WinterRaven Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I'm starting to delve into the Fake Aegon theory and I just thought of something. The direction that the show has gone in seems to be completely ignoring Young Griff, which means no Aegon or Fake Aegon (whichever the case may be). If Aegon really is fake in the books, then we have a reason for Varys' actions other than the fact that he is trying to fight "for the realm". On the TV show though, we have no such explanation for his plotting. What are Varys' plans on the show, if not to put a fake Targaryen on the throne that he and Illyrio can control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Can't say i ever believed Varys' motivation that he was 'fighting for the realm', I think there was something else at work in his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Can't say i ever believed Varys' motivation that he was 'fighting for the realm', I think there was something else at work in his actions. can you expand on that a bit? I have always questioned the "for the realm" thing myself. At first I thought maybe he wanted to bring down the religion of Raloo because that was what happened to his man tackle, but I knew that was way too far fetched as well. I can't tell what the point of fAegon is unless he is actually related to Varys and or Ilyrio and to me that would make their motivation the same as Littlefinger- ruling the realm by way of a pawn to keep their own mits clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I don't know, its more of a feeling than anything.One of the very few things we know about Varys' past is that he was mutliated by a 'wizard' and he has a sort of hatred for magic. Is his main motivation to rid magic from the world in the same way the Citadel is? Is he in fact doing the opposite? Is he a secret red god supporter and wanting to bring forward a dragon fire prophesy.He seems to want to install Aegon for his own reasons, but I've not really understood how Aegon is a better ruler than anyone else just because he is a Targ, so I doubt Varys is really doing it for 'the good of the realm'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Agrippa Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I think the best theory is that I have for all of this is that varys at least in the show has something to do with magic. What that might be, idk. Varys is one of the harder to pin down because he just like LF is clearly playing is a whole another game. Maybe Varys intends to destroy magic, maybe varys intends to embrace it. You can make arguements for both. His book plot I have a feeling is inline with stopping the others or helping them. I am still convinced the others have allies in Westeros, we just don't know who yet. Most would say Bolton, but Varys seems to be a candidate since sitting a blackfrye on the throne can't be his only goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I think the best theory is that I have for all of this is that varys at least in the show has something to do with magic. What that might be, idk. Varys is one of the harder to pin down because he just like LF is clearly playing is a whole another game. Maybe Varys intends to destroy magic, maybe varys intends to embrace it. You can make arguements for both. His book plot I have a feeling is inline with stopping the others or helping them. I am still convinced the others have allies in Westeros, we just don't know who yet. Most would say Bolton, but Varys seems to be a candidate since sitting a blackfrye on the throne can't be his only goal.Are the Others the sort of 'thing' that would need assistance or undercover agents. I see it more as a force of nature. Like Gravity. Gravity doesn't need people on the inside helping it out, its just there and its pretty hard to fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Isn't part of the Aegon Blackfyre theory that he always shaves his head to hide his Valyrian features? I remember the part about Illyrio marrying one of the female descendants of the Blackfyre line and that Aegon is actually his son. But I swear I remember reading about Varys's hair being important too. So many theories and variations to theories, I'm loosing track. I do know that if Varys is genuine about his hatred for magic than backing Dany makes no sense since she hatched her Dragons (which themselves are seen as magical beings.) with blood magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Isn't part of the Aegon Blackfyre theory that he always shaves his head to hide his Valyrian features? I remember the part about Illyrio marrying one of the female descendants of the Blackfyre line and that Aegon is actually his son. But I swear I remember reading about Varys's hair being important too. So many theories and variations to theories, I'm loosing track. I do know that if Varys is genuine about his hatred for magic than backing Dany makes no sense since she hatched her Dragons (which themselves are seen as magical beings.) with blood magic. To be honest I never liked any of these Blackfyre theories, they all feel a little convoluted and rely on introducing a load of story elements that haven't really even been hinted at in the show. All possible I guess, and we'll have to see what happens with the Tower of Joy stuff this season, but I think Varys overall aim might be something bigger than House to House rivalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhodan Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 