Good D&D Pulp

[Darth Richard II]

I know, I know. And peterbound, yes I know they killed your family and you hate them all.

Anyways, as some of you may or may not know, for some Goddamn reason in the early 2000s I decided I had to read and collect EVER Forgotten Realms novel, and as I'm sitting here, pondering what books I want to bring in to B&N during there buy used weekend, I decided that I was insane, and why the fuck do I have this shit.

So I was wondering if any of these books are worth reading, in the boards humble opinion. I plan to keep the Drizzt stuff, because they're fun, ok? And I haven't read any of Paul S Kemp's stuff, but apparently from what I hear looking around, they're very good(they're super high rated on GR too). I've read them all up to about 200 or so, and I have like, every FR book up to...2012?

Anyway, people not peterbound are welcome to chime in.

I'm also super tired and I hope this topic makes sense.

[Mars447]

The Brimstone Angels series by Erin M Evans is a few notches higher on the "Good writing" scale than most Forgotten Realms books.  Great worldbuilding (her settings feel very lived in) and characters, plus a mix of modern fantasy moral ambiguity and shades of grey.

[Astromech]

I'll admit I enjoyed what I read of the Drizzt novels. I was entertained by the Cleric Quintet as well. I never realized there were so many damn FR books. I remember being entertained by one or two Ravenloft novels. I think they were Vampire of the Mists and Knight of the Black Rose.

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah there are...200+? Most of the non Drizzt ones I;ve read are poop, though you get the good stand alone now in then shoved into a random series.

I also apparently own every Dark Sun book, although that's less impressive since there are only like 13.

 

Edit: Also the Cleric Quintet ties into the Drizzt stuff eventually, I think, because at this point Salvatore can do what he wants, although he's quit Hasbro like 3 times.

[Maester Llama]

I too would recommend trying out the Erin Evans Brimstone Angels stuff. I've only read one, but I have been moved to seek out more, which says a fair bit, since -- though I absolutely wallowed in this shit at one time and still have a strong degree of nostalgia for it -- I am essentially lapsed at this point in terms of actually reading what's released.

 

Elaine Cunningham was my favourite Realms writer back in the day, once I discovered her stuff, out in front of Salvatore by a healthy distance. She has several series about different groups of characters, and quality-wise, though I had favourites as I recall, you basically can't go wrong. Songs and Swords was probably my single favourite Realms series all round, followed by Starlight and Shadows [her Daughter of the Drow stuff]. Both those series have minor completion issues. I've always gotten the impression that Cunningham's plans exceeded what she actually managed to write / convince TSR and Wizards to publish by a fair bit. A sixth and final Songs and Swords novel was planned but never happened, due in part as I understand it to some of the RPG design introducing some lore that fucked up her planned ending in a significant way. And there's some text in the second Daughter of the Drow novel as I recall that talks a fairly big game about the characters' future destinies in such a way as to imply a long epic unfolding storyline ahead, whereas in fact there was only ever one more novel, somewhat delayed. But neither series ends on a screw-you cliffhanger, and both endings are bandaged by short stories. I suspect you've read her stuff, but if not I'd definitely at least take a look before you ditch the whole Realms collection.

 

I've read some Kemp, though not enough to talk a lot about him. He delivers a somewhat more gritty, punkish Realms, while still keeping the place recognizable. His stuff's fast-paced and good on momentum. He starts out very street-level, but gets quite epic later on -- in the last one of his I read dudes were basically magicking each other's and their own guts out and back in again during fights, and gods and devil lords were major presences. His first full-length novel, Shadow's Witness, was distinctly meh imo, but when I revisited him later in his Realms timeline he'd upped his game significantly. Definitely one to try. Of note: Kemp has, it seems, been back and forth with WotC multiple times on account of them not wanting to pay his fee, and now appears to have walked definitively. I'm not sure how unfinished his storylines are, and if he left them hanging to any degree that might be a problem, because I really don't think he's comin' back this time. [You may actually know more about this than I do.]

