SeanF Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 You read Robin Hobb yet?I've only read The Farseer Trilogy so far. I'd say all the good guys in that story are pretty clearly morally good. Fitz, Nighteyes, Verity, Kettricken, Chade etc. all have a strong moral compass, only kill in self-defence or defence of others, and don't take wanton revenge, so I wouldn't call it grimdark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I said Suzanne Collins, not Robin Hobb.Except perhaps for:- Training a 10 year old to kill people.- Forging.- Graphic depictions of torture and PTSD.- Child cannibalism.- Borderline beastiality.- The ending...And this is not to mention everything that Fitz is personally put through over the course of the series.Sure. Post edit. And beastiality? Where the hell do you get that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 And beastiality? Where the hell do you get that from?Nighteyes and Molly. Bow chicka wow wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 You quoted me saying Suzanne Collins. Scroll up.Everyone always forgets it happened.Night has sex with Molly while controlling Fitz's body. Fitz himself is unconscious at the time.Not to mention Nighteyes commenting "that felt good, brother" the first time Fitz has sex with Molly.The ending of the series is bittersweet, IMHO, rather than bleak or downbeat, which is more typical of grimdark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Yeah the bestiality came up in another topic, and just about everyone had forgotten it happened, although I don't think its technically beastality. But yeah Hobb goes to some dark places. I also think the ending to the first trilogy is bleak as all fuck, but I've had this argument many times before and I'm not going to change anyone's minds.Was Collins around before Hurley? Heck either way, Katherine Kurtz was writing gritty, dark, everyone gets burned at the stake medieval fantasy IN THE 70S. So there is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hurley was writing short fiction before Collins was ever published! Take that! I can use Wikipedia!I actually have nothing against Collins, now, DIvergent is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Yea, im not buying off on the beastiality argument. Unless there is a fucking donkey show going down, that shit fits within the magical perimeters set up in that world. Molly didn't fuck a wolf. She fucked her lover that was, within the rules of the fantasy land, being controlled by a bonded animal. Keep thinking what you want, but you're stretching it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Yeah I went back and read that scene when it was brought up, I think bestiality is the wrong word, but the scene in particular is REALLY messed up.Also if you Havoline read all of Robin Hobb you shouldn't be allowed to post here til you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 You read Robin Hobb yet?Robin Hobb is definitely on my list of "catch up on the last 15 16 years of fantasy which I have missed the best of." She's next after reading more than the first novel of The Black Company series, Prince of Fools, and the rest of Joe Abercrombie's work. I appreciate all the wonderful recommendations people gave me when I first asked the question, "Can anyone recommend me some female grimdark authors?"To which I say, thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puntificator Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Why? Because if it didn't, the Hunger Games might be grimdark? You can't be choosing genre definitions to exclude certain books that would otherwise come under that definition, surely?Like, I don't think Hunger Games is grimdark, because for me that term came into its current use to describe the books that seem to be reacting in one way or another to the tide of fluffy, morally simplistic epic fantasies of the '80s and 90s and therefore in my head is essentially a subset of medieval fantasy, but I'm not sure I'd automatically disqualify a book where the protagonist seeks to do good but fails miserably or is broken by the effort. That description, after all, applies to a fair portion of the protagonists of Abercrombie and Martin. Why, you ask, haven't I read The Hunger Games? Well, I've said several times I don't read YA. It's as simple as that. I don't disqualify fantasy books that aren't grimdark. I read plenty of non-grimdark fantasy, probably more than I read grimdark. But I do disqualify any book that is marketed as YA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Why, you