Jojen Paste

[Meera of Tarth]

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

1) Ewww indeed, indeed. Meera and Hodor may not have a choice in saving Jojen or releasing Bran. We just don't know yet. The CotF may end up as little cretins or something? Bloodraven appears to have the ability to glamour (on some level) and could have them under his control. He was a "sinister sorcerer" in his flesh-life. Meera and Hodor may not really know what is happening until it's too late, try to save Jojen or release Bran only to either be killed or have to flee out the back door. Jojen may think of his death as a sacrifice for the greater good and goes along with it??? Kinda like Mel could be the Nissa Nissa in the AA prophecy. She is just THAT devout a follower.

I have a mini-theory that while Bran is hooked up and has his visions he sees Jon being stabbed either through Mormont's Raven's eyes or sees Jon about to be burned/resurrected at the ring of Wierwoods where Jon took his Watch vows. Maybe this is where Bran decides he wants to leave, to go hep his brother, but Bloodraven refuses, an arguement ensues, the glamored CotF try to step in to hold Bran down, Meera and Hodor fight and tussle with them and then they make a break for it.

I just don't see this whole cave scenario as just an innocent training experience. Since when in the entire series have we met any character that was just all "good" or didn't have an ulterior motive? Something bad, weird, gross or creepy will happen.

2) Agreed. Jojen is aware of something gloomy-doomy. He has embraced it but Meera is refusing to accept it, acknowledge it or doesn't know every little detail yet.

Whatever happens, who lives or dies, this is definitely one of the top two storylines I cannot wait to read more of... one day 

Yes, the real truth is that any of them is very comfortable with this situation, and I don't think Meera will confront it very well if she finds Jojen is dead and that Bran is totally unhappy there. I have a feeling that she will try to stop all of this but I'm not so sure if she will be able to do that.

[LmL]

23 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Meera paste is just worse than Daario being Euron, and if Jojen's paste (if it is to be real) is going to become Meera paste I'll never ever watch the show again. If the books confirm any Meera paste theory I just don't know how I will react, it's just insane.

 

.........

about Jojen paste, despite of the fact that it may be foreshadowed as mentioned here and in other threads, I am not completely sure of this. But the thing which that I believe the most is that Jojen might have been killed in sacrifice and he ate his eyes. 

I was just kidding about Meera paste.

I think it's possible they just drained some of Jojen's blood, as opposed to putting him in a blender. 

[Jon Fossoway]

I used to think that this Jojen Paste theory meant Jojen's semen. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

7 hours ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

I saw a theory that Jojen is going to be eaten by Ghost, while Jon is either in his second life or temporarily warging him.  There's a mention of a sinkhole that leads into the caves, what other reason than to have something fall accidentally into the cave?  When Jojen and Meera first see Summer and Shaggydog, Meera is scared for Jojen, but Jojen is unafraid - the theory is that Jojen saw that he was going to be eaten by a direwolf and has told Meera, but did not tell her that it was a white direwolf.  The theory is that Ghost is going to be drawn to the cave by Bloodraven or Bran and be starving to death when he gets there.  He will fall through the sinkhole into the cave, and then come across a little crannogman who seems to be ready to be eaten.

You gotta stop Goin into some of of those shady threads without protection. You could catch a pox.

[Lost Melnibonean]

8 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I used to think that this Jojen Paste theory meant Jojen's semen. 

Eww. I hope the other fellow was right and it's Jojen's brain and eyeballs. 

[The Fattest Leech]

7 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I used to think that this Jojen Paste theory meant Jojen's semen. 

I just puked... A lot! If I ever see this on screen I will freak. Thanks 

And stay off those other websites. Or atleast clear your history. 

[Lady of Butterflies]

1 hour ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I used to think that this Jojen Paste theory meant Jojen's semen. 

It's worse than people that think Meera paste is her menstrual blood.

[Curled Finger]

9 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

1) Ewww indeed, indeed. Meera and Hodor may not have a choice in saving Jojen or releasing Bran. We just don't know yet. The CotF may end up as little cretins or something? Bloodraven appears to have the ability to glamour (on some level) and could have them under his control. He was a "sinister sorcerer" in his flesh-life. Meera and Hodor may not really know what is happening until it's too late, try to save Jojen or release Bran only to either be killed or have to flee out the back door. Jojen may think of his death as a sacrifice for the greater good and goes along with it??? Kinda like Mel could be the Nissa Nissa in the AA prophecy. She is just THAT devout a follower.

