(Spoilers) So - which events from the show will happen in the books and in what way?

[Scorpion92]

1) Show Asha (Yara, whatever) is taking over Victarion's storyline of going to Mereen and moving Dany's ass to Westeros. So in my opinion that is a little spoiler for books: I think Asha will be one of the captains of Manderly ships (we know Lord Manderly mentioned lack of experienced sailors) that sails to Dragonstone with Stannis to take it back from Iron Throne (who defeated Boltons and gained northern support), and then launch second siege of the capital. This is where Dany arrives and slays the lie of "a blue eyed king with burning sword who cast no shadow". After Dany defeats Stannis on Dragonstone and the fact that Iron Fleet that left with Victarion is back with Mother of Dragons, Asha will bend the knee to Dany. I think the ultimate tragedy with Greyjoys in general is that Theon will kill Asha as part of the Battle of the Dawn between Jon and Dany, therefore finally proving his Stark-ness, but at terrible and horrible cost - killing the only blood relative that he loved in the name of his "family". The whole Reek ordeal taught him well about where his loyalties should lie, but it does not mean it will be easy.

2) Book Ser Davos will first hand experience "dead things in the water" in Skaagos and escape with Rickon and Shaggydog while witnessing the massacre of Skagosi population (including Osha). Kinda like that boat scene with show Jon in Hardhome, where he leaves on a boat witnessing the massacre. Both of these should give him some story subtext to have a link with Jon (the threat of White Walkers and connection to his sibling). Show Davos clearly is becoming Jon's right hand man, and I do not think Book Davos will be different. It is all the matter of how. I think after Stannis defeats Boltons and installs Rickon as his Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North with Lord Manderly as Regent, the Mannis will send Davos north to the Wall to retrieve his family, not aware of the events at the Wall. He simply does not have time to do it himself, because the weather is turning to shit, and he needs to use Manderly fleet and northern forces to take Iron Throne quick as possible, especially considering how weak the institution is with the events in the capital and South in general.

3) I guess Dany's fireproofness will come back in the story judging from the show. I mean, that is the only way Dothraki will bend to her rule - witnessing something magical like that. "Fire for death" - it kinda makes sense. Killing other khals in one swoop and getting out of fire unscathed will certainly do the trick with these nomadic tribes. What left for debate is whether it will be Drogon setting the temple on fire or Dany herself. I prefer show version, to be honest, because she does not need a dragon to show her true strength, but to each their own.

4) Show Jon is definitely taking over Book Stannis role of taking down Boltons. However, I still think Book Jon will march south with wildlings. For what reason is a big speculation, but I believe revived Book Jon will be a little different from revived Show Jon - more ruthless and cold. Book Jon knows that winter is coming for all of mankind, so he needs the North up at the Wall to guard nineteen castles, but he cannot do it without control of Winterfell. And from part 2 as I described, Rickon is left under Manderly regency, and I do not expect northern nobility with Lord Manderly at helm giving away the regency of young Stark lord to his bastard brother who marches south with an army of wildlings, a priest of hated foreign religion and a southern knight who has some bond with Rickon from their Skagos trip.

5) Well, Book Sansa and Show Sansa are definitely two different storylines, but one thing unites them - Littlefinger. Baelish has Sansa at his side, and he definitely wants to install her as Lady of Winterfell and gain the North through her. The problem is that Rickon Stark is new Lord of Winterfell with majority of northern nobility supporting him under rule of King Stannis who is an enemy to unstable Iron Throne and has a big chance taking the throne after gaining northern support. I think Littlefinger will have a hand in assassinating young Rickon, especially since he is one of the richest guys in Westeros and can afford any price to any assassin while northern nobility fights Jon Snow and wildling army. But I do not believe that Vale army will go to the North and participate in the events more directly. I think Sansa will slay the giant in a snow castle (which I think is Gates of the Moon), but not directly. She will defeat him at his own game. Nestor Royce and Myranda are conspiring, and if Nestor finds the evidence of Baelish murdering Lady Arryn, he will have all the authority and backing of Vale lords to execute Littlefinger. All Nestor needs is some evidence, which will be provided by Sansa who will try to avenge Rickon's death (she will find out or figure it out on her own).

[Lord_Ravenstone]

30 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

TWOW is likely going to be the longest book of the series.  I think its very likely the Others will reach the walls of Winterfell by the end (hopefully with a resolution and not a cliffhanger).  To me, its not outside the realm of possibility the they will have reached the Twins by the end, but I don't think they'll ever get any further south than that.

