Sansa Theory-Crafting for Season 6 (MAJOR SPOILERS)

[Lord Friendzone]

I agree. Sansa will not be QitN as long as Rickon is alive. 

But he might not be alive for long.

I think LF will betray Rickon. He is very likely to do this because his power grab via Sansa depends on Rickon being dead...which he thought he already was. So he would tell Ramsay where to find Rickon.

I think Rickon and Osha are likely to be the ones Ramsay "displays" flayed during the big Northern battle.

With Rickon's death the North will be divided. Some may know of Robb's will and back Jon. Others will back Sansa because she is the legit daughter of Ned and Jon is not (his parentage may not be known yet, or Jon may not tell everyone). To avoid conflict, Sansa and Jon will come to some kind of agreement which may or may not involve marriage.

Rickon's death would certainly makes situation in the North much more interesting and complicated. But no, I can't see them killing yet another Stark and not after Rickon's apperance after such a time. Robb's will never mentioned or hinted at in the show and they will hardly introduce it without them ever mentioning it.

Rickon is not the one on the cross that will be burned. That was cofirmed by Sue from WOTW. It will be someone else.

I don't think Jon and Sansa marriage is on the cards in any scenario.

[Hippocras]

Rickon's death would certainly makes situation in the North much more interesting and complicated. But no, I can't see them killing yet another Stark and not after Rickon's apperance after such a time. Robb's will never mentioned or hinted at in the show and they will hardly introduce it without them ever mentioning it.

Rickon is not the one on the cross that will be burned. That was cofirmed by Sue from WOTW. It will be someone else.

I don't think Jon and Sansa marriage is on the cards in any scenario.

I missed that confirmation. Thanks for the info. I guess the next best guess is that it is Brienne and Pod. That would make me sad because I always thought those two had much longer arcs. But I very much doubt that it would be Sansa or Jon, and it has to be someone that Sansa and/or Jon cares about.

 

As for Robb's will, it doesn't matter IMO if it was previously mentioned in show world. It could be shown in a vision if necessary, or a will could be produced by a surviving bannerman leaving the question of its legitimacy open. This would work since some Northerners are bound to question its lefitimacy anyway. And even if there is no will ever mentioned, there is a reasonable case to be made for some Northerners to back Jon over Sansa: he likely has an army of wildlings only he has any control over, and he has proven that he is loyal and has the right priorities.

[Hippocras]

I still don't think Rickon survives until the end though. He might, but I think the Starks may start winning some from here on but it will not be all smooth sailing. Rickon is too much of a pawn, and the lack of POV from him ever seems significant.

[Scorpion92]

I missed that confirmation. Thanks for the info. I guess the next best guess is that it is Brienne and Pod. That would make me sad because I always thought those two had much longer arcs. But I very much doubt that it would be Sansa or Jon, and it has to be someone that Sansa and/or Jon cares about.

 

As for Robb's will, it doesn't matter IMO if it was previously mentioned in show world. It could be shown in a vision if necessary, or a will could be produced by a surviving bannerman leaving the question of its legitimacy open. This would work since some Northerners are bound to question its lefitimacy anyway. And even if there is no will ever mentioned, there is a reasonable case to be made for some Northerners to back Jon over Sansa: he likely has an army of wildlings only he has any control over, and he has proven that he is loyal and has the right priorities.

Brienne and Podrick will not be the next victims too because they are spotted in the Riverlands with Jaime and Bronn this season.

I actually agree that Rickon is not long for this world. His main value to the story is that he is the only male heir of Eddard Stark that can continue the line and he is technically next King in the North as Robb's heir.

That is why I believe that he will bite it this season because I think Jon will become new Lord of Winterfell which was foreshadowed and hinted with Stannis last season. The only way it can happen is if Rickon dies.

But before he dies he also needs to legitimize Jon as a Stark, which only kings can do. I think before the batle with Boltons and rallying and leading northerners and wildlings, Jon will be legitimized as a Stark (no one except Littlefinger will back up Sansa as Queen in the North as she was wed first to a Lannister then to a Bolton, two families the North hates so much), the one thing he always wanted before he is doomed in his mind.

And two people I predict to burn on those crosses are Osha and Tormund (sad, I know). And let me explain why. Both are wildlings, which sends Ramsay's demoralizing message to wildlings.

