Maithanet Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: 55%-45% would be equivalent to Eisenhower over Stevenson in 1952 (or Roosevelt over Wilkie in 1940), which was a landslide by any measure. The issue these days is that that sort of victory wouldn't translate into an equivalent blowout in the electoral college. Not an equivalent blowout, but still a pretty handy drubbing. Obama won the EC 365 to 173 in 2008, and that was with a popular vote win of 6.6%. If he had increased that margin by 3% across the board, he would have also taken Missouri and Montana, for a 379-159 win. Not the kind of blowouts we saw in the 80s, but still a hugely lopsided result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 14 minutes ago, Fez said: However, the fact that Trump can't manage better than a tie with Clinton at this juncture, and that he's still only getting mid-80s percentage support from Republicans after he's clinched tell me that his statements have done serious damage to him. That also speaks to Clinton's weaknesses. Trump would likely not be tied with a better candidate that didn't also have bad unfavorable numbers. I'd be curious to see a Trump v. Obama poll as a hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 4 hours ago, Guess who's back said: I support Trump because of his complete disregard for political correctness. We truly need someone like him, to get west away from the extreme liberal ideologies and obsession with oppression and privileges. Let's be honest here. What you really mean is, "Make America great again, fuck equal rights for anyone not a straight, white, man." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 What it says to me is that ideology is seriously fucked in the US. That a person like Trump - who is odious in extreme to people like Rush Limbaugh - can still get the overwhelming majority of Republicans to vote for him is pretty insane to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingslayah Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Sanders shouldn't drop out since going to the convention is important as a platform for his positions to carry momentum into the future. Plus if Shillary gets indicated they'll have a really hard time not giving Sanders the nomination. The only good thing about Trump is that I get to make fun of the intelligence of his supporters. His whole "too rich to be bought" appeal is fundamentally absurd since he clearly has no principles. Lacking principles is what allows politicians to be bought in the first place, so what is that your gaining with him exactly? If you want a specific example of Trump showing a lack of principles, although he flip flops on pretty much every other issue, just remember how this so called "populist" initially said "wages are too high" while now he's looking to increase the minimum wage. The effect he's had on his brain dead supporters with his low brow bravado is beyond depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 If Sanders goes to the Convention and starts a floor fight, that's him finished. He and his supporters won't get speaking time, and every last one of his positions will get voted down by the majority. If Sanders wants to have influence, he's going to have to act as a team player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protagoras Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I am surprised people havnt mentioned the Libertarian Party Convention and their attempt to come off as a non-wierd, serious party, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d45x4OpMoow Maybe not safe for your health, depending on personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Quote Sanders shouldn't drop out since going to the convention is important as a platform for his positions to carry momentum into the future. Plus if Shillary gets indicated they'll have a really hard time not giving Sanders the nomination. Many things wrong with this. Sexist moniker for Clinton Sanders will go to convention regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders will be able to have a platform for his positions regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders can get the nomination if Clinton gets indicted regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders has done a really good job of killing his momentum into the future by staying in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Kalbear said: Many things wrong with this. Sexist moniker for Clinton Sanders will go to convention regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders will be able to have a platform for his positions regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders can get the nomination if Clinton gets indicted regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders has done a really good job of killing his momentum into the future by staying in I don't see how "Shillary" is a sexist moniker. "Shrillary" might be sexist, since women are often accused of being shrill. But I don't think that being a "shill" is a sexist accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingslayah Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Kalbear said: Many things wrong with this. Sexist moniker for Clinton Sanders will go to convention regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders will be able to have a platform for his positions regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders can get the nomination if Clinton gets indicted regardless of staying in or dropping out Sanders has done a really good job of killing his momentum into the future by staying in Explain to me how the term "shill" is a sexist moniker. A total non-sequitur. Her husband is just as bad in this regard, virtually the entire GOP is a group of shills, Ted Cruz being the worst of them, and the Clintons in particular are egregious offenders of making money this way. Idk how this "Bernie Bro" smear campaign can even exist when he's obviously the most leftist politician we have. Sanders arguments at the convention will hold more weight if he's an actual contestant and him being a contestant gives credence to his cause since he's made it this far. Because of this your last remark makes no sense. I'm sure you understand that him not dropping out increases his chances of getting the nomination if she gets indicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I'll say this: sexist or not, if you use a term like 'Shillary', I don't think you also get to mock the intelligence of Trump supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingslayah Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 9 minutes ago, mormont said: I'll say this: sexist or not, if you use a term like 'Shillary', I don't think you also get to mock the intelligence of Trump supporters. Explain to me whats stupid about it? It's important to continually mock her for this since thats how you raise awareness. Or is that you just think that all forms of mockery are stupid? She's clearly a shill since theres no reason why investment banks would pay her for speeches. What special knowledge does she share in these speeches that these bankers are so eager to hear about? Or is she just a good entertainer? That money goes straight into her pocket unlike your common political donation. Why would she get this money if they expect nothing in return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Yeah, I'm not seeing how "Sillary" is sexist. It's stupid and makes the speaker look like a complete moron and tool, like "sheeple". But it's not sexist. 