[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussions - First We Take King's Landing Edition

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, Tijgy said:

I did not really felt spoiled by that rumor . 

Yeah, readers already knew he was back. It was obvious that was him on the QI, he threw about a dozen hints, if you missed one, there were 11 more. And it was obvious on the show. Like the maester behind the rock line. We never saw him die and they never said he was dead. And Weiss said he hoped we love him after the episode, which is like saying, to be continued.

[Tijgy]

Quote

 

Back in the executive session, Bloys was asked if the network – and premium cable in general – were relying heavily on sexualized violence as a way of scene-setting and world building. “I’d like to not think so,” he said. “Using Game of Thrones, violence is not just specific to women, it’s men and women. It’s indiscriminate, I would say, so I don’t think so. I think it’s violence in general. I don’t know that it’s specific to women. Men are killed as well.”

Critics pressed: Why were women being assaulted more than men?

“I don’t necessarily see it as specific to women,” Bloys pushed back. “The point of is there a lot of violence in Westworld and Game of Thrones? Yes, but I don’t necessarily think that it’s specifically isolated to women.”

Critics continued to ask about the issue, specifically making the point that shows don’t depict sexual violence on men. “No, you haven’t seen men being raped,” he agreed. “But the point I would make in Game of Thronesfor example is men are castrated, a guy is fed a cake made of his sons. The violence is pretty extreme on all fronts. I take your point that so far there have not been any male rapes, but my point is the violence is spread equally.”

When asked if HBO shows would eventually depict that same type of violence toward men, Bloys quipped, “We’re going to kill everybody.”

 

http://time.com/4432038/game-of-thrones-westworld-rape/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+time%2Ftopstories+(TIME%3A+Top+Stories)

and http://winteriscoming.net/2016/07/31/hbo-president-bloys-questioned-on-game-of-thrones-violence/

I really gets irritated every time they stop the whole conversation "we are going to kill everybody". 

On the other side I actually take also a lot of issue the fact people are ignoring the fact this several men were sexually assaulted or that this was used as a joke. The thousand eunuch jokes, the butthole, Bronn molesting Pod, Yara abusing Theon, ...  Those things are not funny. 

[Le Cygne]

Doesn't sound like this guy harbors much change at HBO...

[Tijgy]

12 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Doesn't sound like this guy harbors much change at HBO...

So long the money keeps coming, there is not really an incentive to change. 

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Tijgy said:

http://time.com/4432038/game-of-thrones-westworld-rape/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+time%2Ftopstories+(TIME%3A+Top+Stories)

and http://winteriscoming.net/2016/07/31/hbo-president-bloys-questioned-on-game-of-thrones-violence/

I really gets irritated every time they stop the whole conversation "we are going to kill everybody". 

On the other side I actually take also a lot of issue the fact people are ignoring the fact this several men were sexually assaulted or that this was used as a joke. The thousand eunuch jokes, the butthole, Bronn molesting Pod, Yara abusing Theon, ...  Those things are not funny. 

was reading this line and I had the same feeling.

I'm a bit tired of shocking -sadistic murders.

[TimeforTravel]

GoT is like a feminist's dream come true these last few seasons. And they still complain?

[Tijgy]

32 minutes ago, TimeforTravel said:

GoT is like a feminist's dream come true these last few seasons. And they still complain?

I think D&D believe they are feminist in last season but I do not really consider "women on top" a good feminist message. I consider Faullaria killing Doran because men are weak as very offensive. I also cringed when I saw Dany smirk at the death of the Dothraki and during Yara's and Dany's talk. 

I am really not happy about what they did with the female characters last season. 

Further the fact women were supposedly empowered do not diminish the fact how they treated (and still treat) women in the show. They should still be criticized especially now we can see more clearly for example the (not existing) narrative purpose of Sansa in Winterfell last year. I am however unhappy with the fact they are only criticizing violence against women, while there is indeed also (sexual) violence against men (which was actually in this season more prominent and which was several times used as a (very offensive) joke.

[Le Cygne]

15 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I think D&D believe they are feminist in last season but I do not really consider "women on top" a good feminist message. I consider Faullaria killing Doran because men are weak as very offensive. I also cringed when I saw Dany smirk at the death of the Dothraki and during Yara's and Dany's talk. 

