Stannis definitely dead says Martin

[Dragon in the North]

That had more to do with Dillane's great performance than D&D. doesn't change the fact that double D wanted to sideline stannis in favor of other characters.

The reason Stannis was such an impactful character was due to both Dillane's gripping performance and to the writing of the character. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the bolded. Stannis was given much more prominence and screen time in the show than in the books and was made the central focus of his storyline, rather than a background character.

[Hippocras]

It's called the after episode interviews were statements like like "monster" and "lacks feeling for the common humanity" were used to describe him by D&D

I think you are vastly oversimplifying whatever they said, but even so, anything they did say was based in a longer term picture of where Stannis's story is going than you have. They have it directly from GRRM. And based in the same sort of interviews, GRRM told them that Stannis burns his daughter....which would be a legitimate reason to call him a monster if you ask me.

As for lacking feeling for humanity, that is quite plain in the books. D&D did not invent that. It is precisely why Stannis is so unpopular in the kingdom he wants to rule.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

I think you are vastly oversimplifying whatever they said, but even so, anything they did say was based in a longer term picture of where Stannis's story is going than you have. They have it directly from GRRM. And based in the same sort of interviews, GRRM told them that Stannis burns his daughter....which would be a legitimate reason to call him a monster if you ask me.

As for lacking feeling for humanity, that is quite plain in the books. D&D did not invent that. It is precisely why Stannis is so unpopular in the kingdom he wants to rule.

Oh spare me this "bigger picture" bs a "big part" of his story would be getting rid of the Boltons but they didn't do that they either took out a big moment for him and are giving it to someone else or he never burns his daughter

[Lord Friendzone]

I think you are vastly oversimplifying whatever they said, but even so, anything they did say was based in a longer term picture of where Stannis's story is going than you have. They have it directly from GRRM. And based in the same sort of interviews, GRRM told them that Stannis burns his daughter....which would be a legitimate reason to call him a monster if you ask me.

As for lacking feeling for humanity, that is quite plain in the books. D&D did not invent that. It is precisely why Stannis is so unpopular in the kingdom he wants to rule.

They said this? I don't remember it then. I only heard and watched inside of episode 9 and how GRRM told them that Shireen will die. They never really said that Stannis will be the one to do it in the books. Mel will surely in this like in the show since she's along with Selyse and Shireen at CB.

[Hippocras]

They said this? I don't remember it then. I only heard and watched inside of episode 9 and how GRRM told them that Shireen will die. They never really said that Stannis will be the one to do it in the books. Mel will surely in this like in the show since she's along with Selyse and Shireen at CB.

I would watch the interviews from after the Shireen burning again then. They said something like "when GRRM told us about it" as in, the burning. They then went on to say that in retrospect they could see that was where Stannis's arc had been heading because GRRM set it up. Which is true. As for them directly saying Stannis burns Shireen, no, not in those words. But they were talking about Stannis and the burning being the natural conclusion of his path; Not Mel's path or anyone else's.

[Hippocras]

Oh spare me this "bigger picture" bs a "big part" of his story would be getting rid of the Boltons but they didn't do that they either took out a big moment for him and are giving it to someone else or he never burns his daughter

you must be trolling. Only explanation for this kind of gibberish.

GRRM has told them where the story is going. This is fact. Deal with it. They know more than you.

[Ser Gareth]

I'm not sure he's going to finish the book in 2016 either, which is a shame, but entirely predictable. He seems to be in a bit of a funk and I have to wonder whether he truly knows where hes going with the story at all. Its worrying. 

The interesting bit of what he said though was that there were some characters who were alive in his books and might survive even if they die in the show. It still to be seen who hes really referring to here, as he mentioned a whole host of very minor characters as well.

The key word there is "might".  That's not good news because that means GRRM doesn't know.  And that means he really hasn't worked out how to wrap up the story.

Despite him stating in the past that he won't, I am now convinced he will intentionally change plotlines in the book so that they ARE different to the TV show, even if he told the show runners previously what was going to happen.  This would also explain why he has slowed down so much.  I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get the next book until after the TV series has completely finished, so there is no backlash from the TV producers.  He may well have told them Stannis dies in the battle of Winterfell only now for him to change his mind because the show got there first.

[Ser Gareth]

I would watch the interviews from after the Shireen burning again then. They said something like "when GRRM told us about it" as in, the burning. They then went on to say that in retrospect they could see that was where Stannis's arc had been heading because GRRM set it up. Which is true. As for them directly saying Stannis burns Shireen, no, not in those words. But they were talking about Stannis and the burning being the natural conclusion of his path; Not Mel's path or anyone else's.

I personally suspected that Stannis dies in the battle for Winterfell and Mel tries to resurrect him by burning Shireen.  I think even if this was GRRM's original intention it probably isn't now and I wouldn't even be too shocked if Shireen survives the series.

[Cas Stark]

The key word there is "might".  That's not good news because that means GRRM doesn't know.  And that means he really hasn't worked out how to wrap up the story.

