(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion

[WingedShadow]

15 minutes ago, adamr said:

Behold: Jon's floppy sword.

http://imgur.com/w54N0Se

Real swords aren't stiff.

 

1 minute ago, WSmith84 said:

Genuine question: did Dany actually allow the Iron Islands to go independent? She's allowing one of the Seven Kingdoms to leave, making her Queen of the Six kingdoms, yes? Or are they just going to be lords again? I was thoroughly confused.

I think she's considering it, or at least allowing them to be pseudo-independent.

The Iron Islands are not one of the Seven Kingdoms. They are part of the remnants of one of them though. Their kingdom was destroyed when Aegon razed Harrenhal.

[Kingly]

wow 30+ pages in less than 24 hours.

These are just my general observances, criticisms and questions I have.

The Good:

• Cinematography was excellent in my opinion; some shots were very well done, especially in the northern storyline and the battle sequence there. The thick of battle scene following John was shot very well. John leaving the tent after speaking with Mel. The lingering wide shot on Davos after discovering the stag. Etc.
• Um.... Ramsay's face getting eaten by dogs? That was good I guess.

The Bad:

Mereen:

• Everything
• No just kidding, but a lot of things were confusing and irritating, starting with KellyC's face throughout her entire conversation with Tyrion. Seriously check it out. It doesn't move. Is that supposed to be... like intimidating... or noble? Looks like she took one too many Ambiens...
• Did that dragon just make a little puppy-dog squeal when she stepped on its wing to mount him? 
• I know the slavers "betrayed" them, but weren't they technically there as emissaries? Is it OK to just slaughter them in a meeting to discuss terms? There isn't such a thing as immunity? Even Ramsay "feedyoutomydogs" Bolton didn't go that far!
• Are the Sons of the Harpy just killing random civilians outside Mereen? There are like 20 of them. Why? Why not inside the city, just seems a bit random and out of place. What were they doing there? (so we can have the Dothraki charge someone down I guess)
• Just a little observation, not certain; but wouldn't the slavers ships carrying soldiers be at the very least operated by slaves? That's if the soldiers themselves wouldn't be slaves (think unsullied). I don't know, it would make them all burning to death by dragon less romantic and epic than if they were all filthy slavers!
• The scene with Dany and Yara. Oh my God. That was one of the worst scenes I have scene in this show. The level of cringe and overall stupidity was so high that I can't talk about it here. I might make a separate post to vent about it, because every single line, look, expression, exchange, etc was so mind numbingly stupid it needs to be analysed in depth. Even the way they were standing and sitting was stupid. Lord have mercy.

The North:

• The lack of music was an odd directorial choice for me, it really stood out in a number of scenes, especially when the Bolton banners were being torn down and the Stark banners were being hung over Winterfell. The scene continues into Davos  holding the burnt stag and giving Mel dirty looks, where I found the lack of score undermining the emotion of the scene. 
• Sansa..... She just... Sucks.... (I won't go into it too much because every action she takes, every line she utters and every look on her face is really terrible and irredeemable)
• Mel has out-lived any usefulness she once (may) have had. All she does is sit around and mope. Her scenes are utterly boring. For a 100 year old sorceress (or whatever she is) she is acting like a teenage girl who just got dumped by her boyfriend.
• Davos... *sigh* such a shame. What a waste of a great character.
• The constant Stannis bashing is getting on my nerves. Little jabs thrown in every chance they get. You butchered his storyline, ruined his character, and didn't even have the decency to give him a proper death scene. He is dead. Let him rest in peace.
• Some nonsensical things in the battle scene but I'll give them a pass because overall it was well shot and directed IMHO.
• FFS Rickon Zig-Zag you little shit. People have said it before but it really is unforgivable. 
• Couldn't you let John have his little moment with Wun-Wun. Seriously it isn't horrible to give the audience some tender moments here and there, without trying to rip the carpet out from under us. 
• On that note, Wun-Wun was dying and was not really a threat anymore. Wouldn't it have made more sense for Ramsey to just shoot John and kill him since he was standing right next to Wun-Wun and was undefended and off guard? Ramsay is like a cartoon character at this point. On a related note I know sometimes it is necessary but I find the "someone gets shot by an arrow, cut to image of person holding a bow in drawn position and slowly lowering it" camera shots really annoying. 

