US-Politics The Resistible Rise of Donald J. Trump

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Donald Trump is a better human being than Hillary Clinton is.

Donald Trump convinced his demented father to cut his older brother (and his brother's kids) out of his will, then cut off payment of his sick nephew's medical bills on the back of a lawsuit. 

 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/us/politics/for-donald-trump-lessons-from-a-brothers-suffering.html?_r=0

 

He seems like a real peach.

[Wise Fool]

I don't think I'm really comfortable indulging their violent fantasies, especially when it's exactly what they want.  Why martyr a bunch of violent idiots?

Because the world would be better off without them? Since they are violent idiots.

[Kalbear]

Trump still leads, unpredicted by almost everyone.  Why?

Because the actual primaries haven't started yet.

[Stinkhole]

Trump is not a serious candidate. His supporters consist largely of lonely men and shut ins. To vote they would need to leave their house. Not happening.

Has anyone met a female Trump supporter? Has anyone met a Trump supporter in a romantic relationship and/or stable career?

Of course not. 

What we are witnessing is the final days of the Republican party.

 

[Stinkhole]

Because the world would be better off without them? Since they are violent idiots.

You could say that about a lot of (maybe most) folks.

As long as people leave them alone it will remain a peaceful protest. The main danger in these things is the protesters shooting each other.

Nothing but a bunch of Cub Scouts wanting a little attention.  Turn off the lights and water, and they'll go home

[Biglose]

Trump is not a serious candidate. His supporters consist largely of lonely men and shut ins. To vote they would need to leave their house. Not happening.

Has anyone met a female Trump supporter? Has anyone met a Trump supporter in a romantic relationship and/or stable career?

Of course not. 

What we are witnessing is the final days of the Republican party.

 

You mean outside those on those rallies and those giving interviews?  Yeah you hate trump, you are such a great human beeing...
And the end of the rebublican party was promised before several times and it never came true. If you want to see parties dying off, take a look at europe. The two party system in the US makes such an event rather unlikely.
 

Because the actual primaries haven't started yet.

This rings true to me. Reminds me of how the french election and LePen. Trump is the middle finger to the establishment. No more no less. And heaven knows they deserve it. But I can't imagine that most people who "support" him now will actually go ahead and make him the actual contestor for president. He is entertainment and sticking it to the man. This goes a long way, but not all the way.

[Shryke]

This rings true to me. Reminds me of how the french election and LePen. Trump is the middle finger to the establishment. No more no less. And heaven knows they deserve it. But I can't imagine that most people who "support" him now will actually go ahead and make him the actual contestor for president. He is entertainment and sticking it to the man. This goes a long way, but not all the way.

Why not?

He has very many real supporters. His rhetoric taps into a very real segment of the US voting populace. Polling also indicates that there are ALOT of republican primary voters who want nothing more then to give a big middle finger to the party establishment. If you wanna know why Trump is leading, that plus some smart campaigning for free publicity is your answer.

The real question is if Trump has the ground game to build momentum during the primaries or if his campaign can survive a loss in, say, Iowa.

[Shryke]

I don't get the big deal. cut off all supplies of food and water, turn off electricity water etc and wait. No armed response needed, just patience.

Indeed. Starve these assholes out and then throw the book at them. It's winter ffs, they won't last long.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I hope there is an armed response. Give these assholes the martyrs they want. Then it will incourage more of them to become suicide bombers. And eventually we can kill them all off. Problem solved.

No.  It feeds conspiracy theorists and many will die in the crossfire as the shit flies.  Terrible plan.

[Trebla]

I'm trying to figure out which name I like more for these Oregon guys: 

#VanillaISIS ?

#yeehawdists ?

#Talibundy ?

#YokelHaram ?

#YallQaeda ?

Might be the second one but they are all good.

[lokisnow]

I'm trying to figure out which name I like more for these Oregon guys: 

#VanillaISIS ?

#yeehawdists ?

#Talibundy ?

#YokelHaram ?

#YallQaeda ?

Might be the second one but they are all good.

Obviously #vanillaisisisisbaby

[Kalbear]

He has very many real supporters. His rhetoric taps into a very real segment of the US voting populace. Polling also indicates that there are ALOT of republican primary voters who want nothing more then to give a big middle finger to the party establishment. If you wanna know why You-Know-Who is leading, that plus some smart campaigning for free publicity is your answer.

Because those who answer internet polls are not usually the ones who actually cast votes for those people. Polls are not remotely accurate. And Trump has virtually no actual presence in Iowa or New Hampshire, and that tends to be a big deal early on. He doesn't need to win, but he does need to place - and he's shown no ability to do that so far.

Now, if he can actually get some decent places on the primaries? That'd be a game changer. But his organization is completely lacking in any kind of ground game or even a virtual game like Obama did. 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Donald Trump convinced his demented father to cut his older brother (and his brother's kids) out of his will, then cut off payment of his sick nephew's medical bills on the back of a lawsuit. 

 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/us/politics/for-donald-trump-lessons-from-a-brothers-suffering.html?_r=0

 

He seems like a real peach.

Do you assume the truth of every allegations in every 15 year old lawsuit that the Times manages to write three sentences about, or only when it involves negative things about politicians that you dislike? There is absolutely no way for anyone here to make any kind of definitive statement about the circumstances that led Donald Trump's father to write his eldest son out of his will. Maybe he felt he had given his alcoholic loser of a son enough money during his life that he didn't need to do it in death? Who here can possibly say? 

As for the medical payments for his nephew's kid - if I'm voluntarily paying your sick kid's medical bills and you have the gall to fucking sue me for my inheritance - you better believe I won't be voluntarily giving you any money as long as that lawsuit is pending. From a thousand feet up and fifteen years distance, it may seem harsh, but that is a perfectly normal reaction. 