I have a mini-theory that while Bran is hooked up and has his visions he sees Jon being stabbed either through Mormont's Raven's eyes or sees Jon about to be burned/resurrected at the ring of Wierwoods where Jon took his Watch vows. Maybe this is where Bran decides he wants to leave, to go hep his brother, but Bloodraven refuses, an arguement ensues, the glamored CotF try to step in to hold Bran down, Meera and Hodor fight and tussle with them and then they make a break for it.

I just don't see this whole cave scenario as just an innocent training experience. Since when in the entire series have we met any character that was just all "good" or didn't have an ulterior motive? Something bad, weird, gross or creepy will happen.

2) Agreed. Jojen is aware of something gloomy-doomy. He has embraced it but Meera is refusing to accept it, acknowledge it or doesn't know every little detail yet.

Whatever happens, who lives or dies, this is definitely one of the top two storylines I cannot wait to read more of... one day 

You make me laugh, Fattest Leech.   We read D&E differently, I saw BR as a good guy through Egg's eyes.   Hardliner perhaps, but not bad.  And yes, 14 year-old Jojen could very well be ready to take one for the team, but I suspect he holds something back that he either cannot explain or doesn't understand or any number of things.    As you say, we just don't know yet.   Still, I think Jojen has to know enough about the mystery of getting Bran to the 3EC to risk absolutely everything and his beloved sister to get his prince there.   Sure, it could be manipulation, but Papa Reed had to put his seal of approval on it and I'm convinced he knows a lot more than anyone in this crazy story.   What think you of all Bran's coma dreams, chatting with the crow, falling and flying, having corn in his pocket?   Seems to me this dream crow engaged a dying Bran and may be responsible for keeping him alive between consciousness.  

I think the first part of your mini theory is probably spot on.   Why wouldn't Bran see one if not both of these major things?   If we agree that Jon is integral to the story Bran really should be informed.   As to the fight afterward, well yes, that's plausible--if BR is up to no good and that friend, is where we differ.  I will hold your scenario in mind when I read it unfold if we ever get Winds.   Something bad, weird, gross and/or creepy happens in every chapter, but I'm hoping it doesn't include Jojen paste ever.    

Yah, Meera seems singularly focused for a teenager, doesn't she?   Wonder if she has any clue Bran's in love with her.   Wonder if that means anything at all in that Bran is only what? 10?  As her father's daughter I can see Meera not knowing or understanding all the reasons for this trip, but bound and determined to undertake the adventure.   She is so steadfast and loyal and fits her role as protector and provider well.  If the children are any indication of the father this Howland Reed is going to be quite a character.   All in all, the little band has been protected for the whole journey and I have to suspect BR isn't the only one involved in this protection.    If not I hope there are still stories Jojen & Meera have not yet told.   Maybe if these weren't HR's kids I would be more open to BR=baddy bad, but I think HR knows what's up.   Thanks for the reply I always enjoy your sense of humor.  

[The Fattest Leech]

On 2/10/2016 at 9:25 PM, Curled Finger said:

You make me laugh, Fattest Leech.   We read D&E differently, I saw BR as a good guy through Egg's eyes.  

nvrm

[Curled Finger]

10 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I love BR because he came off as kinda sneaky to me. I guess I'm a sucker for a good ol'fashioned bad guy 

Now, my dear curly friend, if you are referring to me calling BR a sorcerer then I have a few sources for you 

Bloodraven is referred to as a sorcerer many times in Sworn Sword and it is even said he most likely "bewitched" the King. And there is the talk of him learning the dark arts and is related to mist (like Dracula!... Couldn't resist), and so on and so forth. Within every rumor is an ounce of truth. I think during this timeframe BR was just beginning his sorcerer lessons. 

https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=Bloodraven+ 

The wiki even refers to him as the sinister sorcerer.  http://m.westeros.org/index.php/Bloodraven 

