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Forlong the Fat

Did Sansa Tell Jon About Sexual Assault?

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Two things occur to me. First, it is quite plausible that she would not, because it's not the sort of thing you would want to discuss with your brother, whom you haven't seen in years, or perhaps with anyone. Second, Jon's reticence to attack Ramsey seems strange if he knows how horribly Sansa was treated. I lean toward "no," and I wonder if this information will drive the plot in future. 

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7 hours ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Two things occur to me. First, it is quite plausible that she would not, because it's not the sort of thing you would want to discuss with your brother, whom you haven't seen in years, or perhaps with anyone. Second, Jon's reticence to attack Ramsey seems strange if he knows how horribly Sansa was treated. I lean toward "no," and I wonder if this information will drive the plot in future. 

I don't think she did. It's not exactly a thing one would open with, and the vibe in the room would have certainly been different. 

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That's very hard to say, given the information we have available to us,  but I'm leaning towards 'no' as well,  for the same reasons.  I also tend to think that this...and many other things that each have been through...will be revisited as the season progresses. 

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Jon knows that she was married to Ramsay, since he understands the 'bride' reference in the later letter, and self-evidently he knows that she fled Winterfell to Castle Black.  I would imagine he knows the basics; I don't imagine she went into graphic description.

The tone of their conversation is certainly on the light side, but by implication Sansa has also been told that Jon was murdered, came back from the dead, and that there's a horde of ice zombies poised to kill them all.

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Would Jon have been smiling and having a light hearted chat about Old Nan's pies if he knew she'd been raped and abused.

Combined with what appears to be LF's lack of knowledge of Ramsey, I'm getting the impression that nobody is fully aware of what he is like.

I'm not sure how much Sansa knows about the vows of the Nights Watch. He could just have said to her that he'd been released from his vows. As he's still at Castle Black and the lord Commander is happy to have him around then why would she question that? The more I think about it, the more I think that both of them have glossed over a lot of facts. She's too calm to know about his murder and the Whitewalkers. He's not angry enough with Ramsey to know about what Ramsey did to her.

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2 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Jon knows that she was married to Ramsay, since he understands the 'bride' reference in the later letter, and self-evidently he knows that she fled Winterfell to Castle Black.  I would imagine he knows the basics; I don't imagine she went into graphic description.

Besides, he threatens of his men raping Sansa in the letter - the part Jon sees and doesn't want to show her. I'd also say that by he probably has the idea what went down there, though without the details like 'Reek, watch', or graphic brutality, obviously. For now they're just happy they reunited and focus on that, not the horrible things they went through.

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Jon knows with the wedding comes the bedding. Jon knows she fled the marriage when she had the chance.

It's not hard to put two and two together. If she hasn't told him, he has to at least have an idea of what happened. 

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Kind of hard to move discussion from Old Naan's soups & how they behaved as kids, to "by the way I was raped". 

It's probably the same reason why Jon didn't mention "Oh by the way the guys around here murdered me". 

I would assume those conversations are going to happen at a later date. I can see a scenario or scenes where Ramsey brags to Jon about what he did to Sansa, and where Davos informs Sansa of what he saw happen to Jon. 

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7 hours ago, TickTak7 said:

Kind of hard to move discussion from Old Naan's soups & how they behaved as kids, to "by the way I was raped". 

It's probably the same reason why Jon didn't mention "Oh by the way the guys around here murdered me". 

I would assume those conversations are going to happen at a later date. I can see a scenario or scenes where Ramsey brags to Jon about what he did to Sansa, and where Davos informs Sansa of what he saw happen to Jon. 

Actually, these scenes have already happened, just off-screen.

That's why Jon says he can't stay at Castle Black, "not after what happened". If Sansa didn't know she would ask what happened exactly.

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28 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Actually, these scenes have already happened, just off-screen.

That's why Jon says he can't stay at Castle Black, "not after what happened". If Sansa didn't know she would ask what happened exactly.

It depends on how much detail went into it and exactly what each told the other.  He may have only told her that some members of the Nights' Watch enacted a mutiny against him and tried to kill him...but perhaps not that they actually succeeded.  Likewise,  Sansa may have glossed over the worst of what she's suffered,  though if he didn't realize it already,   Jon should be starting to figure it out after that letter arrived. 

Regardless,  we don't know for a certainty,  but by omitting it from the on-screen discussion,  it really feels like this is all going to be addressed as the season rolls along.  

 

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15 hours ago, Mandzipop said:

Combined with what appears to be LF's lack of knowledge of Ramsey, I'm getting the impression that nobody is fully aware of what he is like.

Why do you assume LF lacks any knowledge about the nature of Ramsey?  He knows exactly who he sold Sansa to, he just doesn't care. Part of what makes LF one of the worst people in the entire story - book or show wise.  He is certainly a charmer, which is why people fall for his shit, but the guy is an unmitigated asshole in the highest degree.  I personally find him more foul than Ramsey, and that is saying a lot. 