I am really not happy about what they did with the female characters last season. 

Further the fact women were supposedly empowered do not diminish the fact how they treated (and still treat) women in the show. They should still be criticized especially now we can see more clearly for example the (not existing) narrative purpose of Sansa in Winterfell last year.

Don't forget Sandra's smirk of empowerment.

15 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I am however unhappy with the fact they are only criticizing violence against women, while there is indeed also (sexual) violence against men (which was actually in this season more prominent and which was several times used as a (very offensive) joke.

I think the far larger share of their issues are with women, so I was glad the critics called them on it.

[Tijgy]

10 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Don't forget Sandra's smirk of empowerment.

I think the far larger share of their issues are with women, so I was glad the critics called them on it.

I only saw it in the WiC and not the original one, but there was a claim that the only sexual violence was against women and none sexual violence against men (and the HBO went on to claim men also got hurt ; not valid argument, hbo boss). 

Sadly this season they kept making jokes about men getting sexually assaulted or sexually mutilated. 

I do however agree with the fact their issues are indeed more with women. So yeah, I am also happy the critics called them on it; but this is the one thing actually get (rightfully) most criticized. I do think however some other issues like the sexual assaults against men, their ableism, ... should also not been ignored and it should also been criticized. And it should certainly not be said those things do not exist in their show. 

[Simbacca]

Violence is violence.  People make a big thing about fictional sexual violence because it involves sex and too many people are prudish about sex.  Also, violence against males is seen as normal, while violence against females is taboo.  Most violence in GoT is non-sexual violence.  Most violence happens to male characters.  Violence happens to ten males, no one cares.  Violence happens to one female, everybody loses their minds.

[Neds Secret]

13 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Don't forget Sandra's smirk of empowerment.

I think the far larger share of their issues are with women, so I was glad the critics called them on it.

If only the critics would call D$D on the rest of their bullshit, like Hempstead wright did when he joked that the Direwolves are being killed for budgetary reasons, budgetary reasons on the most expensive Television show made in history!

[Tijgy]

9 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

If only the critics would call D$D on the rest of their bullshit, like Hempstead wright did when he joked that the Direwolves are being killed for budgetary reasons, budgetary reasons on the most expensive Television show made in history!

I really liked Isaac but since that comment he became my hero. 

It was also because of budgetary reasons BR had two eyes and not one. (I actually think the 3ER wasn't never really Bloodraven on the show, just some random wizard in a tree.

[Liver and Onions]

Game of Thrones is not this feminist's dream come true, I can tell you that.

I just finished watching the Borgias, and I know that show was canceled partially because of it's high budget, but dang, they showed that budget on the screen. Perhaps they need to budget better on GoT to show the important stuff, like the direwolves. Who are, you know, important.

The question was indeed about "sexualized violence," which is different than regular violence. I feel like that's a discussion for another thread.

Also, Westworld? Isn't that somewhere else entirely?

[Le Cygne]

19 minutes ago, Liver and Onions said:

Game of Thrones is not this feminist's dream come true, I can tell you that.

I just finished watching the Borgias, and I know that show was canceled partially because of it's high budget, but dang, they showed that budget on the screen. Perhaps they need to budget better on GoT to show the important stuff, like the direwolves. Who are, you know, important.

The question was indeed about "sexualized violence," which is different than regular violence. I feel like that's a discussion for another thread.

Also, Westworld? Isn't that somewhere else entirely?

I agree, not this feminist's dream come true, either. And yes, sexualized violence is different.

Westworld! It's the place where everything makes sense. Where the direwolves live!

[TimeforTravel]

17 hours ago, Tijgy said:

I think D&D believe they are feminist in last season but I do not really consider "women on top" a good feminist message. I consider Faullaria killing Doran because men are weak as very offensive. I also cringed when I saw Dany smirk at the death of the Dothraki and during Yara's and Dany's talk. 

I am really not happy about what they did with the female characters last season. 

Further the fact women were supposedly empowered do not diminish the fact how they treated (and still treat) women in the show. They should still be criticized especially now we can see more clearly for example the (not existing) narrative purpose of Sansa in Winterfell last year. I am however unhappy with the fact they are only criticizing violence against women, while there is indeed also (sexual) violence against men (which was actually in this season more prominent and which was several times used as a (very offensive) joke.