 

I'm afraid I haven't got a lot in terms of less well-known Realms writers. I thought Eric Scott De Bie's first one, Ghostwalker, was fun in a theatrical, pulp yarn way, but his second one was blah. Byers was fine and Baker was fine, but I read both of those because their stuff focused on major setting events, and I don't think I'd have dug them near as much if I was reading them purely as novels. The Cormyr books were quite okay when other writers were around to curb Ed Greenwood's numerous excesses. [I think I've heard you go Darth Richard Mode on Greenwood around here before so you know this, but for the general public good: Avoid Ed Greenwood's fiction as you value your soul. He is a brilliant RPG storyteller and world-builder, but oh holy shit his prose fiction is abominable.] Don't bother with the War of the Spider Queen; they show some promise and take some interesting story turns but in the end they're shite, and to add insult to injury they lead to additional shite in later stories. So far as current stuff goes Evans is where it's at, and so far as I'm concerned the only place it's at, and the backlist is Cunningham and Kemp all the way.

 

I'm thinking of re-embracing tie-ins and trying out the Pathfinder fiction line some time soonish.

[Darth Richard II]

Ha, I've actually read War of the Spider Queen. (IN fact, all six HARDCOVERS are sitting in the to be gotten rid of pile as I type this). First 2 were good then, well, shite is a good word.

Cunnngham I have a love hate relationship with. Swords and Shadows was good, and the Drow stuff was decent, but that other series that for the life of me I can not remember the name of was absolute dreck.

And I've read faaaar too much Greenwood. My God. It burns. It burns usssss.

I'm not surprised Kemp left again. Hasbro has been treating their writers like garbage. From what I understand they had to drive a truck of gold up to Salvatore's house. And Greenwood(!) at one point quit. In fact I think its Salvatore, Greenwood and Evans, and everyone else has either been fired or given the middle finger. I know Cunningham had 2 or 3 more books planned and pretty much, well, gave them the middle finger.  It's pretty6 sad considering how high the output was back in the day. I remember when it was a new FR/Dragonlance/Ebberon book a month.

I'll probably end up keeping Salvatore and some of the Cunningham., I'm iffy on the Kemp, since he quit(again).

Richard Bakker(haha) had a hardcover series I thought was pretty good. Typical pulp sord and sorcery, but the action was very well done. Also there was a lich, and liches are cool.

Edit: Oh yeah, the Cormyr stuff was ok. Denning and Greenwood seem to cancel each others suck out, plus no Eliminster. On the Greenwood note though, the ending to that shitty ass spellfire trology he wrote made me laugh my balls off, I'll uh spoiler for Hand of FIre

Spoiler

Pretty much the chick with the spellfire explodes and dies and her boyfriend is sad and dies of depression. Wtf?

 

[Darth Richard II]

Further aside, some of these MMPs are worth a stupid amount of money. o.O

[Relic]

5 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Further aside, some of these MMPs are worth a stupid amount of money. o.O

really?

fuck, wish i had kept the 50 or so DragonLance and FR books i had as a young teen. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

If younhave Kemps Twilight War book 3 (Shadowrealm i think), its probably worth a lot due to being out of print for so long.  

[Jo498]

I quite liked the first two Dragonlance cycles (although I was already about 21 or so when I read them) but I am somewhat wary to revisit them not to be sorely disappointed. Never read the "Next Generation" ones as they came out when I had finally outgrown that stuff.

I also read the first few books of the "crystal shard" series but have no desire to read them again. I always wanted to read more of the Drizzt books but I think I read only one (Homeland). Everything else I encountered (Dragonlance prequels or the Pool-of-Radiance-book, yeah I loved those computer games) were mostly terrible.

Edit: I guess "Icewind Dale" is what I meant with "Crystal Shard" (which is the first book). I think I read the original trilogy complete, but only "Homeland" of the other Drizzt books (prequel in this case).

