US Politics - Why we can't have even mediocre things

[ThinkerX]

Too little too late, perhaps, but better than nothing:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-justice-dept-rules-aimed-at-prosecuting-corporate-executives/ar-AAe7zf6?li=AAa0dzB&ocid=msnclassic

WASHINGTON — Stung by years of criticism that it has coddled Wall Street criminals, the Justice Department issued new policies on Wednesday that prioritize the prosecution of individual employees — not just their companies — and put pressure on corporations to turn over evidence against their executives.

The new rules, issued in a memo to federal prosecutors nationwide, represent the first major policy announcement by Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch since she took office in April. The memo is a tacit acknowledgment of criticism that, despite securing record fines from major corporations, the Justice Department under President Obama has punished few executives involved in the housing crisis, the financial meltdown and corporate scandals.

“Corporations can only commit crimes through flesh-and-blood people,” Sally Q. Yates, the deputy attorney general and the author of the memo, said in an interview on Wednesday. “It’s only fair that the people who are responsible for committing those crimes be held accountable. The public needs to have confidence that there is one system of justice and it applies equally regardless of whether that crime occurs on a street corner or in a boardroom.”

Though limited in reach, the memo could erase some barriers to prosecuting corporate employees and inject new life into these high-profile investigations. The Justice Department often targets companies themselves and turns its eyes toward individuals only after negotiating a corporate settlement. In many cases, that means the offending employees go unpunished.

[Hayyoth]

Anyway so Trump decides deliver the smackdown to Ben Carson...coz he questioned the Donald's new found devotion to Christianity....and coz he can of course.

 

Carson, 63, said he doesn’t get the impression that faith is a big part of Trump’s life. “By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches and honor and life and that’s a very big part of who I am. I don’t get that impression, maybe I’m wrong but I don’t get that,” Carson said before his rally in Anaheim, California.

 

 

On CNN’s "New Day," Trump ripped into Carson, calling the retired neurosurgeon, who is credited with performing the first successful separation of conjoined twins, an “OK doctor."

"If you look at his past, which I've done, he was not a big man of faith," Trump said. "All of a sudden he's become this man of faith."

Trump leads Carson in a new CNN-ORC Poll released this morning with 32 percent, with Carson in second place with 19 percent.

“Ben Carson," Trump said," is not going to be your next president."

 

I've literally no idea what Trump is talking about while Carson's criticisms seem well justified. No doubt his completely irrational and stupid comments will give him another 5 point boost in the opinion polls.

[IheartIheartTesla]

One poll has Sanders neck and neck with Clinton in Iowa. All the usual qualifiers apply to early polling in small population states. I think he widened the gap in New Hampshire though.

 

I dont know what's going on with the GOP race. Huckabee and Cruz trying to insert themselves into the Kim Davis saga, Ben Carson doing basically nothing and rising in the polls (although he did go to Harlem, not sure it was reported in many news outlets) and Trump continuing to be Trump. Isnt there a CNN debate coming up? Hope they have Fiorina included as well, should be grand TV.

[Hayyoth]

One poll has Sanders neck and neck with Clinton in Iowa. All the usual qualifiers apply to early polling in small population states. I think he widened the gap in New Hampshire though.

 

I dont know what's going on with the GOP race. Huckabee and Cruz trying to insert themselves into the Kim Davis saga, Ben Carson doing basically nothing and rising in the polls (although he did go to Harlem, not sure it was reported in many news outlets) and Trump continuing to be Trump. Isnt there a CNN debate coming up? Hope they have Fiorina included as well, should be grand TV.

Biggest news of the week was Trump leading Clinton 45 to 40 in the national race, with 25% of blacks preferring the Donald. It might just be an outlier or a bad poll sampler, but 25%! Maybe Trump's positions on immigration and trade are gaining him traction? Or is it just his celebrity? Still if this is an actual thing the Dems should be worried, no way they can afford to lose a quarter of the black vote.

[Fez]

One poll has Sanders neck and neck with Clinton in Iowa. All the usual qualifiers apply to early polling in small population states. I think he widened the gap in New Hampshire though.

 

I dont know what's going on with the GOP race. Huckabee and Cruz trying to insert themselves into the Kim Davis saga, Ben Carson doing basically nothing and rising in the polls (although he did go to Harlem, not sure it was reported in many news outlets) and Trump continuing to be Trump. Isnt there a CNN debate coming up? Hope they have Fiorina included as well, should be grand TV.