And I don't put to much stock in visions and prophecies, especially not Melisandre's.  And Dany is definitely not the slayer of lies, IMO.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't take stock into visions in this story 

Every time GRRM brings visions and prophecies up, it's basically him giving us a look at his outline 

And well if you don't believe Dany is a slayer of lies or anything any of the visions said them you're pretty much saying that the HOTU was a waste of time 

[thehandwipes]

14 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I'm not sure why you wouldn't take stock into visions in this story 

Every time GRRM brings visions and prophecies up, it's basically him giving us a look at his outline 

And well if you don't believe Dany is a slayer of lies or anything any of the visions said them you're pretty much saying that the HOTU was a waste of time 

I side with Marwyn, reading too much into prophecy will only get you in trouble.  And I don't want a peek at GRRM's outline, that would make the story less fun.  And I don't discount that visions or prophecy could be true; whether self-fulfilling, or whether the characters are playing roles in a fate which is beyond their control, is still very much in the air.  I discount the idea that GRRM is going to spoil his own story with prophecy.  Either one-in-fifty prophecies will come true, or they will come together in ways few will expect, or they will all be bullshit.

As long as Dany believes the visions she received at the HOTU and continues to make decisions based on those beliefs, they weren't a waste of time. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, thehandwipes said:

I side with Marwyn, reading too much into prophecy will only get you in trouble.  And I don't want a peek at GRRM's outline, that would make the story less fun.  And I don't discount that visions or prophecy could be true; whether self-fulfilling, or whether the characters are playing roles in a fate which is beyond their control, is still very much in the air.  I discount the idea that GRRM is going to spoil his own story with prophecy.  Either one-in-fifty prophecies will come true, or they will come together in ways few will expect, or they will all be bullshit.

As long as Dany believes the visions she received at the HOTU and continues to make decisions based on those beliefs, they weren't a waste of time. 

True but you know most of the visions we've seen so far have come true

I mean the Ghost of High Heart and Bran for instance  had 100 % accuracy rate 

[Ser Quork]

7 hours ago, Scorpion92 said:

1) Show Asha (Yara, whatever) is taking over Victarion's storyline of going to Mereen and moving Dany's ass to Westeros. So in my opinion that is a little spoiler for books: I think Asha will be one of the captains of Manderly ships (we know Lord Manderly mentioned lack of experienced sailors) that sails to Dragonstone with Stannis to take it back from Iron Throne (who defeated Boltons and gained northern support), and then launch second siege of the capital. This is where Dany arrives and slays the lie of "a blue eyed king with burning sword who cast no shadow". After Dany defeats Stannis on Dragonstone and the fact that Iron Fleet that left with Victarion is back with Mother of Dragons, Asha will bend the knee to Dany. I think the ultimate tragedy with Greyjoys in general is that Theon will kill Asha as part of the Battle of the Dawn between Jon and Dany, therefore finally proving his Stark-ness, but at terrible and horrible cost - killing the only blood relative that he loved in the name of his "family". The whole Reek ordeal taught him well about where his loyalties should lie, but it does not mean it will be easy.

2) Book Ser Davos will first hand experience "dead things in the water" in Skaagos and escape with Rickon and Shaggydog while witnessing the massacre of Skagosi population (including Osha). Kinda like that boat scene with show Jon in Hardhome, where he leaves on a boat witnessing the massacre. Both of these should give him some story subtext to have a link with Jon (the threat of White Walkers and connection to his sibling). Show Davos clearly is becoming Jon's right hand man, and I do not think Book Davos will be different. It is all the matter of how. I think after Stannis defeats Boltons and installs Rickon as his Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North with Lord Manderly as Regent, the Mannis will send Davos north to the Wall to retrieve his family, not aware of the events at the Wall. He simply does not have time to do it himself, because the weather is turning to shit, and he needs to use Manderly fleet and northern forces to take Iron Throne quick as possible, especially considering how weak the institution is with the events in the capital and South in general.

3) I guess Dany's fireproofness will come back in the story judging from the show. I mean, that is the only way Dothraki will bend to her rule - witnessing something magical like that. "Fire for death" - it kinda makes sense. Killing other khals in one swoop and getting out of fire unscathed will certainly do the trick with these nomadic tribes. What left for debate is whether it will be Drogon setting the temple on fire or Dany herself. I prefer show version, to be honest, because she does not need a dragon to show her true strength, but to each their own.