Despite him stating in the past that he won't, I am now convinced he will intentionally change plotlines in the book so that they ARE different to the TV show, even if he told the show runners previously what was going to happen.  This would also explain why he has slowed down so much.  I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get the next book until after the TV series has completely finished, so there is no backlash from the TV producers.  He may well have told them Stannis dies in the battle of Winterfell only now for him to change his mind because the show got there first.

I agree with all of this.

[Dragon in the North]

The key word there is "might".  That's not good news because that means GRRM doesn't know.  And that means he really hasn't worked out how to wrap up the story.

Despite him stating in the past that he won't, I am now convinced he will intentionally change plotlines in the book so that they ARE different to the TV show, even if he told the show runners previously what was going to happen.  This would also explain why he has slowed down so much.  I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get the next book until after the TV series has completely finished, so there is no backlash from the TV producers.  He may well have told them Stannis dies in the battle of Winterfell only now for him to change his mind because the show got there first.

It's possible you may be right about Martin changing things, but I don't view this as a good thing. There's a chance that the changes he makes will flow effortlessly with the story, and I won't have a problem with that, but there's also a chance these changes could upset the story and knock it off balance. I remember how Martin seemed so gleeful and excited that he came up with a twist that the tv show won't be able to pull, as if he was sticking it to them. I'm afraid that Martin changing things out of spite for the show may ruin the story, thought I could be wrong.

[Lord Friendzone]

I would watch the interviews from after the Shireen burning again then. They said something like "when GRRM told us about it" as in, the burning. They then went on to say that in retrospect they could see that was where Stannis's arc had been heading because GRRM set it up. Which is true. As for them directly saying Stannis burns Shireen, no, not in those words. But they were talking about Stannis and the burning being the natural conclusion of his path; Not Mel's path or anyone else's.

Well, then Stannis might not die in the Battle of Winterfell like in the show...as many of us suggested. Return to Castle Black and sacrifice Shireen or something to that. Well, it always seemed to me that Mel will be doing it in the books to bring back Stannis. Like Ser Gareth said. We'll see.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

you must be trolling. Only explanation for this kind of gibberish.

GRRM has told them where the story is going. This is fact. Deal with it. They know more than you.

Im sorry if you have trouble following logic. But Stannis is no where near Shireen and about to fight WF so either he wins and D&D screwed him their or he never hurts Shireen. An fyi D&D said the ending will be the same just not how they get there so the fact they know the ending does not give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Stannis' story.

[A Ghost of Someone]

shireen may in fact burn but considering where the books are, I doubt it will be by Stannis's command.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Step back a bit.

Objectively, if you were GRRM, writing a story that tries to really get a great deal of depth and complexity in, what would be the point of burning Shireen if Stannis had nothing to do with it? I am pretty sure the whole point is that we think Stannis is BOTH a sort of hero in a way, and also a villain, who killed his own brother, and then his own daughter for the sake of his ambition.

And if you object to it being called ambition, think hard. Yes, he was lawfully Robert's heir because Joffrey was not legitimate. However there is no such thing as a "rightful" ruler of people who do not WANT to be ruled by that person. It is abundantly clear that almost  noone in the kingdoms except maybe Davos actually WANTS Stannis to be king. So it goes back to the question of where power comes from, and what the basis of legitimate rule is. 

As I recall Daenerys did nothing about Viserys death which makes her the same level of villian, I'm sorry but the whole plot line is entirely to convoluted to make sense of it in that direction, lets take a look at where we are in the books, Stannis is outside winterfel, Mel and shireen are at the wall, and they aren't heading south, and Brienne is in the riverlands and about to have a showdown with Jaime/ stone heart. Once again, you would need a lot of pieces to move QUICKLY for them to get anywhere near there. I also have no idea how in the hell you would get that from the pink letter. No, mel would burn shireen on her own. Mel's pov cleary shows she is not a smart woman, shes a believer in what she believes and that is that. As it is, I never cared about what stannis wanted, his show form is quite brain dead. His book form is quite intelligent, possibly above tyrion but below LF and Varys. His wants don't explain the way he has handled anything in the book or the show. If he was truly ambitious he would join the faith of the seven, input a high speton the shared his beliefs, get his wife killed, and marry a better lady. Stannis is... well stannis. He does what he thinks is right, ambition might be a cause, but not the symptom. 