I don't know, I'm tired. The trailer for next week doesn't look like an exciting season finale. Will probably have the big R+J=L reveal. Inside the episode was annoying. D&D really don't know what they're talking about. At this point this episode proved that even if an episode is well shot and directed, the sheer stupidity of the writing (especially the dialogue) can't be ignored. I am sad. That is all.

[SuperMario]

1 minute ago, adamr said:

Iron Islands are not one of the Seven Kingdoms. 

Actually, the Iron Islands are part of the 7 Kingdoms. Technically, the Riverlands is part of the Iron Islands when referring to the 7 Kingdoms, but recently the Riverlands have been their own "kingdom", so technically there are 8 Kingdoms.

[adamr]

Just now, SuperMario said:

Actually, the Iron Islands are part of the 7 Kingdoms. Technically, the Riverlands is part of the Iron Islands when referring to the 7 Kingdoms, but recently the Riverlands have been their own "kingdom", so technically there are 8 Kingdoms.

What I meant is they are not a kingdom, such as the North or Vale.

[SerMixalot]

1 minute ago, WingedShadow said:

Real swords aren't stiff.

 

I keep telling my girlfriends that but they don't believe me

[adamr]

2 minutes ago, WingedShadow said:

Real swords aren't stiff.

I don't think they are that wobbly though, are they? They're made of steel after all, not rubber.

[SuperMario]

6 minutes ago, adamr said:

What I meant is they are not a kingdom, such as the North or Vale.

Again, yes, they are: The 7 Kingdoms are:

1. The North
2. The Vale
3. The Iron Islands
4. The Reach
5. The Westerlands
6. Dorne
7. The Stormlands

The Riverlands gets lumped in with The Iron Islands.

[adamr]

Just now, SuperMario said:

Again, yes, they are: The 7 Kingdoms are:

1. The North
2. The Vale
3. The Iron Islands
4. The Reach
5. The Westerlands
6. Dorne
7. The Stormlands

The Riverlands gets lumped in with The Iron Islands.

No, they are not. They were a kingdom together with Riverlands. The Kingdom of Isles and Rivers.

[Nymeria Pao]

17 hours ago, SixFeetUnder said:

Everyone seems to be missing this. 

Ramsey wouldn't come out and fight against the vale army. He wasn't that stupid. So if Sansa would have told Jon about the vale, he would have waited. And there would have been a long seige. And Sansa told Jon not to do the predictable. And she didn't. The only way to draw Ramsey out of the castle was to entice him with the windlings.  

I can't wait for the books..........

Apparently there never would have been a siege for the fact that he could've just had Wun Wun break the door down.

I too can't wait for the books...

[SuperMario]

6 minutes ago, adamr said:

No, they are not. They were a kingdom together with Riverlands. The Kingdom of Isles and Rivers.

Yes, you are right that is the name of that kingdom. I guess it could be different based on the kingdoms prior to Aegon's arrival or afterward.

[No One of Importance]

The episode was ok for what it was; it just makes me sad that this is what the show has become.

Remember when the battles were basically incidental to the story?  What did we see of the Whispering Wood?  Of the Fist of the First Men?  Of the taking of Meereen?  Little and less.  And the show was better for it.  Even when we did see a battle - Blackwater, Watchers on the Wall, Hardhome - the battle itself was secondary to character growth and legitimate plot advancement.  Tyrion's development as a military strategist (not to mention the Hound's dramatic story change and one of, if not the best, performances from Lena Headey in this series) anchored Blackwater.  Jon's assumption of command (remember when Jon was awesome?) made Watchers on the Wall what it was.  This season, and especially the past two episodes, have sacrificed storytelling for spectacle.  I have nothing against spectacle; it's been used in the show before to great effect, but it needs to be balanced against something else: character, plot, diction - any of those Aristotelian concepts.  There's a reason that Aristotle called spectacle the "least artistic" aspect of a tragedy.  It doesn't stand a story up on its own, but the showrunners seem to think it can, resulting in Arya's nonsensical chase scene through Braavos or Jon's wordless twenty minutes of battle.  So, sure, it looks cool, but it doesn't mean anything.  And that feels like a betrayal of what the show used to be, and what it could have been. 