4) Show Jon is definitely taking over Book Stannis role of taking down Boltons. However, I still think Book Jon will march south with wildlings. For what reason is a big speculation, but I believe revived Book Jon will be a little different from revived Show Jon - more ruthless and cold. Book Jon knows that winter is coming for all of mankind, so he needs the North up at the Wall to guard nineteen castles, but he cannot do it without control of Winterfell. And from part 2 as I described, Rickon is left under Manderly regency, and I do not expect northern nobility with Lord Manderly at helm giving away the regency of young Stark lord to his bastard brother who marches south with an army of wildlings, a priest of hated foreign religion and a southern knight who has some bond with Rickon from their Skagos trip.

5) Well, Book Sansa and Show Sansa are definitely two different storylines, but one thing unites them - Littlefinger. Baelish has Sansa at his side, and he definitely wants to install her as Lady of Winterfell and gain the North through her. The problem is that Rickon Stark is new Lord of Winterfell with majority of northern nobility supporting him under rule of King Stannis who is an enemy to unstable Iron Throne and has a big chance taking the throne after gaining northern support. I think Littlefinger will have a hand in assassinating young Rickon, especially since he is one of the richest guys in Westeros and can afford any price to any assassin while northern nobility fights Jon Snow and wildling army. But I do not believe that Vale army will go to the North and participate in the events more directly. I think Sansa will slay the giant in a snow castle (which I think is Gates of the Moon), but not directly. She will defeat him at his own game. Nestor Royce and Myranda are conspiring, and if Nestor finds the evidence of Baelish murdering Lady Arryn, he will have all the authority and backing of Vale lords to execute Littlefinger. All Nestor needs is some evidence, which will be provided by Sansa who will try to avenge Rickon's death (she will find out or figure it out on her own).

I enjoyed all of that, except 3.

GRRM says the unburnt thing was a one-time miracle -- I doubt we'll see it again.  We have, however, seen her burnt occasionally in the books, latest being the burns she was recovering from in her last chapter in ADWD.

She is found with Drogon at the end of ADWD and the power dynamic is distinctly different from the show.  Drogon is her mount now, together they are the stallion that mounts the world.  There may be twists and turns along the way (I dare say) but I think Drogon being her mount is how she becomes the Khal of Khals.  (And if all the khals are killed, how can one have such a title?)

 

[JonSnowed]

On 5/16/2016 at 5:44 PM, Lord_Ravenstone said:

That doesn't seem right.

Aegon will take out the Lannisters

Stannis will take out the Boltons

it won't be Dany and Jon 

 

Sorry but I don't see Aegon taking out the Lannisters with two books remaining, it may be that his conflicts reduces Kings Landing and the Iron throne to pretty much rubble but Jamie won't be there and Tyrion will be with Dany. So that only leaves Cersei, besides the show would not have skipped Aegon if he was so important.

 

As for Stannis beating the Boltons, maybe but even before the show I was not convinced he would beat the Boltons. I would not rule out he wins but I think he more likely loses and that is why Sansa brings the vale army north (this is happening in both formats, I am convinced).   

 

These crazy theories that Jon is taking over Stannis arc makes no sense, for example if Stannis wins who exactly will be the POV for this? It's not happening guys, the pink letter is true.

[Scorpion92]

8 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

 

Sorry but I don't see Aegon taking out the Lannisters with two books remaining, it may be that his conflicts reduces Kings Landing and the Iron throne to pretty much rubble but Jamie won't be there and Tyrion will be with Dany. So that only leaves Cersei, besides the show would not have skipped Aegon if he was so important.

 

As for Stannis beating the Boltons, maybe but even before the show I was not convinced he would beat the Boltons. I would not rule out he wins but I think he more likely loses and that is why Sansa brings the vale army north (this is happening in both formats, I am convinced).   

 

These crazy theories that Jon is taking over Stannis arc makes no sense, for example if Stannis wins who exactly will be the POV for this? It's not happening guys, the pink letter is true.

I would recommend you to read Cantuse's Manifesto essay series, he brilliantly lays out Stannis' northern campaign backed up by textual evidence, take a look if you have time.

https://cantuse.wordpress.com

 

[Stannis is the man....nis]

9 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

 

Sorry but I don't see Aegon taking out the Lannisters with two books remaining, it may be that his conflicts reduces Kings Landing and the Iron throne to pretty much rubble but Jamie won't be there and Tyrion will be with Dany. So that only leaves Cersei, besides the show would not have skipped Aegon if he was so important.