I agree 100%, women are not the only ones with gender related problems in our society. I'm all for equality, and putting women on top in all storylines doesn't make men and women more "equal". I always cringe when a new book/tv series has it's obligatory "Strong female protagonist" and "gay character". They should fit in the story, and not just being inserted for the heck of it.

[rosehustle1]

On 7/31/2016 at 7:35 PM, Tijgy said:

I only saw it in the WiC and not the original one, but there was a claim that the only sexual violence was against women and none sexual violence against men (and the HBO went on to claim men also got hurt ; not valid argument, hbo boss). 

Sadly this season they kept making jokes about men getting sexually assaulted or sexually mutilated. 

I do however agree with the fact their issues are indeed more with women. So yeah, I am also happy the critics called them on it; but this is the one thing actually get (rightfully) most criticized. I do think however some other issues like the sexual assaults against men, their ableism, ... should also not been ignored and it should also been criticized. And it should certainly not be said those things do not exist in their show. 

The ableism is really terrible on this show. The way they devalue Bran's importance in the plot. The way they made Lollys appear stupid instead of developmentally disabled. The way they took away Robert Arryn's shaking illness which is probably our world equivalent of epilepsy. The Hodor reveal was done in such a terrible context. Doran being considered a 'weak' man and then having him  walk when he's supposed to be in excruciating pain from gout. Sandor's limp isn't even a factor when he's lifting huge ass piece of lumber. Jamie's hand is played as a joke. I'm sure I'm missing some characters but it's all pretty gross. You know I'll also add Tyrion because he's become this untouchable character. They disregard the real world issues he would have in this society because he's a little person and instead have people act unrealistically reverent toward him, even having a whole city gladly follow his leadership when he would be even more 'othered' than Dany. Making him a special snowflake is just as bad as making him a negative stereotype.

I also wish critics would call them out on that Yara bullshit with Theon. That scene would have gotten so much blow back if it had been Jon talking like that to Sansa. Why was this at all okay with anyone?

[Liver and Onions]

8 hours ago, rosehustle1 said:

I also wish critics would call them out on that Yara bullshit with Theon. That scene would have gotten so much blow back if it had been Jon talking like that to Sansa. Why was this at all okay with anyone?

This last bit is especially revealing. Jon treating Sansa like that and then going on to "fornicate the mammaries" off of a slave girl would have been torn apart, and rightly so. Yara should not get a pass. 

[rosehustle1]

3 hours ago, Liver and Onions said:

This last bit is especially revealing. Jon treating Sansa like that and then going on to "fornicate the mammaries" off of a slave girl would have been torn apart, and rightly so. Yara should not get a pass. 

I think it goes again with the problem with the show that they think when a female character does this kind of thing it's 'empowered'. Nope. It's abusive and gross no matter the gender. She raped a sex slave, the woman had the tattoo indicating her slave status which means she cannot give consent, and then told her brother to kill himself if he couldn't get over his PTSD. It would have been an explosion of outrage if Jon had told Sansa to get over her abuse or just kill herself, especially if she had been physically mutilated, and then he went to rape a sex slave.

It's a problem with the whole season that female characters are seen as empowered by being violent, abusive, and merciless. They can have female characters exhibit these traits but the narrative shouldn't depict it as a positive development or try to paint it as feminist. That's the issue. Feminism is not about destroying men or getting a one up on them. It's literally about having equality between the genders.

[Le Cygne]

The sad thing is Asha had a really nice romance with Qarl in the books. There was mutual admiration and respect, and desire and love, he was a source of comfort and strength to her. Truly empowering, she had someone who believed in her.

[NutBurz]

Depicts only idealized females = you´re a shitty feminist who thinks women are better than men.

Depicts some idealized and some clearly broken females who happened to have some sort of power = you´re a shitty feminist who thinks murder is cool.

 

Sometimes, you just can´t win.

 

ps-in other words, if you think that Sansa smiling after feeding someone to hungry dogs is meant to be an empowering feminist message, maybe the problem is not in the series.