3 minutes ago, Kingslayah said: Sanders arguments at the convention will hold more weight if he's an actual contestant and him being a contestant gives credence to his cause since he's made it this far. Because of this your last remark makes no sense. I'm sure you understand that him not dropping out increases his chances of getting the nomination if she gets indicted. No they won't. Cause he will have lost and everyone will know it, regardless of if he starts a floor fight or refuses to concede or whatever. The truth is having a bunch of delegates and still losing nets you nothing at the convention according to the rules. The only thing he can get from it is via concessions based on goodwill from the party. And as we saw with the Barney Frank situation, that's not gonna get him shit anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kingslayah said: Explain to me whats stupid about it? It's important to continually mock her for this since thats how you raise awareness. Or is that you just think that all forms of mockery are stupid? I think that since mocking nicknames are literally page 1, line 1 of the Trump political playbook, it's hypocritical to say that somehow your mockery is 'important' to 'raise awareness' while at the same time looking down on Trump supporters who lap up that behaviour when Trump does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingslayah Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 17 minutes ago, Shryke said: No they won't. Cause he will have lost and everyone will know it, regardless of if he starts a floor fight or refuses to concede or whatever. The truth is having a bunch of delegates and still losing nets you nothing at the convention according to the rules. The only thing he can get from it is via concessions based on goodwill from the party. And as we saw with the Barney Frank situation, that's not gonna get him shit anymore. Everyone will know that he lost either way so I don't see your point. The vast majority of people said it was impossible for Bernie to get anywhere so having him force a convention is an important precedent to set so others like him can pick up where he left off. 14 minutes ago, mormont said: I think that since mocking nicknames are literally page 1, line 1 of the Trump political playbook, it's hypocritical to say that somehow your mockery is 'important' to 'raise awareness' while at the same time looking down on Trump supporters who lap up that behaviour when Trump does it. Trump's insults are made fun of because of how incredibly simple and crass they are. At least the word "shill" is SAT level vocabulary. Most high schoolers couldn't tell you what a shill is. Also, the term is relevant to the actual issues since the core theme of this election has been corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, mormont said: I think that since mocking nicknames are literally page 1, line 1 of the Trump political playbook, it's hypocritical to say that somehow your mockery is 'important' to 'raise awareness' while at the same time looking down on Trump supporters who lap up that behaviour when Trump does it. Except that insulting or dismissive political nicknames pre-date Trump by, well, a long time. They've been a feature of American politics since before the founding. The reality is, Trump's tendency to creative insulting or dismissive nicknames for his political rivals is pretty much the LEAST of his political sins. How many times was George W. Bush referred to as "dubya" or "shrub" on this board? How much backlash did it actually engender? Virtually none. I believe that you are more or less perfectly consistent on this issue - you were one of the only people, after all, that actually spoke out against the post-John Oliver tendency of some people on the board to refer to Trump as "Drumpf." But the reality is, if you're a Sanders supporter and your only significant political vice is that you call Hillary "Shillary" - you are not, in any meaningful way, comparable to a Trump supporter who not only calls her "Crooked Hillary," but who also wants to ban Muslims from entering the country, deport 11 million people and build a wall between the US and Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-for-Joffrey Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Shillary is indeed a stupid nick name but it's rich how so many Clinton supporters who take umbrage at the nickname throw out the term "Bernie bro" left and right to describe Sanders supporters. (Especially since it's not like Clinton is losing millennial women to Sanders...oh wait.) But hey, it's better than Mittens was for Romney I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kingslayah said: Everyone will know that he lost either way so I don't see your point. The vast majority of people said it was impossible for Bernie to get anywhere so having him force a convention is an important precedent to set so others like him to pick up where he left off. Pick what up? Forcing a convention fight does nothing. It won't get him anything because he lost and so lacks the delegates to do anything and the only other way to get anything accomplished at the convention is via the committees and such which are controlled by the party and the winner. He's got no pull here beyond threatening to burn it all down and we've just seen how much that gets him. It gets him nothing. He asked them to get rid of Barney Frank cause Frank keeps calling Sanders a tool and the party told Sanders to piss off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingslayah Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Just now, Shryke said: Pick what up? Forcing a convention fight does nothing. It won't get him anything because he lost and so lacks the delegates to do anything and the only other way to get anything accomplished at the convention is via the committees and such which are controlled by the party and the winner. He's got no pull here beyond threatening to burn it all down and we've just seen how much that gets him. It gets him nothing. He asked them to get rid of Barney Frank cause Frank keeps calling Sanders a tool and the party told Sanders to piss off. Maybe you should try addressing the argument I made about Sanders setting a precedent of getting this far with the positions he has after nearly everyone wrote his campaign off as hopeless from the beginning. I also don't understand how "the democratic party doesn't like him" qualifies as some kind of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Has Trump managed to overcome the structural deficit that Republicans have when it comes to the electoral college? No? Then relax about the general election polls, there are still about 12-16% undecideds, who will most likely break for Clinton (since the primary isnt over yet) Also, Clinton is leading at this point in many of the swing state polls (but its close). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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