To be honest I never liked any of these Blackfyre theories, they all feel a little convoluted and rely on introducing a load of story elements that haven't really even been hinted at in the show. All possible I guess, and we'll have to see what happens with the Tower of Joy stuff this season, but I think Varys overall aim might be something bigger than House to House rivalry. In the book, however, it might seem that entire Blackfyre history exists precisely for this storyline. As for Varys´s intentions, I don´t know if it can be something with magic, considering that until recently, it wasnt really thing in Westeros, even in Essoss it was quite exotical and even him doesn´t seem to know much about it. Based on what he says, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I'm absolutely positive that the show won't include Aegon but that has little to do with his importance in the main story. They have barely worried about mentioning Rhaegar, who is highly important, why would they give time to his "son"? Also, considering they believe we're idiots that can't tell Asha from Osha, I'm sure they also have the idea that we won't be able to distinguish him from Jon Snow.Now, when GoT entered in preproduction, Dance hadn't yet been published. They didn't know what Varys' plans were when they included the scene in which he talks to Ilyrio. By the time Season 1 and book 5 were released, we and they just were told about Aegon's existence. I suppose they weren't into that plot and decided to ditch it (because this show isn't about things happening in the books, but about things that happen in the book and they like). Sadly, they couldn't just eliminate Varys' "mysterious" ways and they simply reboot it with him supporting Dany, even though he had been shown working AGAINST her on screen. There's not much mystery about Varys: they simply didn't know what to do with him without Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 It's difficult to judge importance based on the show. Arya hasn't remembered Nymeria, and she's quite important to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 If Aegon isn't in the show at all, which seems pretty likely at this point, its almost certain he will have very little importance to the endgame of the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I never noticed, but the name Varys sounds pretty Valyrian, was GRRM really trying to make his motives more obvious with his name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 If Aegon isn't in the show at all, which seems pretty likely at this point, its almost certain he will have very little importance to the endgame of the books. Maybe not endgame, but he certainly will be important in TWOW. My guess is that instead of "dance of dragons 2.0" between Dany and Aegon (backed by most of kingslanding) they are going to simply have a quick confrontation between ISIS (I mean show version of the faith militant ) and Dany (representing pseudo feminism), where dany's dragons spews fire and the battle is over, dany takes kingslanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Depends what you mean by important. GRRM isn't adverse to wasting everyone's time with some red herring storylines that don't amount to much. It's possible he's using F/Aegon as a way of covering up the obvious heritage of Jon. It might be nothing more than a mild storyline diversion like other parts that the show has omitted, like Quentyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Depends what you mean by important. GRRM isn't adverse to wasting everyone's time with some red herring storylines that don't amount to much. It's possible he's using F/Aegon as a way of covering up the obvious heritage of Jon. It might be nothing more than a mild storyline diversion like other parts that the show has omitted, like Quentyn. Quentyn might have felt like a waste of time, but it made a significant political impact! After what happened to Quentyn Martells will not be supporting Dany, while before that storyline they were an obvious supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 that doesn't make it feel like any less of a waste of time. The point still stands however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 that doesn't make it feel like any less of a waste of time. The point still stands however.No it doesn't. I just showed that the storyline wasn't a waste of time, it did lead to something significant. You could say it was drawn out unnecessarily but the whole storyline was not a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think Dany is gonna come out of the fight with Aegon looking quite bad, and that's one of the reasons for ditching that plotline. D&D don't do moral nuance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think the end of Game of Thrones and ASOIAF will have very few similarities. Who sits the Iron thone among them. I think in the books, Aegon will obtain it but no hold it. Time will tell but D&D, while still having to make changes from the books, unless GRRM fooled them or did not known himself, decided to cut Aegon as he will not be the last man standing and was not introduced until book 5, just like they cut Arianne who was not introduced until book 4. Many of the same characters will die, marry, etc in both but the manners and persons they interact with are obviously very different. Just look at Sansa/Fansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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