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10 minutes ago, LyrnaSnowBunnyAvenger said:

Why do you assume LF lacks any knowledge about the nature of Ramsey?  He knows exactly who he sold Sansa to, he just doesn't care. Part of what makes LF one of the worst people in the entire story - book or show wise.  He is certainly a charmer, which is why people fall for his shit, but the guy is an unmitigated asshole in the highest degree.  I personally find him more foul than Ramsey, and that is saying a lot. 

I'm not assuming anything. I'm going by this interview with Aiden Gillen

Entertainment Weekly: So what excites you most about season 6?
Aidan Gillen: For me, this time out, there’s a level of atonement in relation to Sansa and my misjudgment of Ramsay Bolton. A lot of what I’m up to is atonement and really trying to align myself the right people – though, I guess, I’m always doing that! I left Sansa married to a psychopath. It’s probably the one time we’ve seen Littlefinger slip up. He really didn’t know about him. He should have.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/11/game-thrones-littlefinger

Not that I always believe the actors but at this moment in time I'm willing to believe Aiden until proven wrong. :D

(which will be within the next 6 weeks :D)

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6 minutes ago, Mandzipop said:

I'm not assuming anything. I'm going by this interview with Aiden Gillen

Entertainment Weekly: So what excites you most about season 6?
Aidan Gillen: For me, this time out, there’s a level of atonement in relation to Sansa and my misjudgment of Ramsay Bolton. A lot of what I’m up to is atonement and really trying to align myself the right people – though, I guess, I’m always doing that! I left Sansa married to a psychopath. It’s probably the one time we’ve seen Littlefinger slip up. He really didn’t know about him. He should have.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/11/game-thrones-littlefinger

Not that I always believe the actors but at this moment in time I'm willing to believe Aiden until proven wrong. :D

(which will be within the next 6 weeks :D)

 Ok, I grant you that and I was not aware that Aidan had said that.  BUT, it is an awful lot like something LittleFinger would say.  I don't trust that shit once ounce and can completely believe he sold Sansa knowing full well what she was going to be dealt with.  I can only hope he gets his due. 

As to the OP - no, I don't think Sansa told Jon.  I think Jon has an idea, but he has no clue how bad it actually was.  Nor do I think Sansa knows Jon was killed by his companions.  She understands that he was betrayed, but she doesn't know to what extent.  

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Basically, this is the conversation:

 

So, how did it go for you?

I was raped

That sucks. I was murdered.

That sucks. Hey... do you remember Old Nan's pies?

 

Which is kind of weird, but it does look like they told each other what roughly what happened to them (Jon might be thinking "Run away sister")

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44 minutes ago, LyrnaSnowBunnyAvenger said:

 Ok, I grant you that and I was not aware that Aidan had said that.  BUT, it is an awful lot like something LittleFinger would say.  I don't trust that shit once ounce and can completely believe he sold Sansa knowing full well what she was going to be dealt with.  I can only hope he gets his due. 

Bryan Cogman also said Littlefinger didn't know.

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3 hours ago, Mandzipop said:

Aidan Gillen: For me, this time out, there’s a level of atonement in relation to Sansa and my misjudgment of Ramsay Bolton. A lot of what I’m up to is atonement and really trying to align myself the right people – though, I guess, I’m always doing that! I left Sansa married to a psychopath. It’s probably the one time we’ve seen Littlefinger slip up. He really didn’t know about him. He should have.

Oh god, no. No LF-atonement. No trying to make LF look sympathetic. No Jorah-ing LF. Please, just no.

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4 hours ago, Mandzipop said:

I'm not assuming anything. I'm going by this interview with Aiden Gillen

Entertainment Weekly: So what excites you most about season 6?
Aidan Gillen: For me, this time out, there’s a level of atonement in relation to Sansa and my misjudgment of Ramsay Bolton. A lot of what I’m up to is atonement and really trying to align myself the right people – though, I guess, I’m always doing that! I left Sansa married to a psychopath. It’s probably the one time we’ve seen Littlefinger slip up. He really didn’t know about him. He should have.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/11/game-thrones-littlefinger

Not that I always believe the actors but at this moment in time I'm willing to believe Aiden until proven wrong. :D

(which will be within the next 6 weeks :D)

If this is true, it's piss poor writing.

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8 hours ago, Ingelheim said:

Actually, these scenes have already happened, just off-screen.

That's why Jon says he can't stay at Castle Black, "not after what happened". If Sansa didn't know she would ask what happened exactly.

 

Nice catch. 

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I don't think Jon knows the extent of what Ramsay did to her. If he did, I think he'd be acting somewhat differently. I don't blame her for not telling him or anyone for that matter. It's something she can't undo and it's also something she'll have to live with for the rest of her life. That being said, I think that there will be a moment where she finally opens up enough to tell him what happened to her. Either that, or Ramsay will tell him. He seems like he'd brag about her virginity to coax Jon into fighting him.

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