ask, haven't I read The Hunger Games? Well, I've said several times I don't read YA. It's as simple as that. I don't disqualify fantasy books that aren't grimdark. I read plenty of non-grimdark fantasy, probably more than I read grimdark. But I do disqualify any book that is marketed as YA.At least you're consistent in your purchasing methods. Narrow purchasing based on marketing placement. Seems a little shortsighted, but it seems to work keeping your safely ordered world in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puntificator Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 My recommendation to this argument, guys?"Forget it, Puntificator, it's Westeros.org." I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not arguing with peterbound. And I know what site it is. The purpose of the "Literature" forums is, "Discussion of fantasy, science fiction, and just about any other literature (Yes, this includes comic books!)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I only read YA Speculative grimdark gunpowder fantasy written in the 2nd person future tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puntificator Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I only read YA Speculative grimdark gunpowder fantasy written in the 2nd person future tense.Well then I can make a few recommendations if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puntificator Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I was saying to Punitifcator that some people are going to have strong opinions on their views and not going to be changed whatever the argument. I know that. A word for such people is mumpsimus. It's not an attribute I'd brag about.Westeros.org attracts those kind of people and that's why it's worth it. I disagree. Most of the people I've "met" here do have strong opinions, but they are intelligent and open-minded people who appear to be willing to change a view if exposed to a rational argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Sorry, was making a reference to Chinatown which seems to have completely bombed.No insult intended to any posters here.I shall now go commit Hegh'bat or Klingon suicide.*Gets his Bat'Leth* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puntificator Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 At least you're consistent in your purchasing methods. Narrow purchasing based on marketing placement. Seems a little shortsighted, but it seems to work keeping your safely ordered world in place.This is my list of fantasy books with a confirmed US release for 2016, that I have already bought or pre-ordered (or will pre-order as soon as pre-ordering for the Kindle is available). More will be added as confirmed releases are announced. It doesn't appear to me to be either a narrow set of purchases or representative of a safely ordered world (though most have been safely ordered)—there are several risky, untested debut authors on the list. Path of Gods [Already out] Snorri KristjanssonCity of Light [Already out] Keri Arthur Drake [Already out] Peter McLeanHarmony Black [Already out] Craig SchaeferMidnight Taxi Tango [Already out] Daniel José OlderThe Glass Galago [Already out] A. M. DellamonicaThe Drowning Eyes [Jan 12] Emily FosterGoldenfire [Jan 14] A.F.E. SmithThe Fire Mage’s Daughter [Jan 15] Pauline M. RossSmall Wars [Jan 19] Matt WallaceThe Pagan Night [Jan 19] Tim AkersMedusa’s Web [Jan 19] Tim PowersAll the Birds in the Sky [Jan 26] Charlie Jane AndersStaked [Jan 26] Kevin HearneBroken Hero [Jan 26] Jonathan WoodRoadside Magic [Jan 26] Lilith SaintcrowThe Brimstone Deception [Jan 26] Lisa ShearinLustlocked [Jan 26] Matt WallaceCity of Blades [Jan 26] Robert Jackson BennettDaughter of Blood [Jan 26] Helen LoweThe Alchemy of Chaos [Feb 2] Marshall Ryan MarescaDreaming Death [Feb 2] J. Kathleen CheneyA Criminal Magic [Feb 2] Lee KellyKingfisher [Feb 2] Patricia A. McKillip Chains of the Heretic [Feb 2] Jeff SalyardsWinterwood [Feb 2] Jacey BedfordSon of the Morning [Feb 4: US release] Mark AlderDragon Hunters [Feb 9] Marc TurnerA Song for No Man’s Land [Feb 9] Andy RemicThe Guns of Ivrea [Feb 9] Clifford BealNorthwoods [Feb 16] Bill SchweigartLovecraft Country [Feb 16] Max RuffThe Immortals [Feb 16] Jordanna Max BrodskyThe Ballad of Black Tom [Feb 16] Victor LaValleA Gathering of Shadows [Feb 23] V. E. SchwabA Tale of the Free: Corsair [Mar 1] Brian RuckleyBorderline [Mar 1] Mishell BakerBlack City Saint [Mar 1] Richard A. KnaakThe Brotherhood of the Wheel [Mar 1] R. S. BelcherThe Last Days of Magic [Mar 1] Mark