And secondly, Osha is Rickon's foster mother. Her public death in such fashion will enrage Rickon, the main figure who the anti-Bolton coalition is rallying around (the new King in the North) which Ramsay counts on. This death will have a huge psychological impact on Rickon to get involved in the fight he never should have participated in (he should have big brother handle the fight in his name and stay away), which will unfortunately get him killed in the end by wanting revenge on Ramsay.

And Tormund's death will have direct impact on Jon, the leader of the opposition. Also Tormund is presumably the wildling leader, so his death will strike a huge demoralizing blow to the wildlings. But I think it will backfire on Ramsay because wildlings follow strength, not bloodline. And who is more capable and respect-worthy after Tormund that Jon, who did not execute them all as Lord Commander of Night's Watch when he had a chance or when he risked his life by saving them at Hardhome? The wildlings will choose Jon as their new leader and follow him till death.

And I think there is a very small foreshadowing of Tormund burning in a fire the way he was witnessing Mance Rayder's burning. I think he was seeing his fate a bit, but I might be reaching. Storywise it makes sense.

So yeah, my money is on Tormund and Osha. I think Osha will get captured while sacrificying herself to make sure Rickon escapes (presumably with Davos) when Boltons come looking for them, while Tormund maybe gets overpowered in a mini skirmish with Umber forces before episode 9, who hand him to Boltons as a token of "loyalty" (but Umbers will change sides during the final battle and fight on Stark side anyways). I don't know, kinda makes sense given hatred between Umbers and wildlings who have been fighting for centuries.

[Scorpion92]

That's not how it works. Power resides where people believe it resides. All LF has got is a scrap of paper/empty title. He only has power if his bannermen are willing to fight for him - and they have shown they would prefer Sansa to him. LF has no way of compelling their obedience, as his ADWD Vale machinations show only too clearly. 

If he had a piece of paper/empty title then Vale lords would never have allowed him to be Sweetrobin's protector in the first place.

In fact, they would never follow Littlefinger into the North, one place you don't want to be during the winter time, especially in a matter that hardly concerns Valemen at all. I don't think that Vale lords give too much thought about Sansa to go and risk their lives for her.

Unless she was promised to marry Sweetrobin in the future, they would never go to the North and get involved in the whole northern saga. The only way it makes sense if their Lord Protector made them, which means he DOES have power over them, otherwise they would have given Littlefinger a middle finger (see what I did there lol?).

And given reports that Vale troops ARE in the North, it seems LF does have power over Vale troops.

[Lord Friendzone]

I missed that confirmation. Thanks for the info. I guess the next best guess is that it is Brienne and Pod. That would make me sad because I always thought those two had much longer arcs. But I very much doubt that it would be Sansa or Jon, and it has to be someone that Sansa and/or Jon cares about.

 

As for Robb's will, it doesn't matter IMO if it was previously mentioned in show world. It could be shown in a vision if necessary, or a will could be produced by a surviving bannerman leaving the question of its legitimacy open. This would work since some Northerners are bound to question its lefitimacy anyway. And even if there is no will ever mentioned, there is a reasonable case to be made for some Northerners to back Jon over Sansa: he likely has an army of wildlings only he has any control over, and he has proven that he is loyal and has the right priorities.

Brienne will be in Riverlands with Pod...Sue said it. There will be apparently meeting between Brienne and Jaime at some point. Jaime will be by the end of the season 6 in a very diferent place. Far away from Riverlands. Some people speculated that Sansa will command to bring him to the North. I don't think so. Previously he will deal with KG situation before going to Riverlands. So his Dorne arc was basically a filler just like much of a last season to certain degree. Jon arch was so behined everyone. It can't be her.Tormund, Davos, Roose with Walda. Some of them, but Rickon was my best bet wih Umbers on Boltons side. It would make some sense, but as things stand tough to say. Sitll hoping that Umbers are playing Boltons and so Manderly kind of turn. Although, apparently we will get some version of Manderly's The North Remembers speech.

I don't think they planned on to do GNC and Robb's will. Simply Rickon will show up and everybody will rally in the end for him. D&D simplified version of things. Even without Robb's will some people might prefer Jon over Sansa as a leader. She married although unwillingly to Lannisters and Boltons. Not exactly loved families in the North and with Jon's influence with armies. I can see him being after the battle very prominent figure among Northerners. Some heroics in the battle will do. Crown doesn't give you power...army does.

Rickon's death without legitimizing Jon would be a very interesting scenario, but if they make WW attack the Wall and season 7 they will fully launch an attack on the North. I guess they will simplify things and everybody will rally to Rickon's side, Jon will be responsible for military side of things and Sansa regent for Rickon if needed be. Although, Rickon is not tied up to that cross...still could die at some point. Sue said that we will say goodbye to some characters in that Battle of Bastards, North or Six Armies whatever you wanna call it.

