Why don't the wildlings just melt a hole through the wall?

[Popsicle_Stan]

Sorry if this has been asked a thousand times! I haven't read the books and don't know if it was ever explained. 

[The Fattest Leech]

Because it's never safe to wake a sleeping ice dragon.

 

Never.

[239JMFL34109]

how? it is a 700 foot high magic ice wall!!!

[WilliamWesterosiWallace]

• It's too thick;
• It wouldn't melt so quickly;
• Brothers patrol the wall, so that sort of thing doesn't happen;
• 20 men can ride abrest at the top of the Wall. What kind of fire melts that thick an ice? Dragonfire? Wildfire?
• They tried cutting the ice with axes once; It worked. But the Watch caught them at it, and froze them inside the Wall. 

That's why. 

[Winter Blues]

I was never under the impression that the Wildlings were all that keen to get on the other side of The Wall until Mance gathered them up to run from The Others. Not keen enough to attempt melting that massive amount of ice, anyway. 

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

melt a hole? thats hillarious.

[Leonardo]

The wall isn't just made of ice. According to an ssm, it's equal parts stone, metal, and ice. Probably some random wood in there too for support beams while building.

[sweetsunray]

 

1 hour ago, WilliamWesterosiWallace said:

• It's too thick;
• It wouldn't melt so quickly;
• Brothers patrol the wall, so that sort of thing doesn't happen;
• 20 men can ride abrest at the top of the Wall. What kind of fire melts that thick an ice? Dragonfire? Wildfire?
• They tried cutting the ice with axes once; It worked. But the Watch caught them at it, and froze them inside the Wall. 

That's why. 

^ this and

 

1 hour ago, Leonardo said:

The wall isn't just made of ice. According to an ssm, it's equal parts stone, metal, and ice. Probably some random wood in there too for support beams while building.

^this

Just the environment temperatures alone are most of the time well below freezing point at the Wall. You don't melt a whole into the ice pack of the North Pole either with a campfire. And even if you manage to melt down a surface layer, it frreezes over sooner than it can melt even more. You'd need several dragons blowing fire at it like a blowtorch for hours and hours.

[Lord Asher Forrester]

Also the children of the forest did put enchantents on the wall, one of that could be something like a "no melting barrier". Or am i just talking shit?

[winterfellbeyondthewall]

1 hour ago, Lord Asher said:

Also the children of the forest did put enchantents on the wall, one of that could be something like a "no melting barrier". Or am i just talking shit?

You're not talking shit but we don't know what kind of spells lie on the wall, it could be something like that or something completely different. The only thing we know for sure is that they're dealing with magic.

[Lord Asher Forrester]

6 minutes ago, winterfellbeyondthewall said:

You're not talking shit but we don't know what kind of spells lie on the wall, it could be something like that or something completely different. The only thing we know for sure is that they're dealing with magic.

One of the enchantements we already know what is for, the one in the Black Gate on Nightfort, it only opens for men of the NW that say a part of their vows.

[The Dames do Moan]

6 hours ago, WilliamWesterosiWallace said:

•  
• 20 men can ride abrest at the top of the Wall.
• They tried cutting the ice with axes once; It worked. But the Watch caught them at it, and froze them inside the Wall. 

I have to say, after watching the show that's one of the things I always forget, is how wide it is. 20 men on horses across is a good chunk of land.

i always imagined the black rock we hear so much about (sea stone chair, etc.) is one of the things beneath the ice.

[winterfellbeyondthewall]

2 hours ago, Lord Asher said:

One of the enchantements we already know what is for, the one in the Black Gate on Nightfort, it only opens for men of the NW that say a part of their vows.

That's right but how do we know that the CotF helped with the spells? Is it mentioned anywhere? Not as far as I know and other than that BtB had magical abilities as well so it most probably was him and not the children.

[Popsicle_Stan]

I've seen all the TV shows (not the books yet) but don't remember the part about the magic spells being put on the wall. Magic changes everything. Otherwise, I'll bet one of those wildling giants could piss a hole through that wall in about 45 minutes. 

[The Arthur Smith]

Also, it's not like the wildlings would know how to malt a hole though the Wall. Even If they do, it would sabotage their plan in many ways.

[Kyll.Ing.]

13 hours ago, Popsicle_Stan said:

I've seen all the TV shows (not the books yet) but don't remember the part about the magic spells being put on the wall. Magic changes everything. Otherwise, I'll bet one of those wildling giants could piss a hole through that wall in about 45 minutes. 

Haha, no.

Melting ice requires a lot of energy, and even in summer you're not getting much help from the weather. The ice is literally a permafrost structure, it's cooled well below freezing temperatures in winter, and it's too large for the core to even heat up to the freezing treshold in summer. Which means that, after the first few metres of melting, hot water poured on the ice would freeze in contact with the much colder wall.

 

Getting the required energy to melt a hole in the wall would require a huge bonfire. One large enough for the smoke to be visible from many, many kilometres around. The Night's Watch would notice, and sen men out to put the fire out and cut down those who made it. Since bonfires need to be maintained, you'd need men to stay around it, and the prospect of fighting the Night's Watch with your back to the Wall makes it hard to find volunteers. Heck, the wood cutting operation alone would probably attract the Watch before a fire could even be lit.