[MisterOJ]

I read a crap-ton of Forgotten Realms novels back in middle school and high school in the early to mid 1990s. For whatever reason, other than the original Icewind Dale trilogy, I never really cared for the Drizzt books. I remember liking the Cleric Quintet a lot. And a few of the Harpers books. I thought the Empire trilogy was a lot of fun too. I liked some of the Dragonlance stuff too - and some Dark Sun books (anyone remember those?) as well. But that was me as a teenager. The only other books I was reading that weren't produced by TSR were mostly written by either Terry Brooks or Piers Anthony.

In recent years, I have picked up some of those off my bookshelf and given them a glance. I am sure if I actually tried to re-read, my opinion would be totally different, though. I don't think I've ready any of them in nearly 20 years.

 

ETA: Just a random thought I just had when thinking back to those days... I just remembered how, back then, one of my primary sources for deciding what books I'd read next were the handful of pages at the end of the novel that were advertising other books by the same author, publisher or whatever. That is crazy to think about these days with the Internet.

[peterbound]

You know what?  I'm going to read one dragon lance, and one 40K book this month.  Got to be better than this CJ Cherrah shit I've been trying to slog through.  

 

Ha, see, I can contribute 

[Werthead]

The Empire Trilogy is okay (if a bit cheesy). I remember Masquerades being reasonable, but it was a long time ago that I read it. I quite liked James Lowder's stuff (even before he became my first editor), especially the character of General Vrakk (a genuinely honourable orc general).

[Astromech]

15 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

 

I also apparently own every Dark Sun book, although that's less impressive since there are only like 13.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, MisterOJ said:

I read a crap-ton of Forgotten Realms novels back in middle school and high school in the early to mid 1990s. For whatever reason, other than the original Icewind Dale trilogy, I never really cared for the Drizzt books. I remember liking the Cleric Quintet a lot. And a few of the Harpers books. I thought the Empire trilogy was a lot of fun too. I liked some of the Dragonlance stuff too - and some Dark Sun books (anyone remember those?) as well. But that was me as a teenager. The only other books I was reading that weren't produced by TSR were mostly written by either Terry Brooks or Piers Anthony.

 

 

 

I only read the Tribe of One trilogy. The concept was interesting, but the execution was a bit weak. Turns out Sorak's condition acted like a swiss army knife for every predicament he got into. Cool world though.

[Darth Richard II]

2 hours ago, peterbound said:

You know what?  I'm going to read one dragon lance, and one 40K book this month.  Got to be better than this CJ Cherrah shit I've been trying to slog through.  

 

Ha, see, I can contribute 

You might actually enjoy Lord Toade if you can track it down. It's pretty much a Dragon Lance book that makes fun of Dragon Lance.

[felice]

I recall particularly enjoying the Finder's Stone trilogy, but it was long ago and I haven't read anything more recent.

[MisterOJ]

11 minutes ago, felice said:

I recall particularly enjoying the Finder's Stone trilogy, but it was long ago and I haven't read anything more recent.

Oh... I remember that, I think. Did it have the lizard men in it?

[DanteGabriel]

For Dragonlance readers, you might want to check out the Kingpriest trilogy by Chris Pierson (Chosen of the Gods, Divine Hammer, Sacred Fire). Traces the life of the Kingpriest of Istar from simple farmboy to the hubristic cleric who called down the Cataclysm, through the eyes of a warrior who grows alongside him and leads a devoted knightly order. For historically informed readers, there are some nice nods to the medieval Catholic schism that led to a second Pope in Avignon.

[Darth Richard II]

5 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

Oh... I remember that, I think. Did it have the lizard men in it?

It is. They're pretty good too, and often erroneously thought to be based on the PC game, when I believe either the book or maybe the module they are based on came first. Definitely keeping those.

[Jo498]

Kingpriest of Istar sounds nice.

How were those "next generation" Dragonlance books (came out in the mid-1990s or so) received?