[Maid So Fair]

If he had a piece of paper/empty title then Vale lords would never have allowed him to be Sweetrobin's protector in the first place.

In fact, they would never follow Littlefinger into the North, one place you don't want to be during the winter time, especially in a matter that hardly concerns Valemen at all. I don't think that Vale lords give too much thought about Sansa to go and risk their lives for her.

Unless she was promised to marry Sweetrobin in the future, they would never go to the North and get involved in the whole northern saga. The only way it makes sense if their Lord Protector made them, which means he DOES have power over them, otherwise they would have given Littlefinger a middle finger (see what I did there lol?).

And given reports that Vale troops ARE in the North, it seems LF does have power over Vale troops.

They only allow it as first he's Lysa's husband, then he has SweetRobin in his control and the Vale Lords are not willing to risk their liege's life, and then because he's managed to divide and conquer for the time being. His position is far from secure. Welll, in the books anyway. In the show they have mysteriously chosen to follow him, but only as a result of Sansa vouching for him after Lysa's death.

As for Sansa, there is the fact that her father was raised in the Vale, presumably making at least a few friends, and the Vale fighting alongside the Starks and the Baratheons in Robert's Rebellion. Many in the Vale were not happy with Lysa's decision not to help Robb in TWOT5K. They still seem to believe that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn. And SweetRobin actually likes Sansa, something that can't be said about LF.

They will get involved in the show, not because they have suddenly decided to support LF but because the plot demands it. As S5 proved, if it all happens to make sense, that will only be a bonus.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Last season in behind the scenes, Sansa says after her and LF part ways in the crypt that she sees the logic in LF plan for her to marry Ramsay etc. The show runners are also adamant that LF cares about Sansa and he did not know what he got her into, in fact they says SHE got herself into it, which is BS but it shows you the mindset of the showrunners. So, brace yourselves for the possibility that when Sansa sees LF again she will be glad and happy about it. Why? Because the show runners seem to want it that way. We can speculate all we want but I have much fear about Season 6 and as much as I want to get my hopes up, I fear Ramsay will still be alive by the end of the year but if he is dead, Sansa will be in LF's control/grasp and that is bad enough for me.

[Hippocras]

Last season in behind the scenes, Sansa says after her and LF part ways in the crypt that she sees the logic in LF plan for her to marry Ramsay etc. The show runners are also adamant that LF cares about Sansa and he did not know what he got her into, in fact they says SHE got herself into it, which is BS but it shows you the mindset of the showrunners. So, brace yourselves for the possibility that when Sansa sees LF again she will be glad and happy about it. Why? Because the show runners seem to want it that way. We can speculate all we want but I have much fear about Season 6 and as much as I want to get my hopes up, I fear Ramsay will still be alive by the end of the year but if he is dead, Sansa will be in LF's control/grasp and that is bad enough for me.

The show runners are also adamant that Jon Snow is dead and not coming back....

Sometimes they are telling the truth, sometimes they are avoiding spoiling their own show.

LF may somewhat care for Sansa, sure, but not enough thst it would ever change his ambitions or approach. He is perfectly willing to murder everyone she cares about or who makes her less dependent on him. That's pretty much the definition of an abusive relationship.

[A Ghost of Someone]

The show runners are also adamant that Jon Snow is dead and not coming back....

Sometimes they are telling the truth, sometimes they are avoiding spoiling their own show.

LF may somewhat care for Sansa, sure, but not enough thst it would ever change his ambitions or approach. He is perfectly willing to murder everyone she cares about or who makes her less dependent on him. That's pretty much the definition of an abusive relationship.

Very, very well stated. Also, on the show atleast, I am beginning to think that he did not believe the wedding and bedding would ever take place because he did not seem to account for the debilitatiing snow storm that stopped Stannis's march.

[Scorpion92]

They only allow it as first he's Lysa's husband, then he has SweetRobin in his control and the Vale Lords are not willing to risk their liege's life, and then because he's managed to divide and conquer for the time being. His position is far from secure. Welll, in the books anyway. In the show they have mysteriously chosen to follow him, but only as a result of Sansa vouching for him after Lysa's death.

