Attitude Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 1 hour ago, bb1180 said: I don't want this going off the main topic, but the main issue I have with it is that we clearly have a supernatural aspect to this story, including a main character who has just been resurrected. Its strongly suggestive of a higher power at play. There's an apparent discrepancy there, and IMO, its one that needs some kind of logical explanation if there actually isn't one. Yes, there is a supernatural aspect in the story: Magic. Magic revived Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Snow Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I believe GRRM even said that the power was inside Mel and not R'hllor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 12 minutes ago, Attitude said: Yes, there is a supernatural aspect in the story: Magic. Magic revived Jon. And in the world that the author has created, which emphasizes the humanity in his characters and tries to avoid the idea that anyone is 'special', I think simply saying 'because magic' is a bit weak. I'm not saying it can't be magic or some property of those like Melisandre, but I think it deserves, if not demands, a bit more explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 12 minutes ago, Attitude said: Yes, there is a supernatural aspect in the story: Magic. Magic revived Jon. And in the world that the author has created, which emphasizes the humanity in his characters and tries to avoid the idea that anyone is 'special', I think simply saying 'because magic' is a bit weak. I'm not saying it can't be magic or some property of those like Melisandre, but I think it deserves, if not demands, a bit more explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, bb1180 said: And in the world that the author has created, which emphasizes the humanity in his characters and tries to avoid the idea that anyone is 'special', I think simply saying 'because magic' is a bit weak. I'm not saying it can't be magic or some property of those like Melisandre, but I think it deserves, if not demands, a bit more explanation. Well, I don't want to be a smart ass, but that's up to GRRM. Your opinion will not change anything about that. Calling it magic or a 'god' who did it, doesn't change anything for me personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Only death can pay for life, so I think Mel's magic came from her Shireen sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadSam Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I was fine with Jon's attitude. I thought it was played out great, and pretty much how I expected it to go. As for the nothing in the afterlife, that was fine by me too. Doesn't need an explanation. How are they meant to explain why there's nothing? That's just how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visenya the Dragon Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Jon walking away from NW caught me off guard. It was a good ending. The wildlings will most likely join him. Mel follows. She seen it in her fires. I believe her vision of Jon at Winterfell. I want the giant to tear Ramsay in half. I hope it happens. Off topic question. Does Jon need to eat and drink food now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visenya the Dragon Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Jon walking away from NW caught me off guard. It was a good ending. The wildlings will most likely join him. Mel follows. She seen it in her fires. I believe her vision of Jon at Winterfell. I want the giant to tear Ramsay in half. I hope it happens. Off topic question. Does Jon need to eat and drink food now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 45 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: Only death can pay for life, so I think Mel's magic came from her Shireen sacrifice. That's just an old wives' tale. We have plenty of counterexamples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W1NT3RF3LL Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think it is just how he would be. Think of it this way, Ned told him on several occasions how honorable it was to be part of the nights watch and what their duty means to the realm so and so forth and to see first hand what the watch has actually become is the opposite of what it actually was presented to him. The Nights Watch at this point in the story is filled with nothing but criminals and unsuitable warriors that don't have the numbers nor the skill to defend any of the issues that they will be facing. They are completely disorganized and not only did they shank one lord commander they went and shanked two under his time (Him being one of them) of being there. Not only is he probably disgusted, but he also realizes that not only does he have whites to worry about on one side of the wall, but he has a maniac south of him. This is a very trying time for him, he has absolutely no one to trust and he now has more important things to consider. Plus, he just came back from death. There is a lot to swallow at this juncture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W1NT3RF3LL Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think it is just how he would be. Think of it this way, Ned told him on several occasions how honorable it was to be part of the nights watch and what their duty means to the realm so and so forth and to see first hand what the watch has actually become is the opposite of what it actually was presented to him. The Nights Watch at this point in the story is filled with nothing but criminals and unsuitable warriors that don't have the numbers nor the skill to defend any of the issues that they will be facing. They are completely disorganized and not only did they shank one lord commander they went and shanked two under his time (Him being one of them) of being there. Not only is he probably disgusted, but he also realizes that not only does he have whites to worry about on one side of the wall, but he has a maniac south of him. This is a very trying time for him, he has absolutely no one to trust and he now has more important things to consider. Plus, he just came back from death. There is a lot to swallow at this juncture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Walter