 

I'm starting to get seriously worried about the Democratic side of things. I still think Clinton wins the nomination, Sanders has yet to do well in a single poll of a state where the Democratic electorate isn't white liberals. So even if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, I think he loses South Carolina and Nevada badly and then gets crushed in most places on Super Tuesday. And then its over.

 

The problem is, I know its stupid to look at general election polls this early, but Clinton is looking much, much weaker than she was a few months ago. Its not just the head-to-head polls either, its her personal favorability stuff too. A lot of it will depend on the GOP candidate of course, but I can see quite a few of them beating her at this point.

 

And if Sanders gets the nomination, I'm convinced he'll lose badly. Not 49-state blowout badly, those don't happen anymore and he'll get the standard Democratic states (except maybe Wisconsin). But, I think something like this map is his ceiling.

 

I'm not nearly high enough up the DC establishment food chain to get contacted for newspaper pull quotes (and I work policy, not politics), but if I was, I'd absolutely be one of those folks in this New York Times article talking about trying to pull in Biden, Kerry, or Gore at last minute to rescue things a la JFK (he didn't launch his campaign until January 2, 1960; although, the first primaries back then were in March).

 

None are great options, although I would be thrilled about a Gore campaign, but after the 2010 and 2014 elections there just isn't a strong bench of other options.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Fez - the problem is that this was supposed to be Hillary's race.  And now she's not looking so great, and well. . . But, on the other hand, at least on the Dem side there won't be the brutal politicking of a multi-candidate primary circus.  I assume the Republican field will narrow sharply very soon, but in the meantime, that's kind of a side show too.  All very fascinating.

[DanteGabriel]

Clinton has the resume, name recognition, and locked-up support (financial and political). But she's not good at campaigns.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I read piece on either 538 or Vox a while ago that shows there are lot of Republicans who agree with Trump: they like government pensions and Social Security and Medicare, but don't like immigration and other socially progressive causes. In fact, it's a significantly higher percentage of people than who actually support Trump in the polls, which might indicate that Trump's buffoonish, offensive behavior could be hurting him.

 

ETA: Hillary Clinton always seemed much better at the cigar-smoke-filled back-room type politics than the stump speeches and state fairs type politics. Her husband can compensate for that weakness somewhat, and I think that once the candidates are settled and she has the full Democratic machine behind her, it won't matter as much.

[Fez]

Fez - the problem is that this was supposed to be Hillary's race.  And now she's not looking so great, and well. . . But, on the other hand, at least on the Dem side there won't be the brutal politicking of a multi-candidate primary circus.  I assume the Republican field will narrow sharply very soon, but in the meantime, that's kind of a side show too.  All very fascinating.

 

Yeah, it was, and that's the problem. Its all a matter of timing. If one of those guys enters now and Clinton doesn't fall apart, all they're doing is wasting their time and splitting the party enough that Sanders might very well sneak through with the nomination. But if they hold off until a point where Clinton really is completely collapsing, they might easily not have enough time to get a campaign set up or get their name on the primary ballots. There could always be a deal made at the convention, but that's never a good look.

 

The Democratic establishment made a mistake dismissing Clinton's weaknesses and clearing the field for her. I get why they did; her weaknesses are stupid and an even moderately intelligent electorate would ignore nonsense like these emails. But that's not the world we live in.

 

At least I comfortably enjoy the Republican primary for now. I tend to think we won't see many drop-outs for a while. They'll all try to hold on at least until Iowa, to see if Trump's support is real or not. Because if its not, damn near anything could happen. But if it is, I think we'll very quickly end up with under 10 candidates, only 4 or 5 which have any real shot.

[Hayyoth]

 

Yeah, it was, and that's the problem. Its all a matter of timing. If one of those guys enters now and Clinton doesn't fall apart, all they're doing is wasting their time and splitting the party enough that Sanders might very well sneak through with the nomination. But if they hold off until a point where Clinton really is completely collapsing, they might easily not have enough time to get a campaign set up or get their name on the primary ballots. There could always be a deal made at the convention, but that's never a good look.

