Lorbar Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Does anyone else think after Olenna's speech to Cersei about being a bad person, maybe she didn't kill Joffrey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Stoneheart Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 But she did kill Joffrey (albeit with some help). She's admitted it herself. She even said to LF "Together we killed a king". I doubt she'd lie about something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo Kressh Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 18 hours ago, Lorbar said: Does anyone else think after Olenna's speech to Cersei about being a bad person, maybe she didn't kill Joffrey? Olenna killed Joffery, she even admitted it to Margery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 No, Olenna just thinks that killing Joffrey (and letting Tyrion take the fall) doesn't make her a bad person, but Cersei smiling at the imprisonment of the Tyrells - unforgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 When insulting someone else, people frequently are hypocrits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 On June 9, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Lorbar said: Does anyone else think after Olenna's speech to Cersei about being a bad person, maybe she didn't kill Joffrey? She definitely did. What that speech suggests to me is that Olenna will be dead. Soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeham Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 4 hours ago, Tianzi said: No, Olenna just thinks that killing Joffrey (and letting Tyrion take the fall) doesn't make her a bad person, but Cersei smiling at the imprisonment of the Tyrells - unforgivable. Mm. Joffrey had it coming but it's no secret how much Cersei loved him despite his numerous flaws. It wasn't a clean death either - he suffered immensely and Cersei could do nothing but watch in horror as it unfolded. Her smiling at Margaery and Loras being thrown in prison is very mild by comparison. I do like Olenna but despite her cunning she's just as shortsighted and hypocritical as Cersei is - and I really hope Cersei takes out Olenna before going down herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 How is Olenna a bad person for killing Joffrey? They should build statues and monuments in her name, Olenna should be the top name for babies, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 53 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said: How is Olenna a bad person for killing Joffrey? How is she a bad person? Um, not only is she a treasonous gram, she killed the noblest king who ever lived. He was on his way to crushing the pretenders and ending the Wot5k. They even created an Tony award winning play at his wedding about it, that noblemen from around the realm travelled far and wide to see. So basically Olenna killing him = Death of Summer and Shaggydog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 6 hours ago, SerMixalot said: When insulting someone else, people frequently are hypocrits Exactly - that's human nature and Olenna is human. Everyone is somewhat self righteous (meaning no-one is ever actually right) - which is a big part of the storytelling with this saga, even if it is being expressed clumsily of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neds Secret Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said: How is Olenna a bad person for killing Joffrey? They should build statues and monuments in her name, Olenna should be the top name for babies, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said: How is Olenna a bad person for killing Joffrey? They should build statues and monuments in her name, Olenna should be the top name for babies, etc. Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many. Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 2 hours ago, The Dames do Moan said: How is she a bad person? Um, not only is she a treasonous gram, she killed the noblest king who ever lived. He was on his way to crushing the pretenders and ending the Wot5k. They even created an Tony award winning play at his wedding about it, that noblemen from around the realm travelled far and wide to see. So basically Olenna killing him = Death of Summer and Shaggydog slight correction, Joffrey was the noblest child the gods ever put on this good earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 8 hours ago, Graeham said: Mm. Joffrey had it coming but it's no secret how much Cersei loved him despite his numerous flaws. It wasn't a clean death either - he suffered immensely and Cersei could do nothing but watch in horror as it unfolded. Her smiling at Margaery and Loras being thrown in prison is very mild by comparison. I do like Olenna but despite her cunning she's just as shortsighted and hypocritical as Cersei is - and I really hope Cersei takes out Olenna before going down herself. This I do love Olenna, but if she cruelly killed Cersei's son for her family's interests then she doesn't get to take the high ground to Cersei when she harms members of the House Tyrell for (what she thinks is) her family's interests, like she is the fucking Ned Stark. And, what everybody keeps ignoring, Tyrion would have been executed because of her actions if it weren't for Jaime, and she didn't exactly lift a finger to help him. I don't think Olenna is a better person than Cersei. She is smarter, her strikes are better and she creates less mess. Edit: Oh, and as a viewer I very sincerely miss Joffrey. His times were the fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Tianzi said: Oh, and as a viewer I very sincerely miss Joffrey. His times were the fun times. Whatever you say, Ros. ; - ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 9 hours ago, SerMixalot said: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many. Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Gandalf would've thought differently had he met the vile little shit that was Joffrey. Not even Gandalf has that much tolerance. 4 hours ago, Tianzi said: This I do love Olenna, but if she cruelly killed Cersei's son for her family's interests then she doesn't get to take the high ground to Cersei when she harms members of the House Tyrell for (what she thinks is) her family's interests, like she is the fucking Ned Stark. And, what everybody keeps ignoring, Tyrion would have been executed because of her actions if it weren't for Jaime, and she didn't exactly lift a finger to help him. I don't think Olenna is a better person than Cersei. She is smarter, her strikes are better and she creates less mess. Edit: Oh, and as a viewer I very sincerely miss Joffrey. His times were the fun times. I don't see how that's a bad thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said: Gandalf would've thought differently had he met the vile little shit that was Joffrey. Not even Gandalf has that much tolerance. I don't see how that's a bad thing And could have gotten Sansa killed and killing Joffrey put Cersei in charge of KL, which may lead to KL being blown up by atomic green bombs. For as Gandalf says "Even the very wise cannot see all ends." So yeah killing Joffrey could lead to some massive pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said: I don't see how that's a bad thing Actually, I'm pretty forgiving of that deed of Olenna too. One can be ruthless asshole and remain cool. However, when one start whining about somebody else being a ruthless asshole, they endanger their 'cool' status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Tianzi said: Actually, I'm pretty forgiving of that deed of Olenna too. One can be ruthless asshole and remain cool. A mother will do anything to save her daughter. Anything. The once-and-future Queen Margaery is Olenna’s granddaughter, and Joffery had proven himself a murderous psychopath. The Queen of Thorns saw how the Mad Kinglet torture two prostitutes and later brutally murder one of them. Her Thorniness had no choice in this. It is not being an asshole for the family matriarch to save the life of her granddaughter. No jury in the world would convict a mother from doing whatever she needed to do against a proven torture-rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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