Would Joanna be disappointed in Tywin?

[A spoon of knife and fork]

 
Not really. Did he have a weapon pointed at him? Did his father threaten to kill him? Or even harm him?
 
No he was told that she was a prostitute and took his turn. Tyrion is responsible for his own actions. 13 year olds are capable of rape as well you know.

Why on earth are you making this about tyrion.

As I said The question at hand is whether JOHANNA would be horrified by what TYWIN did there. Tyrions agency or lack thereof is immaterial when it comes to Johannas opinion of Tywin's action.

Which was by the way to order dozens of men at arms and his son to rape a barely conscious woman - and his daughter in law - in public.

Stop deflecting.

[GeorgeIAF]

She would be too preoccupied with Aerys.

[John Doe]

Apart from the Tysha incident he was a decent father until Tyrion demanded CR.

[Crow's eye in the sky]

Let's see here...

That Tysha incident

That conveniently arranged chance for Tyrion to die at the Green Fork

That matter of Tyrion's trial

That Shae incident

Joanna would be horrified at Tywin's all around general fuckery

 

[purple-eyes]

If she survived, I think aerys would keep flirting with her, then rebellion will be led by Tywin. 

No need to wait for rhaegar. 

Tyrion would have a better life. 

Maybe cersei and Jaime's relationship would be stopped. 

 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Let's see here...

That Tysha incident

That conveniently arranged chance for Tyrion to die at the Green Fork

That matter of Tyrion's trial

That Shae incident

Joanna would be horrified at Tywin's all around general fuckery

 

How exactly do you know this? She may have been just as ambitious and elitist as Tywin (and the majority of the nobility was)

 

1) What Tywin did to Tysha was disgusting but there is not a chance that Johanna would have allowed that marriage to stand. Not even Aegon V, who was fond of the smallfolk, was happy or accepting of his son marrying a commoner. That marriage would have ended and both would have been punished even with Joanna calling the shots, just not as harsh.

 

What Tywin did to Tysha was reprehensible, but do you really think Joanna would care about what happened to some homeless peasant? He did far worse to the Reynes and Tarbecks, actual nobles, before they were married and that did not stop them from having a loving committed relationship.

 

Joanna was said to rule from the Westerlands, it is heavily implied that their marriage was of equals (as much as it can be in Westeros) and yet we hear no problem from her of the treatment of Tytos' paramour and her walk of shame.

 

2.No he didn't. I'd say go read one of the many, many subjects on that incident so you can properly understand what happened but they have probably all been purged.

 

Short answer, if you re-read those two chapters you will see that Tywin offered him multiple other assignments to which Tyrion turned down, the Mountain Clans (not Tywin) demanded that he fight with them to fulfil his promise and even before the battle Tywin told Tyrion that he would give someone else his command role.

You know that dude Bronn who constantly saves Tyrions life? Paid for by Tywins money, Podrick who saves his life in the Blackwater? Given to him by Tywin. The many Lannister escorts and sellswords who bring him safely to Kings Landing? Again, he has Tywin to thank for that.

 

There is always going to be danger in the battlefield but Tywin no more planned for Tyrion to die in battle then he did Jaime by giving him command of his other army.

 

3) You mean the matter of offering to send him to the Wall? If Joanna was alive do you think she would be any happier with Tyrion, the man everyone (including Kevan who likes Tyrion) suspects him to be guilty of killing her Grandson Joffrey? Tyrion who admitted to threatening the lives of both Joffrey and Tommen over a whore?

 

4) Sleeping with a whore? Sure. Most wives would, if she was alive. Would he be sleeping with whores if she was alive? Possible, but who knows. Depends on his sexual appetite.

 

5) Tywin did not suddenly star doing 'fuckery' after she died. He was doing so before and during their marriage and from all accounts it was a happy one.

 

[Lion of the West]

I think that she would be dissappointed and angry with how Tywin managed his family and raising his children. But while I think that she might have cautioned a less drastic approach, I don't think that she would, as a noble and the Lady of Casterly Rock, have much issues with how Tywin handled people outside the House.

 

But I could of course be wrong.

[The Commentator]

For what?  Nothing he did recently as he ended Robb's Rebellion if that's what you mean. 

[TheOne-EyedHound]

Daughter a queen, husband wins two wars; yeah she's happy. 

Tywin destroyed the Reynes before Joanna, so she already knew what he was capable of, but I doubt she saw that Tywin during her life with him. You could call Tywin's war methods harsh, but it's obvious that he cares about his family and the Westerlands. He's even willing to compromise with rebel houses in TWO5K, a war he wanted no part of. You can't blame Tywin for being harsh it was effective his whole life, when it comes to war it's all about morale,intimidation, yada yada. Joanna probably never got to see War Tywin. 

[Dornishwoman's Husband]

I wish there was a moment where Tyrion asks Tywin would he name him as an heir to Castelry Rock if he hasn't been born as a dwarf, or if he has been a dwarf, but his mother had survived.

[TimJames]

Joanna's reaction could be anything from hating Tywin to being disappointed in him to being sad that he never learned what was really important.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Joanna's reaction could be anything from hating Tywin to being disappointed in him to being sad that he never learned what was really important.

What do you think Joanna thought was 'really important'?

[redtree]

Furious at some (like what he did to Tysha) but not disappointed. I think that she must be an intelligent and ambitious woman, there's no way Tywin would be ruled over by some mere pretty face. And i believe that she did have an affair with Aerys but after Aerys married to Rhaella they stopped because what's the point ? Her chance to be queen had turned to 0 after that, at least back then Aerys wasn't as crazy as Rhaegar

[TimJames]

What do you think Joanna thought was 'really important'?

Family?