[Gneisenau]

Why are such armed groups in the USA more reactionary than revolutionary ?

[Bonesy]

Because they cannot accomplish shit?

[Bonesy]

...

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Do you assume the truth of every allegations in every 15 year old lawsuit that the Times manages to write three sentences about, or only when it involves negative things about politicians that you dislike? There is absolutely no way for anyone here to make any kind of definitive statement about the circumstances that led Donald Trump's father to write his eldest son out of his will. Maybe he felt he had given his alcoholic loser of a son enough money during his life that he didn't need to do it in death? Who here can possibly say? 

As for the medical payments for his nephew's kid - if I'm voluntarily paying your sick kid's medical bills and you have the gall to fucking sue me for my inheritance - you better believe I won't be voluntarily giving you any money as long as that lawsuit is pending. From a thousand feet up and fifteen years distance, it may seem harsh, but that is a perfectly normal reaction. 

If I'm reading the timeline correctly, Freddy Jr was already dead at the time Fred Senior died. It was Freddy Jr's children that Donald had written out of the will. Fred Sr had reportedly been suffering from dementia, and both Donald and his sister had limited power of attorney which they used to alter the will.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/264579-report-trump-helped-draft-will-that-excluded-his-brothers

 So they weren't preventing his "alcoholic loser" of an older brother from ruining the family fortune, they were cutting his children completely out of the will. When Freddy Jr's children brought suit, Donald cut off paying the medical bills of his infant nephew, who had been suffering from brain seizures and cerebral palsy. 

 You're right that I don't know all the gruesome details, but I think that's an extremely brutal thing to do to one's own family. Consider as well that at this point Donald was already running (and had controlling interest in) the family business, which was far and away the greatest asset the family possessed. The will that Donald and his sister cut their brothers kids out of involved about $20 million dollars of personal wealth that Fred Sr had maintained personally. Donald's excuse for cutting off the paying of medical expenses is "I was angry because they sued".

 Oh yeah, they weren't suing Trump for his inheritance, they were suing him for their inheritance. They were included in an earlier version of the will, which Donald eventually replaced. There's a distinction to be made there.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

If I'm reading the timeline correctly, Freddy Jr was already dead at the time Fred Senior died. It was Freddy Jr's children that Donald had written out of the will. Fred Sr had reportedly been suffering from dementia, and both Donald and his sister had limited power of attorney which they used to alter the will.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/264579-report-trump-helped-draft-will-that-excluded-his-brothers

 So they weren't preventing his "alcoholic loser" of an older brother from ruining the family fortune, they were cutting his children completely out of the will. When Freddy Jr's children brought suit, Donald cut off paying the medical bills of his infant nephew, who had been suffering from brain seizures and cerebral palsy. 

 You're right that I don't know all the gruesome details, but I think that's an extremely brutal thing to do to one's own family. Consider as well that at this point Donald was already running (and had controlling interest in) the family business, which was far and away the greatest asset the family possessed. The will that Donald and his sister cut their brothers kids out of involved about $20 million dollars of personal wealth that Fred Sr had maintained personally. Donald's excuse for cutting off the paying of medical expenses is "I was angry because they sued".

 Oh yeah, they weren't suing Trump for his inheritance, they were suing him for their inheritance. They were included in an earlier version of the will, which Donald eventually replaced. There's a distinction to be made there.

That link doesn't provide any new information - all it does is link to the New York Times article and summarize, in less detail, what was reported by the Times. 

Parents are not obligated to leave their children, or their children's children, anything. An inheritance is a completely discretionary gift.

The assumptions that you seem to be accepting at face value, as truth-claims about the world, for which it is literally impossible for you to know are: 1. Trump's father was suffering from dementia at the time he revised his will to exclude his eldest son and his family 2. That Trump's father's dementia was so bad that it impaired his capacity to make these kinds of decisions on his own (this is implicit in your claim, but should be stated) and 3. That is was Trump's idea, and not his father's, to disinherit his eldest son 4.  That Trump exercised some kind of undue influence over his father in order to get him to disinherit his eldest son and his family.

There is literally NO WAY for you, or I, to know whether any of those things are true. All you have is literally one or two sentences from a New York Times article saying that this is what the son of the dead eldest brother alleged in a lawsuit, which was settled out of Court for terms that nobody here knows at all. 

The idea that you can say, with a straight face, and with any kind of certainty, that "Donald Trump convinced his demented father to cut his older brother (and his brother's kids) out of his will, " - which is what you claimed - is absolutely absurd. You can't do it, and if you think you can, you're wrong - at least on the basis of the "evidence" that's been presented - which is basically nothing at all.

As for whether it's "extremely brutal" to stop making voluntary financial payments to someone who is suing you and trying to take millions of dollars from you - I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I sue people for a living and that is perfectly rational behavior for any client in that situation. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 You're right in that I do not know the gory details. I don't know for a fact that this was Donald's idea, it may well have been his father's. What the Times reported on its' face is bad enough as far as I'm concerned. Trump was a multi-millionaire with or without his portion of his father's will. To deny a sick infant (who is a relative of yours) medical care over a lawsuit involving a small portion of your fortune is reprehensible in my eyes. It's a low-blow. I don't care how you want to parse it, I believe it speaks to his lack of character.

[ThinkerX]

Insiders contemplate a plan for the GOP to execute itself live on CNN:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/could-brokered-convention-yield-a-ryan-nomination/ar-AAgjvUr

 

A wave of predictions about at least one brokered convention is a quadrennial flash in the pan. Talk about the Republicans deadlocking in Cleveland come July started more than a month ago. And in recent days, the same climactic plot twist has been envisioned by politically smart people at three successive holiday social gatherings:

The next GOP presidential nominee will be Paul D. Ryan.

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