As for Sansa, there is the fact that her father was raised in the Vale, presumably making at least a few friends, and the Vale fighting alongside the Starks and the Baratheons in Robert's Rebellion. Many in the Vale were not happy with Lysa's decision not to help Robb in TWOT5K. They still seem to believe that the Lannisters murdered Jon Arryn. And SweetRobin actually likes Sansa, something that can't be said about LF.

They will get involved in the show, not because they have suddenly decided to support LF but because the plot demands it. As S5 proved, if it all happens to make sense, that will only be a bonus.

Lord Royce already was given Sweetrobin as his ward at the beginning of last season, so if Vale lords wanted to take little Lord Arryn from Littlefinger's grasp they would have done it by now. And Sweetrobin in the show seems to like LF a lot, watch their scenes together.

Book Vale and Show Vale are two different storylines. I absolutely agree with your statements that Vale lords would not follow Littlefinger blindly in the BOOKS. But in the show we have Baelish CONFIDENTLY stating to Cersei that he could pacify North for her with Vale troops, which means he has a huge power over them. Sucks, I know, but it is a show after all.

[BalerionTheCat]

Rickon exists and has no visible purpose for now. I believe he is to become the final heir of WF, and possibly KitN. Sansa could be a regent, but not a queen. Besides, she is still married to a Lannister (and a Bolton). The northern lords will not follow her while Rickon is alive. And Rickon will not die without having any important purpose in the story.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Rickon exists and has no visible purpose for now. I believe he is to become the final heir of WF, and possibly KitN. Sansa could be a regent, but not a queen. Besides, she is still married to a Lannister (and a Bolton). The northern lords will not follow her while Rickon is alive. And Rickon will not die without having any important purpose in the story.

If the Northern Lords were realistic, they, if they get the chance, should and would "debrief" Sansa as she is the only survivor from the North to go to Kings Landing with Ned her father etc. Also, she has a lot to answer for regarding her Bolton Marriage. All of this, If she gets the chance to talk, Littlefinger should be screwed as far as the North goes but if the battle goes down like Littlefinger likes, he will have the last army standing as most likely he will let the Starks/Northerns and Boltons/Northhers destroy each other. Most likely, he will have the power in the end and they will not be able to do anything about it, unless of course Sansa is able to get to Lord Royce and tell him the truth. Get Ready for King Baelish or Warden of the North Petyre "Littlefinger" Baelsih, with or without a Lady Sansa or Queen Sansa as his bride. Another thing, if Rickon lives, You better believe, Littlefinger will want to get his hands on him and play the "Uncle therefore I am Regent" crap.

[Hippocras]

Rickon exists and has no visible purpose for now. I believe he is to become the final heir of WF, and possibly KitN. Sansa could be a regent, but not a queen. Besides, she is still married to a Lannister (and a Bolton). The northern lords will not follow her while Rickon is alive. And Rickon will not die without having any important purpose in the story.

Sansa could very likely become a queen actually. It is a potential outcome that has been set up since the beginning. She probably would never be QitN though, at least not in her own right.

As for Rickon, I can see your thinking, but tend to disagree. Just because his part in the story is not completely clear yet does not nean he lives until the end. At the very least, until now, he serves to makes the question of inheritance in the North wide open. Without him at this point in the story there would be a tree boy, noone, a girl who twice married the enemy, and a bastard with no legitimate claim....and everyone would too easily expect the bastard to be the obvious choice.

[BalerionTheCat]

Sansa could very likely become a queen actually. It is a potential outcome that has been set up since the beginning. She probably would never be QitN though, at least not in her own right.

As for Rickon, I can see your thinking, but tend to disagree. Just because his part in the story is not completely clear yet does not nean he lives until the end. At the very least, until now, he serves to makes the question of inheritance in the North wide open. Without him at this point in the story there would be a tree boy, noone, a girl who twice married the enemy, and a bastard with no legitimate claim....and everyone would too easily expect the bastard to be the obvious choice.

I agree that Rickon's purpose could be to just provide another shocking death. As much as Sansa. Just me, but I feel the North will belong to Rickon. Sansa is more "from the South", if only because she lost her wolf. She will not rule the North while a Stark will have a wolf.

I agree, she has the qualities to be a great southron lady or queen. But where?

[Lord Friendzone]

Sansa could very likely become a queen actually. It is a potential outcome that has been set up since the beginning. She probably would never be QitN though, at least not in her own right.

As for Rickon, I can see your thinking, but tend to disagree. Just because his part in the story is not completely clear yet does not nean he lives until the end. At the very least, until now, he serves to makes the question of inheritance in the North wide open. Without him at this point in the story there would be a tree boy, noone, a girl who twice married the enemy, and a bastard with no legitimate claim....and everyone would too easily expect the bastard to be the obvious choice.