 

The Democratic establishment made a mistake dismissing Clinton's weaknesses and clearing the field for her. I get why they did; her weaknesses are stupid and an even moderately intelligent electorate would ignore nonsense like these emails. But that's not the world we live in.

 

At least I comfortably enjoy the Republican primary for now. I tend to think we won't see many drop-outs for a while. They'll all try to hold on at least until Iowa, to see if Trump's support is real or not. Because if its not, damn near anything could happen. But if it is, I think we'll very quickly end up with under 10 candidates, only 4 or 5 which have any real shot.

They picked her because they assumed the GOP had already decided on Jeb. Another momma jean wearing beta male who'd be too polite to call his opponent a bad name. There are millions of Republican voters who'd literally cut off their left ear lobes than vote for Jeb fucking Bush. Clinton would have stormed home in a landslide if she'd been facing him. He was going to get the nom simply by sucking up all the money and spending his opponents into oblivion, Trump has been useful because he's totally wrecked that strategy simply by saying non PC outrageous shit that's garnered him hundreds of millions in free publicity totally destroying any spending advantange Jeb was counting on. Instead we've been left to compare the candidates and Jeb looks hestitant, unmotivated and weak. He's done, gone, finished. He'll end up well down the field in Iowa and his supporters, who're backing him purely for pay to play reasons after all, will abandon him for Rubio or Walker. You don't need a strong candidate if the opposition are putting up a milquetoast cuck.

 

Anyway it says a lot that the great white dope for the Democratic Party is Joe Biden. Joe Biden? That's honestly the best they got?

[DanteGabriel]

 

Anyway it says a lot that the great white dope for the Democratic Party is Joe Biden. Joe Biden? That's honestly the best they got?

 

No, but thanks for telling us again what The Left thinks. Based on your extensive field research, which of the varieties of Social Justice Warrior you've identified is Biden? Marxist, or Deep Green Environmentalist?

[Kelli Fury]

 
Yeah, it was, and that's the problem. Its all a matter of timing. If one of those guys enters now and Clinton doesn't fall apart, all they're doing is wasting their time and splitting the party enough that Sanders might very well sneak through with the nomination. But if they hold off until a point where Clinton really is completely collapsing, they might easily not have enough time to get a campaign set up or get their name on the primary ballots. There could always be a deal made at the convention, but that's never a good look.
 
The Democratic establishment made a mistake dismissing Clinton's weaknesses and clearing the field for her. I get why they did; her weaknesses are stupid and an even moderately intelligent electorate would ignore nonsense like these emails. But that's not the world we live in.
 
At least I comfortably enjoy the Republican primary for now. I tend to think we won't see many drop-outs for a while. They'll all try to hold on at least until Iowa, to see if Trump's support is real or not. Because if its not, damn near anything could happen. But if it is, I think we'll very quickly end up with under 10 candidates, only 4 or 5 which have any real shot.

Her weaknesses with the middle and the right are pretty stupid, but she has very real weaknesses with the left. She was an initial Iraq war supporter, she was super late to the party on marriage equality, her big money corporate support is troubling. If you look at her record on major pet issues to the left, her current positions don't align with her senate record. This makes her seem hypocritical and untrustworthy

[Commodore]

No, but thanks for telling us again what The Left thinks.

This, it's tiresome. A fair critic should be able to restate their target's views such that the target would approve, before criticizing them.

Why I could never watch Colbert's conservative minstrel show.

[Fez]

 

No, but thanks for telling us again what The Left thinks. Based on your extensive field research, which of the varieties of Social Justice Warrior you've identified is Biden? Marxist, or Deep Green Environmentalist?

 

No reason why he shouldn't be though. He's the sitting two-term vice president with a 36 year career in the senate before that filled with accomplishments. He has weaknesses, sure, but there's a reason why he was used so extensively on the campaign trail for Obama. He's got that folksy charm down pat.

 

 

Her weaknesses with the middle and the right are pretty stupid, but she has very real weaknesses with the left. She was an initial Iraq war supporter, she was super late to the party on marriage equality, her big money corporate support is troubling. If you look at her record on major pet issues to the left, her current positions don't align with her senate record. This makes her seem hypocritical and untrustworthy

 

I won't dispute that, and its why I was fine with Sanders being the race to force her more to the left. But I take the stance that, barring the nominee being someone like Cuomo, almost all of the left will always turn out for the Democratic candidate in the end. 

