taking over is nonsense.

 

It's also sensationalist rubbish to talk about a Muslim majority in France when the current total is only around 7.5%, and many of them will be non-practicing anyway.

[Arakan]

Polishgenius, normally I would agree with you but not in this case.

Because what we are seeing in many European countries is a very dangerous development and rightwing/populist parties are indoctrinating people with their argumentation strategy. This more often than not happens quite subtle, esp on the local level.

Awareness is important and when users in this thread are using EXACTLY the same arguments as parties like Jobbik, Golden Dawn, Front National or NPD, then it MUST be openly pointed out.

[The Fallen]

I have Pakistani friends blaming Israel for ISIS. So conspiracy theories are very much a thing
 Basically it's never their fault, it's always the fault of evil Juice/Great Satan America/Western Colonialism. The poverty that effects every country that tries to impose any sort of sharia law/hudood ordinance is never caused by the stupidity of trying to impose a legal system invented in the Dark Ages, but rather some conspiracy of outsiders trying to keep them poor for some nefarious reason.
So whilst it would be ridiculous to suggest that ISIS is smuggling in terrorists as refugees, it is not ridiculous to suggest that in 70 years time, when France is majority Muslim, the Louvre, Notre Dame, Chartres etc will all be destroyed, as the temple of Palmyra was destroyed, as the Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed.
So whilst that picture (and reading about the little boy) is sad, I want to protect my nieces, their daughters, any daughters I might have, any granddaughters I might have, any gay children I might have, any gay grandchildren I might have...
It's awful: wanting to be compassionate, but knowing that the long term consequences will be disastrous for my country as, letting British people in to the country was to the Aboriginals.

Will your Pakistani friends be leading the Islamification charge?