If a large bonfire was lit next to the Wall, water runoff would probably put a damper on things, and there's always the risk of large ice sheets melting off far above, and falling into the fire (and those standing around it). Ice behaves like a fluid, after all, and if you soften it enough it will break, and then gravity would ruin your day. A hole melted into the wall would also be more likely to collapse than to create a useable tunnel.

All in all, it's easier to dig through the wall than to melt your way through it.

[Minstral]

13 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Also, it's not like the wildlings would know how to malt a hole though the Wall. Even If they do, it would sabotage their plan in many ways.

All they need to do is get in contact with some guys from Myr and set up trade contacts..... Myr gets the vauables of the lands beyond the Wall and the Free Folk get the deadliest weapons for their raiders/armies. Standard issue magnifying glasses for all, and free lessons next to the anthill over there.

[Leonardo]

41 minutes ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

Haha, no.

Melting ice requires a lot of energy, and even in summer you're not getting much help from the weather. The ice is literally a permafrost structure, it's cooled well below freezing temperatures in winter, and it's too large for the core to even heat up to the freezing treshold in summer. Which means that, after the first few metres of melting, hot water poured on the ice would freeze in contact with the much colder wall.

 

Getting the required energy to melt a hole in the wall would require a huge bonfire. One large enough for the smoke to be visible from many, many kilometres around. The Night's Watch would notice, and sen men out to put the fire out and cut down those who made it. Since bonfires need to be maintained, you'd need men to stay around it, and the prospect of fighting the Night's Watch with your back to the Wall makes it hard to find volunteers. Heck, the wood cutting operation alone would probably attract the Watch before a fire could even be lit.

If a large bonfire was lit next to the Wall, water runoff would probably put a damper on things, and there's always the risk of large ice sheets melting off far above, and falling into the fire (and those standing around it). Ice behaves like a fluid, after all, and if you soften it enough it will break, and then gravity would ruin your day. A hole melted into the wall would also be more likely to collapse than to create a useable tunnel.

All in all, it's easier to dig through the wall than to melt your way through it.

Wonderful

[Lord Asher Forrester]

22 hours ago, winterfellbeyondthewall said:

That's right but how do we know that the CotF helped with the spells? Is it mentioned anywhere? Not as far as I know and other than that BtB had magical abilities as well so it most probably was him and not the children.

Yeah you got me on that one, i did declared it as if it was a fact, but now you mentioned it, thinking better...

IT IS MENTIONED somewhere that the CotF (MAY) had helped out. But, as you may know, most of this storys about the Dawn Age are kinda mythic, we can't distinct the facts from the tales, so the answer would be NO we don't KNOW (for sure) that they helped out building the wall, we just know that they MAY had helped.

 I can't remember where it was said tough, maybe it was  one of Old Nan tales (wich would be a less trustable source) or I read it in the WOIAF. I'm gonna search it later to be sure then i'll post here.

For now the only quote i was able find is on the wikia of GOT:

" The Children of the Forest allied with the First Men to drive back the White Walkers in the War for the Dawn eight thousand years ago. After the defeat of the Others, the Children, much-reduced in number, are said to have helped Bran the Builder raise the Wall with their powerful magics to prevent the White Walkers' return "

So at least we now that at some point someone tought the children did helped out, and we can't risk out that possibility yet...

Besides the black gate there is also the Horn of Winter, wich (IF it exist) I think  would be more the children's doing than the first man or Brandon the builder or the others. So there are a lot of hints of magic being used in the protection or unprotection of the wall, and the children seems to me the most magical inhabitants of westros at the time the wall was builded.

 

But there is another huge gap in my answer sketch theory: Why the heck would the children put a non-melting spell if the ones they were trying to make a barrier for was the others, not the wildlings, and due to their Ice nature I doubt the Others would try to melt it.

[Lord Asher Forrester]

3 hours ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

Haha, no.

Melting ice requires a lot of energy, and even in summer you're not getting much help from the weather. The ice is literally a permafrost structure, it's cooled well below freezing temperatures in winter, and it's too large for the core to even heat up to the freezing treshold in summer. Which means that, after the first few metres of melting, hot water poured on the ice would freeze in contact with the much colder wall.

 

Getting the required energy to melt a hole in the wall would require a huge bonfire. One large enough for the smoke to be visible from many, many kilometres around. The Night's Watch would notice, and sen men out to put the fire out and cut down those who made it. Since bonfires need to be maintained, you'd need men to stay around it, and the prospect of fighting the Night's Watch with your back to the Wall makes it hard to find volunteers. Heck, the wood cutting operation alone would probably attract the Watch before a fire could even be lit.

If a large bonfire was lit next to the Wall, water runoff would probably put a damper on things, and there's always the risk of large ice sheets melting off far above, and falling into the fire (and those standing around it). Ice behaves like a fluid, after all, and if you soften it enough it will break, and then gravity would ruin your day. A hole melted into the wall would also be more likely to collapse than to create a useable tunnel.

All in all, it's easier to dig through the wall than to melt your way through it.

I think ot would be easier to dig a way under the wall, there was the caveways of Gendel and Gorne and the climbing too, why try to go trough it? It would be madness, it would be too slow, and if a Patrol shows by or pour water on the tunnel exit's they would be trapped.