 

When Democrats lose, its not because liberals didn't turn out, its because minorities and youth didn't or because the center went to the right.

[Hayyoth]

 

No, but thanks for telling us again what The Left thinks. Based on your extensive field research, which of the varieties of Social Justice Warrior you've identified is Biden? Marxist, or Deep Green Environmentalist?

He's a bit slow, mentally I mean, Ok he's an idiot ...so there's that. Plus the dude is creepy as fuck around women. You must have someone else surely?

[Maithanet]

Her weaknesses with the middle and the right are pretty stupid, but she has very real weaknesses with the left. She was an initial Iraq war supporter, she was super late to the party on marriage equality, her big money corporate support is troubling. If you look at her record on major pet issues to the left, her current positions don't align with her senate record. This makes her seem hypocritical and untrustworthy

Plus, this is looking like a GREAT year for the "political outsider" narrative.  There's a reason that Sanders and Trump and Carson seem to be catching fire while the establishment candidates are struggling.  That typically fades some once elections start and things like campaign organization gives the establishment a boost, but it might not be enough. 

[TerraPrime]

Re: Hayyoth

 

They picked her because they assumed the GOP had already decided on Jeb. Another momma jean wearing beta male who'd be too polite to call his opponent a bad name.

 

You don't need a strong candidate if the opposition are putting up a milquetoast cuck.

 

I find the machismo demonstrated in the use of terms like "beta male" and "cuck" to be both revolting and nauseating. It's like someone from the PUA community found his way into conservative politics and deployed the same set of sexist ideological framework to analyze politics. This is, sadly, not uncommon, as anyone who has experienced or witnessed school yard bullying can attest. I will never support Jeb as a political candidate, but I also strongly oppose the attempt to verbally emasculate him just because you disagree with his politics. The right wing's infantile obsession in elevating bullies into heroes is part of what makes the Liberals recoil in disgust over their ideology.

[DanteGabriel]

This, it's tiresome. A fair critic should be able to restate their target's views such that the target would approve, before criticizing them.

Why I could never watch Colbert's conservative minstrel show.

 

You'd have a point if Hayyoth was a fair critic. And I dispute the notion that Biden is the dreamed-of alternative to Clinton. If anything, that label probably belongs on Sanders.

 

Bonus points for calling Colbert's satire a "minstrel show" though. Wow.

[Hayyoth]

No reason why he shouldn't be though. He's the sitting two-term vice president with a 36 year career in the senate before that filled with accomplishments. He has weaknesses, sure, but there's a reason why he was used so extensively on the campaign trail for Obama. He's got that folksy charm down pat.

 

Yeah I don't think '36 years in the Senate and 2 terms as VP' is going to be much of selling point to swing voters this cycle. Obama got elected because he was inexperienced and not tainted by DC corruption, not despite it. Trump is popular because he's coming from outside of politics. In the present climate Americans like themselves an outsider, picking a creepy old man, coz experience, isn't likely to end well.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Re: Hayyoth

 

 

I find the machismo demonstrated in the use of terms like "beta male" and "cuck" to be both revolting and nauseating. It's like someone from the PUA community found his way into conservative politics and deployed the same set of sexist ideological framework to analyze politics. This is, sadly, not uncommon, as anyone who has experienced or witnessed school yard bullying can attest. I will never support Jeb as a political candidate, but I also strongly oppose the attempt to verbally emasculate him just because you disagree with his politics. The right wing's infantile obsession in elevating bullies into heroes is part of what makes the Liberals recoil in disgust over their ideology.

 

It's not just "like" that someone in the PUA community found his way into conservative politics - Hayyoths "beta male" critique of Jeb is straight-up lifted from an actual PUA commentary on conservative politics. The actual argument made in favor of Trump over Jeb is that Trump's wife is hot and Jeb's wife is ugly, plus she's a foreigner. I almost included a link to the site (the PUA is "Heartiste" and is post is easily googleable) but even I have standards. 

 

**Edited to add

 

That being said, a rush to discussions of the lowest common denominator is kind of an inevitable consequence of "horse race-ism." If you think people are actually making political choices based on deplorable things, and you want to talk incessantly about the horse race of politics, how do you avoid a discussion of the gutter?