I'd feel better if we could hash this out over a pint 

It is people who don't actually know BR who slander him.   He cultivates this good behavior by intimidation and it works for him.   It is Egg's opinion that sealed my persuasion.   Egg actually knows him and trusts him.   BR 1.0 took his job seriously and did a very good job.  And I may just be a sucker for a misunderstood wizard, too.  Didn't Gandalf have a bad rep at the beginning of The Hobbit? But no, I wasn't referring to sinister sorcerer at all.   Only the rumors.   As to these dark arts, his beloved sister practiced (you know how utterly stupid young men in love are) and if the Blackwoods are the Warg Kings that would explain an awful lot. The ability to warg or foretell the future is considered dark arts.  So yeah, I think he probably did do all these things, but not for the forces of evil--more exercising his early greenseeing & warg talents.  

I'd gladly buy a 12 pack to have the pleasure of the conversation, Leech. 

[Lady of Butterflies]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Yah, Meera seems singularly focused for a teenager, doesn't she?   Wonder if she has any clue Bran's in love with her.   Wonder if that means anything at all in that Bran is only what? 10?  As her father's daughter I can see Meera not knowing or understanding all the reasons for this trip, but bound and determined to undertake the adventure.   She is so steadfast and loyal and fits her role as protector and provider well.  If the children are any indication of the father this Howland Reed is going to be quite a character.   All in all, the little band has been protected for the whole journey and I have to suspect BR isn't the only one involved in this protection.    If not I hope there are still stories Jojen & Meera have not yet told.   Maybe if these weren't HR's kids I would be more open to BR=baddy bad, but I think HR knows what's up.   Thanks for the reply I always enjoy your sense of humor.  

I've wondered several times if she knows that Bran has a crush on her. I think she is very innocent and not realized, or realized  and paid no attention, since he is only a little child.

[Curled Finger]

6 minutes ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

I've wondered several times if she knows that Bran has a crush on her. I think she is very innocent and not realized, or realized  and paid no attention, since he is only a little child.

The little side story was another twist I didn't think was required.  But I have to believe that it's written for a reason.  GRRM isn't particularly sweet or sentimental--try finding a single outward declaration like Bran makes between Jamie & Brienne or Sansa & The Hound.    Sure there are clues, but nothing like that hammer Bran drops.  Bran's the one who doesn't like love stories, he tells Jojen, Meera and Old Nan he wants knights or scary stories.   Gotta mean something to Bran's story at least.   And Meera seems oblivious.   Maybe this is what Jojen's pouting about.  

[chrisdaw]

Bran falling in love with Meera is about Jaime. That line, "The things I do for love", is significant and stuck in Bran's mind for a reason. Bran is going to learn what it's like to love, of all the different terrible and epic things other people have done for love (Bloodraven kinslaying, Lyanna & Rhaegar eloping and starting a war), and then contemplate what he would do (or has done, mind raping Hodor to be with Meera) for love. Then he will do as Ned said

Quote

The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.

and decide Jaime does not deserve to die.

[Meera of Tarth]

14 hours ago, LmL said:

I was just kidding about Meera paste.

I think it's possible they just drained some of Jojen's blood, as opposed to putting him in a blender. 

LOL, one of the things I wonder the most about this theory is how Jojen was killed: was he cut into thin pieces or BR used a blender as you say (a tasty smoothie). Poor Jojen

11 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

 

I think the first part of your mini theory is probably spot on.   Why wouldn't Bran see one if not both of these major things?   If we agree that Jon is integral to the story Bran really should be informed.   As to the fight afterward, well yes, that's plausible--if BR is up to no good and that friend, is where we differ.  I will hold your scenario in mind when I read it unfold if we ever get Winds.   Something bad, weird, gross and/or creepy happens in every chapter, but I'm hoping it doesn't include Jojen paste ever.    

Yah, Meera seems singularly focused for a teenager, doesn't she?   Wonder if she has any clue Bran's in love with her.   Wonder if that means anything at all in that Bran is only what? 10?  As her father's daughter I can see Meera not knowing or understanding all the reasons for this trip, but bound and determined to undertake the adventure.   She is so steadfast and loyal and fits her role as protector and provider well.  If the children are any indication of the father this Howland Reed is going to be quite a character.   All in all, the little band has been protected for the whole journey and I have to suspect BR isn't the only one involved in this protection.    If not I hope there are still stories Jojen & Meera have not yet told.   Maybe if these weren't HR's kids I would be more open to BR=baddy bad, but I think HR knows what's up.   Thanks for the reply I always enjoy your sense of humor.  