of AShwood Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 45 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: Only death can pay for life, so I think Mel's magic came from her Shireen sacrifice. Hmm, as far as I can remember, only Mirri Maz Duur and Jaquen H'ghar say this. Jaquen is a faceless man, who believes in the many faced god, and is a mercinary. Mirri is a blood mage. Mel is neither, what if there are more sorts of magic in the world then just blood magic and/or the powers of the faceless men? Also, the resurrection of Beric Dondarion doesn't seem to require a sacrifice at all. it appears that R'hllor does not follow the blood magic rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 56 minutes ago, Attitude said: Well, I don't want to be a smart ass, but that's up to GRRM. Your opinion will not change anything about that. Calling it magic or a 'god' who did it, doesn't change anything for me personally. Of course not. He's free to explain it any way he wants or not at all. Whether his explanation is one that's satisfying is something each individual reader will have to decide for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 25 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said: Hmm, as far as I can remember, only Mirri Maz Duur and Jaquen H'ghar say this. Jaquen is a faceless man, who believes in the many faced god, and is a mercinary. Mirri is a blood mage. Mel is neither, what if there are more sorts of magic in the world then just blood magic and/or the powers of the faceless men? Also, the resurrection of Beric Dondarion doesn't seem to require a sacrifice at all. it appears that R'hllor does not follow the blood magic rules. Good points, I just got the idea from Alt Shift Xs youtube page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 27 minutes ago, Visenya the Dragon said: Off topic question. Does Jon need to eat and drink food now? Its hard to know for an absolute certainty, but he appears to be 'alive' in a true sense, so to answer the question, I think that he likely does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Snow Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 35 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said: Hmm, as far as I can remember, only Mirri Maz Duur and Jaquen H'ghar say this.Jaquen is a faceless man, who believes in the many faced god, and is a mercinary. Mirri is a blood mage. Mel is neither, what if there are more sorts of magic in the world then just blood magic and/or the powers of the faceless men? Also, the resurrection of Beric Dondarion doesn't seem to require a sacrifice at all. it appears that R'hllor does not follow the blood magic rules. IIRC in Jaqen's case, he said it to Arya when she saved him and the two other prisoners from the fire. So the context was that you had 3 lives set to die and you stole those deaths from the god and now you must repay him with 3 other deaths. It wasn't bringing people back from death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourneblade Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, W1NT3RF3LL said: I think it is just how he would be. Think of it this way, Ned told him on several occasions how honorable it was to be part of the nights watch and what their duty means to the realm so and so forth and to see first hand what the watch has actually become is the opposite of what it actually was presented to him. The Nights Watch at this point in the story is filled with nothing but criminals and unsuitable warriors that don't have the numbers nor the skill to defend any of the issues that they will be facing. They are completely disorganized and not only did they shank one lord commander they went and shanked two under his time (Him being one of them) of being there. Not only is he probably disgusted, but he also realizes that not only does he have whites to worry about on one side of the wall, but he has a maniac south of him. This is a very trying time for him, he has absolutely no one to trust and he now has more important things to consider. Plus, he just came back from death. There is a lot to swallow at this juncture. It is more than a man his age should have to deal with. I do not think Jon will abandon the Night's Watch to its own fate, but I understand he had to break with them. Now he has to take the time to process everything that has happened and decide on a course of action, which will probably be set in front of him with Sansa Showing up next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourneblade Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, W1NT3RF3LL said: I think it is just how he would be. Think of it this way, Ned told him on several occasions how honorable it was to be part of the nights watch and what their duty means to the realm so and so forth and to see first hand what the watch has actually become is the opposite of what it actually was presented to him. The Nights Watch at this point in the story is filled with nothing but criminals and unsuitable warriors that don't have the numbers nor the skill to defend any of the issues that they will be facing. They are completely disorganized and not only did they shank one lord commander they went and shanked two under his time (Him being one of them) of being there. Not only is he probably disgusted, but he also realizes that not only does he have whites to worry about on one side of the wall, but he has a maniac south of him. This is a very trying time for him, he has absolutely no one to trust and he now has more important things to consider. Plus, he just came back from death. There is a lot to swallow at this juncture. It is more than a man his age should have to deal with. I do not think Jon will abandon the Night's Watch to its own fate, but I understand he had to break with them. Now he has to take the time to process everything that has happened and decide on a course of action, which will probably be set in front of him with Sansa Showing up next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantares83 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Will book Jon really kill a boy? i dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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