[Schwarze Sonne]

The Iron Islands were part of the Seven Kingdoms but not one of them.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, QuickJones said:

I took Dany's look to Tyrion as more of a "Is this bitch really trying to shake my hand instead of kneeling?". Not as looking for his approval.

Maybe, but this is inherently the problem with DnD's storytelling prowess (the directors in their circle). They cannot convey what they intend to on the screen. You have to tune in to their after show to understand what is going on. Sometimes subtly and subversion can be interesting, but in the case of this show it creates confusion in narrative. Consider--DnD's original pilot was such a narrative mess, it had to be almost entirely reshot to make sense. They are poor storytellers. Dany looking to man before she shakes a hand? It could be--should I shake this hand? Should she be kneeling? Either way, it is a "powerful" woman looking to a man for approval. A man she had literally been treating like a child earlier in the episode. Don't forget "powerful" Samsa did this with Theon earlier in the season. It is largely problematic with their storytelling. Women can't seem to decide without looking to men, who often they have previously hated. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, W1NT3RF3LL said:

Hey she looked in the mans eyes when he was getting torn up by his dogs.  As long as you are looking at them face to face when it is happening justice has been served.

 

Yeah, I could see Ned unleashing the hounds as a form of justice--as long as he did it. (We're winking and being sarcastic right?)

[SerMixalot]

2 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Maybe, but this is inherently the problem with DnD's storytelling prowess (the directors in their circle). They cannot convey what they intend to on the screen. You have to tune in to their after show to understand what is going on. Sometimes subtly and subversion can be interesting, but in the case of this show it creates confusion in narrative. Consider--DnD's original pilot was such a narrative mess, it had to be almost entirely reshot to make sense. They are poor storytellers. Dany looking to man before she shakes a hand? It could be--should I shake this hand? Should she be kneeling? Either way, it is a "powerful" woman looking to a man for approval. A man she had literally been treating like a child earlier in the episode. Don't forget "powerful" Samsa did this with Theon earlier in the season. It is largely problematic with their storytelling. Women can't seem to decide without looking to men, who often they have previously hated. 

Coming after Yara looking to Theon for approval, the act by Dany means one thing, approval

[WSmith84]

15 minutes ago, adamr said:

No, they are not. They were a kingdom together with Riverlands. The Kingdom of Isles and Rivers.

Well, Robert (in show) said that one wasn't a man until one had fucked a girl from each of the seven Kingdoms AND the Riverlands (season 1, boar hunting scene). So, that would make the Iron IsLands one of them, no?

The main point is, Dany is going to allow a group to go independent and reject her authority. Why even bother fighting for the throne if you aren't going to keep the Kingdom together and rule it?

[Centrist Simon Steele]

2 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Coming after Yara looking to Theon for approval, the act by Dany means one thing, approval

I forgot that one. It happens SO much in this show.

[Quiet Sister]

15 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, they actually made Sansa worse than Cersei.

I never expected this to happen, but the show made me wish for Sandor to be spared from reunion with Fansa vel Sandra. Little bird turned into vulture

[SerMixalot]

I wonder if Jon will have a "You are either an idiot or my enemy" dialogue with Sansa next week

[LadyDoom]

2 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Yeah, I could see Ned unleashing the hounds as a form of justice--as long as he did it. (We're winking and being sarcastic right?)

I loved that while Sansa was so much like Cat, she actually has Ned's gentle nature and lack of a single mean bone in her body. While Arya is so much like Ned but she has Cat's fiery revenge spirit. 

They are trying to make Sansa more Arya like (I love Arya but one Arya is enough) just keep Sansa as Sansa damn it.