Yes, Meera is absolutely focused on their quest, she is extremely responsible, and she never shows she is going to abandon any of them. Except, perhaps, in Bran III, when she gradually realizes that the journey is going to an end and has mixed feelings: on the one hand she wants Bran to become what he is "meant to be"; on the other, she feels sad, as well. I am looking forward to the immediate future of them all, and, particularly, Meera and Bran.

And HR, he definitely knows a lot more than them; I wonder if he really wanted his son to die as a sacrifice, if that's the case.

And, about Meera being aware of Bran's crush on her, I really don't know what to think. Bran is so shy and he doesn't give strong signals to her (at least, we are only basically told about his thoughts, but maybe he blushes more usually than he thinks and Meera has a great intuition). 

9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Bran falling in love with Meera is about Jaime. That line, "The things I do for love", is significant and stuck in Bran's mind for a reason. Bran is going to learn what it's like to love, of all the different terrible and epic things other people have done for love (Bloodraven kinslaying, Lyanna & Rhaegar eloping and starting a war), and then contemplate what he would do (or has done, mind raping Hodor to be with Meera) for love. Then he will do as Ned said

and decide Jaime does not deserve to die.

Frankly, I think that Bran will be heavily influenced by his father at the end, and I always wondered  if Jaime and Bran would meet again (or at least he would remember  Jaime). He is depicted as a golden shadow in aGOT in Bran's chapters so I thinks there is chance for that. Bran is probably my favourite male character and it would be a good ending. I also like Jaime, but Bran should decide what to do (and as Lord of Winterfell would be amazing). However, I never thought that Bran's crush on Meera would have anything to do with this scenario it's interesting.

[Lady of Butterflies]

12 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Bran falling in love with Meera is about Jaime. That line, "The things I do for love", is significant and stuck in Bran's mind for a reason. Bran is going to learn what it's like to love, of all the different terrible and epic things other people have done for love (Bloodraven kinslaying, Lyanna & Rhaegar eloping and starting a war), and then contemplate what he would do (or has done, mind raping Hodor to be with Meera) for love. Then he will do as Ned said

and decide Jaime does not deserve to die.

Really interesting theory.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

First off, love me some Jojen paste (theories), but I've gotten stuck on some little things...

I can't ever get over the similarities between the House of the Undying and Blood Raven's Hole... Especially that Dany gets fed the Shade of the Evening (described as the same weird taste changing bit as the Weirwood paste) by a little person and in the end some seemingly ancient immobile sorcerers on "heart" thrones (heart tree, besting indigo heart) try to eat her!

Next, while I know I must be a horrible minority and I have a penchant for crackpot ideas... I am not convinced that Blood Raven is the Three Eyed Crow...

And Finally at least for now there is the rat cook story... I know it lines up nicely with Manderly... But hear me out. A man has a right to vengeance but the old gods don't forgive breaking guest right, Bloodraven was sent to the wall for breaking guest right... And was seemingly loyal to the Targaryens even if he didn't have the name. Let's not forget that Ned played a crucial role in ending that dynasty. Bloodraven was sent to the wall by Egg (someone I think of as relatively good) and was friends with Aemon, and became LC of the NW... But we know him for an oath breaker, so is he still a member of the nights watch? Has he broken his vow or is he still trying to uphold it, cause it doesn't seem like he's quite dead yet!

[Curled Finger]

12 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes, Meera is absolutely focused on their quest, she is extremely responsible, and she never shows she is going to abandon any of them. Except, perhaps, in Bran III, when she gradually realizes that the journey is going to an end and has mixed feelings: on the one hand she wants Bran to become what he is "meant to be"; on the other, she feels sad, as well. I am looking forward to the immediate future of them all, and, particularly, Meera and Bran.

And HR, he definitely knows a lot more than them; I wonder if he really wanted his son to die as a sacrifice, if that's the case.