If Tyrion was Eddard or Rickard's son he wouldn't have been so mistreated.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Family?

If Tyrion was Eddard or Rickard's son he wouldn't have been so mistreated.

 

eh?

 

I thought this was about Joanna?

And you have no idea how Rickard would have reacted either. Somehow I doubt that Rickard would have allowed any of his 13 year old children to run off and marry a commoner.

 

And outside of Tysha, an awful act, I am not really seeing a lot of mistreatment for the world he lives in. Tyrion has lived a pretty pampered life, we only have to look at Penny and the actual hardships she has had to endure to see that.

[kimim]

She'd have been disappointed in Tywin's ignorance of twincest. She knew about it, and separated them. Tywin is so distant, that he doesn't ever figure it out, which means he does nothing about it, which endangers him and his family.

idk if Joanna would have loved Tyrion, but my assumption would be that she would. Plenty of Lannisters like Tyrion: his brother, his uncle, his aunt, probably others, so why wouldn't his mother? If she grew fond of him from whatever afterlife she landed in, I don't see her being terribly pleased with how Tywin treats him, as Tywin is crazy inconsistent there. imo that's why Tyrion marries Tysha: It's his way of telling his family to go fuck itself. I think it's likely that Joanna would blame Tywin and Cersei for this, as Joanna wouldn't be any happier about Tyrion's marriage to Tysha than Tywin. As to how Tywin solves the situation: I'm finding it difficult to believe that anyone, male/female/mother/total stranger would find Tywin's manner of annulling that marriage acceptable.

edit re Tywin's behavior: idk what Joanna would think about Tywin's decision to kill Rhaegar's kids. On the one hand, it's cruel, but it's also wise. Those kids would be a danger to the Baratheon regime.

re RW: Same thing. RW is cruel, but Tywin does it in a way that places the blame on the Boltons and the Freys. RW ends the war. idk. Joanna might be horrified. And then, this could be the kind of thing she might have suggested. We don't know her at all.

 

 

[Jaime4Brienne]

I read most of the posts and didn't see this mentioned. Jaime's aunt tells him that Tyrion is Tywin's son which some people think means Jaime and Cersie are secret Targs but I always took to mean that he was like his mother and not like his father. If you follow that premise then I think she'd be sadly disappointed on how her family turned out and most of that was due to what Tywin did and didn't do.

[Lord Fauntleroy]

Considering we don't know how she could have reacted to Tyrion I think that discussion is moot. 

On other matters, surely she would be disappointed on the twincest continuation. She obviously wanted to prevent it, and Tywin was so blind to it he allowed it to continue when he easily could have stopped it by making Cersei and Jaime marry the Martells as Joanna intended.

 

 Speaking of, he kind of shit all over his dead wife by breaking up her marriage arrangements, no?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Considering we don't know how she could have reacted to Tyrion I think that discussion is moot. 

On other matters, surely she would be disappointed on the twincest continuation. She obviously wanted to prevent it, and Tywin was so blind to it he allowed it to continue when he easily could have stopped it by making Cersei and Jaime marry the Martells as Joanna intended.

Neither was the heir of Dorne. They may have all ended up living at the Rock and continuing the incest. Somehow I don't see Oberyn being any more faithful or discreet than Robert was nor do I see Jaime abandoning his feelings for Cersei because of Elia.

And of course Tywin was blind to it, the twins were largely separated after Joanna's death with Jaime being at Crakehall while Cersei was at Kings Landing and then them being both at Kings Landing while Tywin ruled the West.

 

 Speaking of, he kind of shit all over his dead wife by breaking up her marriage arrangements, no?

Possibly.

 

"Just so. It was my belief that the mothers had cooked up this plot between them. Squire Squishlips and his ilk and the various pimply young maidens who'd been paraded before me were the almonds before the feast, meant only to whet our appetites. The main course was to be served at Casterly Rock."

It is also possible that Joanna never revealed this to Tywin or he never agree to marry twins to the much older Martells(Elia was 10 years older than Jaime). Tywin had made no secret of his intention to marry his daughter to Rhaegar.

 

In the medieval world the Head of the House gets final say on the marriages of his children (and other family members) and there is no mention of Tywin having agreed to this match while Joanna was alive so I'm not sure that you could call it Tywin 'shitting' on her.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Considering we don't know how she could have reacted to Tyrion I think that discussion is moot. 

On other matters, surely she would be disappointed on the twincest continuation. She obviously wanted to prevent it, and Tywin was so blind to it he allowed it to continue when he easily could have stopped it by making Cersei and Jaime marry the Martells as Joanna intended.

Neither was the heir of Dorne. They may have all ended up living at the Rock and continuing the incest. Somehow I don't see Oberyn being any more faithful or discreet than Robert was nor do I see Jaime abandoning his feelings for Cersei because of Elia.

And of course Tywin was blind to it, the twins were largely separated after Joanna's death with Jaime being at Crakehall while Cersei was at Kings Landing and then them being both at Kings Landing while Tywin ruled the West.

 

 Speaking of, he kind of shit all over his dead wife by breaking up her marriage arrangements, no?

Possibly.

 

"Just so. It was my belief that the mothers had cooked up this plot between them. Squire Squishlips and his ilk and the various pimply young maidens who'd been paraded before me were the almonds before the feast, meant only to whet our appetites. The main course was to be served at Casterly Rock."

It is also possible that Joanna never revealed this to Tywin or he never agree to marry twins to the much older Martells(Elia was 10 years older than Jaime). Tywin had made no secret of his intention to marry his daughter to Rhaegar.

 

In the medieval world the Head of the House gets final say on the marriages of his children (and other family members) and there is no mention of Tywin having agreed to this match while Joanna was alive so I'm not sure that you could call it Tywin 'shitting' on her.