TompkinsThe Devil You Know [Mar 1] K.J. ParkerMonstrous Little Voices [Mar 8] David Thomas Moore [editor] Marked In Flesh [Mar 8] Anne BishopRunning Down a Dream [Mar 15] Minerva ZimmermanSnakewood [Mar 15] Adrian SelbyThe Last Mortal Bond [Mar 15] Brian StaveleyThe Mortal Tally [Mar 29] Sam SykesJavelin Rain [Mar 29] Myke Cole The Second Death [Mar 29] T. Frohock Burned [April 5] Benedict JackaThe Demonists [April 5] Thomas E. SniegoskiJericho [April 5] Alex GordonNo Good Deed [April 12] Auston HabershawThe Apocalypse Ark [Apr 12] Peter RomanA Shadow All of Light [April 12] Fred ChappellBloodmage [April 12] Stephen AryanMasks and Shadows [April 12] Stephanie BurgisNine of Stars [April 12] Laura BickleGrim Tidings [April 19] Caitlin KittredgeThe Fall of the Dagger [April 19] Glenda LarkeDaughter of Albion [April 19] Ilka TampkeThe Stars Askew [April 19] Rjurik DavidsonFall of Light [April 19] Steven EriksonIn Shining Armor [April 26] Elliott JamesSharp Ends [April 26] Joe AbercrombieLos Nefilim [April 26] T. FrohockRed Knight Falling [April 26] Craig SchaeferShadow’s Blade [May 3] David B. CoeTwilight of the Dragons [May 3] Andy RemicThe Silent Army [May 3] James A. MooreIdle Hands [May 5] Tom FletcherThe Strategist [May 5] Gerrard CowanThe Mirror Thief [May 10] Martin SeayPieces of Hate [May 15] Tim LebbonShadow of the Void [May 24] Nathan GarrisonA Blade of Black Steel [May 24] Alex MarshallLeviathan’s Blood [May 31] Ben PeekDancer’s Lament [May 31] Ian C. EsslemontWho Killed Sherlock Holmes? [May, 2016] Paul CornellThe Wheel of Osheim [Jun 7] Mark LawrenceThe Root: A Novel of The Wrath & Athenaeum [Jun 7] Na'amen TilahunFireborn [Jun 7] David DalglishSaint's Blood [Jun 7] Sebastien de CastellSilent Hall [Jun 7] N.S. DolkartA Tale of the Free: Exile [Jun 7] Brian RuckleyStiletto [Jun 14] Daniel O’MalleySpells of Blood and Kin [Jun 14] Claire HumphreyThe Invisible Library [June 14] Genevieve CogmanIn the Shadow of the Gods [June 21] Rachel DunneDuskfall [Jun 21] Christopher B. HusbergThe Perdition Score [June 28] Richard KadreyHope & Red [Jun 28] Jon SkovronWasteland King [June 28] Lilith SaintcrowThe Great Ordeal [July 5] R. Scott BakkerThe Forgetting Moon [July 5] Brian Lee DurfeeThe Devil's Evidence [July 5] Simon Kurt UnsworthThe Waking Fire [July 5] Anthony RyanSacrifices [July 5] Jamie Schultz Flameout [July 5] Keri Arthur The Returned [July 12] Bishop O’ConnellRitual Crime Unit: Spirit Animals [July 12] E. E. RichardsonNecessity [July 12] Jo WaltonWrath [July 12] John GwynneOwl and the Electric Samurai [July 18] Kristi CharishUrban Allies [July 26] Joseph Nassise [editor] Four Roads Cross [July 26] Max Gladstone Dragon Lords: Fool's Gold [July 26] Jon HollinsRed Right Hand [July 26] Levi BlackVigil [July, 2016] Angela SlatterThe Stringer [Aug 1] Jeff SomersThe Two Torcs [Aug 2] Debbie Viguié and James R. TuckThe Guns of Empire [Aug 9] Django WexlerNevernight [Aug 9] Jay KristoffThe Sight [Aug 16] Chloe NeillThe Obelisk Gate [Aug 16] N.K. JemisinBreath of Earth [Aug 23] Beth CatoThe Empty Ones [Aug 30] Robert BrockwayOf Sand and Malice Made [Sep 6] Bradley BeaulieuChapel of Ease [Sep 6] Alex BledsoeFix (’Mancer) [Sep 6] Ferret SteinmetzThe Masked City [Sep 6] Genevieve CogmanRed Tide [Sep 20] Marc TurnerThe Queen of Blood [Sep, 2016] Sarah Beth DurstGlass Town [Oct 11] Steven SavileThe Prince of Glass [Oct 18] Karen MillerThe Wield [Oct, 2016] Dan AbnettFirewalk [Oct, 2016] Chris RobersonThe Burning Isle [Oct, 2016] Will PanzoAn Import of Intrigue [Nov, 2016] Marshall Ryan MarescaBelle Chasse [Nov, 2016] Suzanne JohnsonDead Man’s Steel [Dec 6] Luke ScullStrife’s Bane [Dec 13] Evie ManieriThe Burning Page [Dec, 2016] Genevieve CogmanReturn of Souls [Spring, 2016] Andy RemicThe Iron Beast [Summer, 2016] Andy RemicA Taste of Honey [Fall, 2016] Kai Ashante Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Anne Bishop? Oh dear GOD Kristof too? I question your taste, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I disagree. Most of the people I've "met" here do have strong opinions, but they are intelligent and open-minded people who appear to be willing to change a view if exposed to a rational argument. I'm all of those. You just have yet to provide a rational argument. 'I like them and they should exist to make my shopping life easier' isn't an argument that would sway even the weakest of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 This has to be some elaborate ruse to drive me insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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