 

As for Stannis beating the Boltons, maybe but even before the show I was not convinced he would beat the Boltons. I would not rule out he wins but I think he more likely loses and that is why Sansa brings the vale army north (this is happening in both formats, I am convinced).   

 

These crazy theories that Jon is taking over Stannis arc makes no sense, for example if Stannis wins who exactly will be the POV for this? It's not happening guys, the pink letter is true.

*cough* Theon or Asha *cough* Also D&D said Stannis burning Shireen is something George told them so Stannis has to win in order to be reunited with them

[thehandwipes]

17 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

True but you know most of the visions we've seen so far have come true

I mean the Ghost of High Heart and Bran for instance  had 100 % accuracy rate 

The Ghost of High Heart, certainly.  I'm 100% convinced that Sansa will kill LF based entirely on her prophecy.  I'm also convinced about 83.75394% of the time that Tyrion will murder Cersei at a Lannister Family Reunion in Casterly Rock in ADOS based on Jaime's dream and Cersei's valonqar prophecy.  And Patchface clearly knows everything that has ever happened or will ever happen, somehow. 

But I find theories based on prophecy to be convoluted, and frankly, boring.  Mostly.

There's also the fact that GRRM has written a lot of stories in the past (none of which I have read) that involve false prophecies being used to manipulate.

I'm not closed off to the idea that Fate and Destiny are actively guiding the story.  Take Dany, for instance.  So much of her story revolves around consent and slavery, and I think this is deliberate and will continue to factor into her story till the end.  Once her dragons were born it seems her Fate was bound to theirs; when she embraces her "dragon nature" it feels natural and healthy and vigorating (ASOS), when she tries to control her "dragon-ness" (ADWD) she becomes riddled with self-doubt.  But does she feel better because she's no longer struggling to act in opposition to her Fate, or is she being manipulated into believing that this is the person she was born to be.  Its still up in the air for me.

[thehandwipes]

10 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

 

Sorry but I don't see Aegon taking out the Lannisters with two books remaining, it may be that his conflicts reduces Kings Landing and the Iron throne to pretty much rubble but Jamie won't be there and Tyrion will be with Dany. So that only leaves Cersei, besides the show would not have skipped Aegon if he was so important.

 

As for Stannis beating the Boltons, maybe but even before the show I was not convinced he would beat the Boltons. I would not rule out he wins but I think he more likely loses and that is why Sansa brings the vale army north (this is happening in both formats, I am convinced).   

 

These crazy theories that Jon is taking over Stannis arc makes no sense, for example if Stannis wins who exactly will be the POV for this? It's not happening guys, the pink letter is true.

I think its almost certain Aegon will have defeated the Lannisters and will be ruling in KL by the end of TWOW if not sooner.  He'll be ruling by the time Dany lands for the second Dance of Dragons.

The POV's are one of the main reasons I think Stannis has to win the Battle of Ice.  We have several major plotlines converging on Winterfell in TWOW and will need POV's.  Asha and Theon are the only POV's that will be near WF at the start of the book and its pretty impossible for me to imagine Asha or Theon chapters taking place in Winterfell under the Boltons.

[JonSnowed]

OK so if Aegon is on the Iron Throne at the end of Winds what do you believe Dany's arc will be in the final book?  I also have a hard time belieiving the show would have dropped the character if that was really the case.

[kg1982]

Agreed.  FAegon is a big red herring in the book.  If FAegon was actually important, then they would have added him to the TV shows despite the confusion.  D&D must know that FAegon isn't that important to the end game and removed the character to avoid confusion with Jon's story.

As for the storylines themselves, I like the TV show confirming theories that book readers have and also repudiating others.

[Farerb]

4 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

OK so if Aegon is on the Iron Throne at the end of Winds what do you believe Dany's arc will be in the final book?  I also have a hard time belieiving the show would have dropped the character if that was really the case.

My speculations: Dany will end her TWOW arc with confronting Illyrio after Tyrion tells her everything. She'll declare war on Aegon.

ADOS - she'll burn Dorne, then King's Landing setting off the wildfire (meanwile Tyrion will confront his siblings at CR). After the burning of King's Landing, she'll confront Euron and then off to fight the Others.

In my opinion, on the show Tommen will banish Cersei to CR with the influence of the HS on him and Margaery, after that he's the show version of Aegon and Margaery is the show version of Arianne.

[Dragon in the North]

5 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

OK so if Aegon is on the Iron Throne at the end of Winds what do you believe Dany's arc will be in the final book?  I also have a hard time belieiving the show would have dropped the character if that was really the case.