[Drogonthedread]

As I recall Daenerys did nothing about Viserys death which makes her the same level of villian, I'm sorry but the whole plot line is entirely to convoluted to make sense of it in that direction, lets take a look at where we are in the books, Stannis is outside winterfel, Mel and shireen are at the wall, and they aren't heading south, and Brienne is in the riverlands and about to have a showdown with Jaime/ stone heart. Once again, you would need a lot of pieces to move QUICKLY for them to get anywhere near there. I also have no idea how in the hell you would get that from the pink letter. No, mel would burn shireen on her own. Mel's pov cleary shows she is not a smart woman, shes a believer in what she believes and that is that. As it is, I never cared about what stannis wanted, his show form is quite brain dead. His book form is quite intelligent, possibly above tyrion but below LF and Varys. His wants don't explain the way he has handled anything in the book or the show. If he was truly ambitious he would join the faith of the seven, input a high speton the shared his beliefs, get his wife killed, and marry a better lady. Stannis is... well stannis. He does what he thinks is right, ambition might be a cause, but not the symptom. 

i will never understand how fans of someone defending the actions of who was planning to kill his brother the first chapter we see him and went on to attack him and killed him with shadow baby .....but can't see how a girl has no power in that situation and she did what she could ....seriously you are comparing a king to a wife of khal who simply doesn't have that much power especially when there are other khals who wanted her brother too

The key word there is "might".  That's not good news because that means GRRM doesn't know.  And that means he really hasn't worked out how to wrap up the story.

Despite him stating in the past that he won't, I am now convinced he will intentionally change plotlines in the book so that they ARE different to the TV show, even if he told the show runners previously what was going to happen.  This would also explain why he has slowed down so much.  I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get the next book until after the TV series has completely finished, so there is no backlash from the TV producers.  He may well have told them Stannis dies in the battle of Winterfell only now for him to change his mind because the show got there first.

its been one of my fears too ....but if he goes on this road iam certain the books will never see the light of the day ...if Martin is having trouble to finish the story he knows about twenty years ...just think about the how many years it will take him to come up with a new story and plots

[7-KG]

About him being confirmed dead, I never understood why people thought he wasn't, why they'd want to think that he wasn't, or what role he would have if he lived.

Honestly, it was mostly wishful thinking (the theory about him being alive was silly, and made little sense).

[Stag_legion]

Honestly, it was mostly wishful thinking (the theory about him being alive was silly, and made little sense).

Or maybe because it was the first time the death of a major character was not shown! I still think the scene in itself looks like a classic fake death scene (cutting away before the death blow is pretty cliche way of doing a fake death), but that might just be a fail on the part of the show with how they framed that scene and unintentionally made it seem like he may be alive. 

[Marcus Agrippa]

i will never understand how fans of someone defending the actions of who was planning to kill his brother the first chapter we see him and went on to attack him and killed him with shadow baby .....but can't see how a girl has no power in that situation and she did what she could ....seriously you are comparing a king to a wife of khal who simply doesn't have that much power especially when there are other khals who wanted her brother too

its been one of my fears too ....but if he goes on this road iam certain the books will never see the light of the day ...if Martin is having trouble to finish the story he knows about twenty years ...just think about the how many years it will take him to come up with a new story and plots

Ugh, a blind daenerys fan. INB4 som sort of rediculous fight starts. I have my opinion you have yours. I personally understand why daenerys did what she did. If she would have spoken up it would have made her look better. That being said, I still don't like her fans, jon fans, and stannis fans have some sort of belief their character is the best when really, all of them are sort of pricks, We all know the best character in the book is that hightower guy who literally disappeared into his hightower. He literally might be the safest character to like in the story. He can't die while he's in that tower.

[Drogonthedread]

Ugh, a blind daenerys fan. INB4 som sort of rediculous fight starts. I have my opinion you have yours. I personally understand why daenerys did what she did. If she would have spoken up it would have made her look better. That being said, I still don't like her fans, jon fans, and stannis fans have some sort of belief their character is the best when really, all of them are sort of pricks, We all know the best character in the book is that hightower guy who literally disappeared into his hightower. He literally might be the safest character to like in the story. He can't die while he's in that tower.

FWIW I was not speaking about you ...But yes iam blind dany fan ...but do tell me what she should have done  when Hewas threating to take tge baby out of her ...its not like She has not tried to stop him from doing stupid things the moment he entered the place. ...my problem is those who come up with all sorts of explanations for stannis justified in his killing of renly can't see how dany couldn't have done anything ..

when one says stannis is a kinslayer the immediate response is what about dany ....you can find that in the other thread ...its annoying ...  

I like those as yourself and drunkard and many others who understands stannsis better and appreciates him for what he is than creating their own fantasy version.

 

 

 

 

 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Ugh, a blind daenerys fan. INB4 som sort of rediculous fight starts. I have my opinion you have yours. I personally understand why daenerys did what she did. If she would have spoken up it would have made her look better. That being said, I still don't like her fans, jon fans, and stannis fans have some sort of belief their character is the best when really, all of them are sort of pricks, We all know the best character in the book is that hightower guy who literally disappeared into his hightower. He literally might be the safest character to like in the story. He can't die while he's in that tower.

lol. Not that I disagree with you humor but was it not Jorah Mormont's wayward wife, Lyness Hightower, his daughter that is now the concubine of some rich prince in Essos? Hightower married her off to Jorah to get her out of there as she is also suspected of sleeping with, I forget the name of the Nightswatchmen that was the singer, maybe the one that Arya killed in Braavos who was deserting. Yeah, he was caught in bed with her or something and got sent to the wall for it. Unless I am mixing it up?