You mean as a queen on the Iron Throne? If so then who would be there with her. Just curious,because I just can't see her on the Iron Throne. I can see her surviving and maybe starting to become LF 2.0 basically strong political player.

Without Rickon it's so much more open, but it depends on what they want to do. Easy way with Rickon being KitN, Sansa regent and Jon general or more complicated scenario. Maybe they will let WW to invade the North and scratch the whole inheritance problem in the North. Although, there will be at least one Stark death in the series.

[Hippocras]

You mean as a queen on the Iron Throne? If so then who would be there with her. Just curious,because I just can't see her on the Iron Throne. I can see her surviving and maybe starting to become LF 2.0 basically strong political player.

Without Rickon it's so much more open, but it depends on what they want to do. Easy way with Rickon being KitN, Sansa regent and Jon general or more complicated scenario. Maybe they will let WW to invade the North and scratch the whole inheritance problem in the North. Although, there will be at least one Stark death in the series.

I can't say for certain who with, but that doesn't change the clues to this potential outcome that exist in the text. Of course it is not set in stone, but it is one of those things that, if it does happen, you will reread the books and see immediately all the clues that point in that direction.

The red wedding was both a huge shock, and something that was set up well in advance. This outcome possibility is like that.

[Woman of War]

I can't say for certain who with, but that doesn't change the clues to this potential outcome that exist in the text. Of course it is not set in stone, but it is one of those things that, if it does happen, you will reread the books and see immediately all the clues that point in that direction.

The red wedding was both a huge shock, and something that was set up well in advance. This outcome possibility is like that.

How would Sansa ever be queen on her own right? She has no claim at all.

She could though be queen at the side of someone, Aegon at least for a short time, Jon, Gendry - remember, the  blacksmith Jaime suggested for her - or Tommen as Kings. Or Tyrion as king if that unlkely yet possible case happens. Or if the game gets really crazy even Baelish could sit the IT for a short time, with Sansa at his side.

But actually she has no claim of her own. Except as queen regent if she has a child from one of all those possible kings, this king dies and she manages to claim the power of regent.

 

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I can't say for certain who with, but that doesn't change the clues to this potential outcome that exist in the text. Of course it is not set in stone, but it is one of those things that, if it does happen, you will reread the books and see immediately all the clues that point in that direction.

I tend to agree. I mean, one could see Sansa's connection to Winterfell rather clearly, and depending on one's opinion about it, that might point out to her being the Regent/Ruler of Winterfell. It's there right from the start - Sansa looks and looks when Joffrey takes her to the battlements, and she reminds herself that far North, there lays Winterfell. Sansa also builds Winterfell in the Eyrie, and most of her journey is connected to her sense of identity that is drawn from her ancestral home. 

One could see Sansa as a Queen taking into account her line about what would she do If she were ever a Queen. I personally think Sansa's destiny is connected to Winterfell and to the North, be it as Queen or Regent or Wardeness or nothing at all. But as you said so, people see what they want to see. I'm sure some have read her chapters and have drawn up conclusions that she'll be beheaded by Ilyn Payne or face Cersei, none of which I personally think will come to pass. Others have said she'll be Jon's wife and therefore, the younger, more beautiful Queen that will cast Cersei down. 

[Mandzipop]

If Rickon dies, she will be the heir to Winterfell. The crown will never accept her as Warden of the North, therefore her only option is to become Queen in the North.

There would only be 2 ways that she can become Queen of the 7 Kingdoms. Marriage which makes her Queen consort or conquest. I can't see the latter. That leaves a political marriage, most likely to Jon, unless her marriage to Tyrion starts to work and he takes over as King (if he is Aery's bastard son). But I'm not sure if the show would go for having 2 royal revelations. A book can get away with it, a tv show would be repetitive.

Sansa did start taking some agency last season by trying to escape. She didn't accept her lot to what was going on. On the surface she was dutiful whilst at the same time she was trying to escape. This is different from when she was at Kings Landing. There she accepted her abuse, that Sansa had gone. Although the change was subtle it was there.

I'm expecting Brienne and Pod to be her method of not getting caught by Ramsey. She will then be amongst people who care about her welfare and will put her first. LF has taught her a little bit of the art of cunning, maybe she needs some lessons in fighting. I think she may still appear dainty and fluffy on the outside but be steel on the inside. An Elizabeth I type character, but not exactly the same.