I could see them doing it. I don't like the idea of Martin bringing in a character at the last minute to be Dany's main antagonist when she reaches Westeros. I much prefer to see a fight between her and the Lannisters, assuming it comes to that.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On May 18, 2016 at 3:30 AM, JonSnowed said:

 

Sorry but I don't see Aegon taking out the Lannisters with two books remaining, it may be that his conflicts reduces Kings Landing and the Iron throne to pretty much rubble but Jamie won't be there and Tyrion will be with Dany. So that only leaves Cersei, besides the show would not have skipped Aegon if he was so important.

 

As for Stannis beating the Boltons, maybe but even before the show I was not convinced he would beat the Boltons. I would not rule out he wins but I think he more likely loses and that is why Sansa brings the vale army north (this is happening in both formats, I am convinced).   

 

These crazy theories that Jon is taking over Stannis arc makes no sense, for example if Stannis wins who exactly will be the POV for this? It's not happening guys, the pink letter is true.

Aegon takes out the Lannister fake-claimants on the Iron Throne so Tommen and Myrcella and Cersei flees to Casterly Rock.

Daenerys lands in Westeros at the end of the sixth book and the first half of ADOS will be her battling Aegon while Tyrion tries to take Casterly Rock from Cersei, potentially in dragon-back.

And the show has already shown that it has no problems heavily diverging and the show producers have gone on record saying that season 6 won't spoil the books so......yeah, it's going to be colossally different.

I fully believe that Sansa I bringing the Vale army north but not to battle the Boltons. That conflict will be long over by the time she gets there.

We have plenty of PoVS present if Stannis wins. Asha and Theon and potentially Davos if he comes to Winterfell in time and Bran from a raven POV/Weirwood POV.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

4 hours ago, kg1982 said:

Agreed.  FAegon is a big red herring in the book.  If FAegon was actually important, then they would have added him to the TV shows despite the confusion.  D&D must know that FAegon isn't that important to the end game and removed the character to avoid confusion with Jon's story.

As for the storylines themselves, I like the TV show confirming theories that book readers have and also repudiating others.

But the show isn't really doing that. 

Take the fire immunity for instance. 

Daenerys is  immune to fire on the show but not in the books according to GRRM.

Aegon is Act II and the show producers want to hurry and end this so they cut him and they're going to clumsily glue whatever is left together. It's not like they have no trouble creating plot holes to streamline the story. See: Sansa's plotline in season 5.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

20 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

I could see them doing it. I don't like the idea of Martin bringing in a character at the last minute to be Dany's main antagonist when she reaches Westeros. I much prefer to see a fight between her and the Lannisters, assuming it comes to that.

Aegon won't be her main antagonist. Varys is. Aegon is merely Varys' figurehead and Varys is the man that engineered the Targaryen's downfall.

Besides the only person left on the Lannister side that had a connection with Dany and her family's downfall is Jaime who may or may not die next book before she even lands.

[kg1982]

24 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

But the show isn't really doing that. 

Take the fire immunity for instance. 

Daenerys is  immune to fire on the show but not in the books according to GRRM.

Aegon is Act II and the show producers want to hurry and end this so they cut him and they're going to clumsily glue whatever is left together. It's not like they have no trouble creating plot holes to streamline the story. See: Sansa's plotline in season 5.

And Faegon is as boring as watching paint dry so I am glad he got cut.  

And I liked the Jon - Sansa reunion.  

[Dragon in the North]

18 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Aegon won't be her main antagonist. Varys is. Aegon is merely Varys' figurehead and Varys is the man that engineered the Targaryen's downfall.

Besides the only person left on the Lannister side that had a connection with Dany and her family's downfall is Jaime who may or may not die next book before she even lands.

But Varys isn't in control of the Golden Company. Varys isn't going to make an alliance with Dorne and gain control of their armies. When Danerys lands in Westeros, Varys isn't going to be the head of the opposing army. Aegon is. Aegon is going to be a bigger obstacle to Dany, not Varys.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

3 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

But Varys isn't in control of the Golden Company. Varys isn't going to make an alliance with Dorne and gain control of their armies. When Danerys lands in Westeros, Varys isn't going to be the head of the opposing army. Aegon is. Aegon is going to be a bigger obstacle to Dany, not Varys.

Varys is the man behind Aegon. 

By killing Aegon, Daenerys is beating Varys and destroying his one goal that he's been working on for decades.

Also it's a continuation of how  Dany's  awful Westerosi rep when she kills a good king that people believe to be her nephew.