And, about Meera being aware of Bran's crush on her, I really don't know what to think. Bran is so shy and he doesn't give strong signals to her (at least, we are only basically told about his thoughts, but maybe he blushes more usually than he thinks and Meera has a great intuition). 

Frankly, I think that Bran will be heavily influenced by his father at the end, and I always wondered  if Jaime and Bran would meet again (or at least he would remember  Jaime). He is depicted as a golden shadow in aGOT in Bran's chapters so I thinks there is chance for that. Bran is probably my favourite male character and it would be a good ending. I also like Jaime, but Bran should decide what to do (and as Lord of Winterfell would be amazing). However, I never thought that Bran's crush on Meera would have anything to do with this scenario it's interesting.

Those dads sure are a major influence over so many characters--I am touched when Bran wants to comfort Meera and says the weirpaste tastes like his mother's kisses.   Come on, it tastes like Mom's kisses--how bad can it be?   Then again I know a young lady who is fond of calling cotton candy crack for babies.   I'll have to think about this.   Meera is dutiful to the bitter end.   I imagine if I was her I would be bored out of my mind with no sunshine or real food or adventure to have.  She's sort of a 3rd wheel on a dream date in this current situation.   Add to that Jojen's pouting and sickening and apparent lack of forthcomingness, well there is a lot to make a kid restless and miserable there in the cave.   I got nothing for Meera actually understanding Bran's crush on her, but I think they are close enough for her to understand he is changing in ways she couldn't really fathom.   She's there to serve and has little to do in that service now.  It's clear she at least has to get out of there.   Don't discount the undisciplined power of Bran's thoughts, he may actually get a lot closer to her than anyone will be comfortable with simply because he's thinking it and feeling strange.  

As to Chrisdaw's connecting Bran's crush to Jamie's horrid act of love, it's symmetrical and poetic and makes an awful lot of sense in a story about a little boy who wants nothing to do with love stories.    Man that's good. 

[The Fattest Leech]

3 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

... I got nothing for Meera actually understanding Bran's crush on her, but I think they are close enough for her to understand he is changing in ways she couldn't really fathom.   ...

Am I allowed to make a morning wood joke... or is that too crass? Bran is coming up to that age.

[Curled Finger]

7 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

First off, love me some Jojen paste (theories), but I've gotten stuck on some little things...

I can't ever get over the similarities between the House of the Undying and Blood Raven's Hole... Especially that Dany gets fed the Shade of the Evening (described as the same weird taste changing bit as the Weirwood paste) by a little person and in the end some seemingly ancient immobile sorcerers on "heart" thrones (heart tree, besting indigo heart) try to eat her!

Next, while I know I must be a horrible minority and I have a penchant for crackpot ideas... I am not convinced that Blood Raven is the Three Eyed Crow...

And Finally at least for now there is the rat cook story... I know it lines up nicely with Manderly... But hear me out. A man has a right to vengeance but the old gods don't forgive breaking guest right, Bloodraven was sent to the wall for breaking guest right... And was seemingly loyal to the Targaryens even if he didn't have the name. Let's not forget that Ned played a crucial role in ending that dynasty. Bloodraven was sent to the wall by Egg (someone I think of as relatively good) and was friends with Aemon, and became LC of the NW... But we know him for an oath breaker, so is he still a member of the nights watch? Has he broken his vow or is he still trying to uphold it, cause it doesn't seem like he's quite dead yet!

BR is not the 3EC--how utterly original.   I've never seen that before.   Any ideas who 3EC might really be?   If you've seen the new photos of season 6 released today there is a very interesting one of the actors who play Bran and BR.  The show just confuses things for me, but it looks like HBO may give me all the story I'm apt to get.  

As to your last comment I think BR is still a brother even if he's abandoned his post as LC.   Do we really know he abandoned it voluntarily?  I am believing more with each read that NW was designed to serve a far nobler purpose than it currently does.   And I think BR is not a bad guy so I figured he answered a higher calling in going to the cave.  Won't I feel foolish if the Fattest Leech is right and he's actually the devil?

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Am I allowed to make a morning wood joke... or is that too crass? Bran is coming up to that age.

You are a naughty naughty girl.