If Jon becomes King , who will be his Queen ?

[IceFire125]

59 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

Why would he need Bran when he could skinchange the dragon himself? He could gain a newfound appreciation for skinchanging after the Ides of Marsh given it helped to save his life. Borroq likely is mentioned for a reason. He has was around when Varamyr was a kid, and is likely the oldest and most experienced skinchanger after BR. He could serve as a mentor to Jon for skinchanging. 

With Jon comparing himself to Valyrian steel add to that Donal Noye's quote regarding the Baratheon brothers: "Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day."

With the comparisons of men to metals, Robert who was the only one to sit the IT was compared to steel. So, in that quote Jon comparing himself to Valyrian steel, it is not just being hinted at being Valyrian in heritage, but being made of the stuff of kings. With Valyrian steel being the best quality metal, it could be saying Jon has the potential to be the best kind of king. 

Indeed, Borroq may helped Jon when he recognized that Jon is still holding back his "gift" of skinchanging.  GRRM most likely would not have Jon go super saiyan on skinchanging right away, even with the time inside Ghost.

Yes, Jon has Valyrian blood inside him and that will immensely help his affinity with a dragon (Drogon or Cannibal --- needs to be black). However, regarding Bran, I brought it up because it's the only way that it parallel's Jon's elections: Lord Commander of the NW and King at the Great Council.  BranRaven will some how subdue/influence the dragon as it circles around Harrenhal prompting the Lords and the people at the Great Council to be at awe as it lands near Jon.  It will be Jon's own courage, looking straight into the eyes of the dragon as did Dany and denying to show fear.  But, unlike Dany, Jon will not carry a whip to subdue the dragon (that's being done by Bran), he will skinchange and slip his thoughts to have the dragon bend and lower its shoulder for him to mount it.

If the dragon is Drogon, it's even more important that it must be Bran and Jon's combination to break Dany's bond, assume she's present and still alive; to appreciate the shock, witnessing Jon suddenly mounting Drogon right before her... thus proving his a Targaryen not just to the Lords of Westeros, but to her as well.

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

14 hours ago, IceFire125 said:

Indeed, Borroq may helped Jon when he recognized that Jon is still holding back his "gift" of skinchanging.  GRRM most likely would not have Jon go super saiyan on skinchanging right away, even with the time inside Ghost.

Yes, Jon has Valyrian blood inside him and that will immensely help his affinity with a dragon (Drogon or Cannibal --- needs to be black). However, regarding Bran, I brought it up because it's the only way that it parallel's Jon's elections: Lord Commander of the NW and King at the Great Council.  BranRaven will some how subdue/influence the dragon as it circles around Harrenhal prompting the Lords and the people at the Great Council to be at awe as it lands near Jon.  It will be Jon's own courage, looking straight into the eyes of the dragon as did Dany and denying to show fear.  But, unlike Dany, Jon will not carry a whip to subdue the dragon (that's being done by Bran), he will skinchange and slip his thoughts to have the dragon bend and lower its shoulder for him to mount it.

If the dragon is Drogon, it's even more important that it must be Bran and Jon's combination to break Dany's bond, assume she's present and still alive; to appreciate the shock, witnessing Jon suddenly mounting Drogon right before her... thus proving his a Targaryen not just to the Lords of Westeros, but to her as well.

I would love to see this happen. Not because I particularly like the idea of Jon riding a dragon but in order to see the havok that it would creat to the fans. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 7/7/2016 at 5:31 AM, kissdbyfire said:

I adore this passage.  

One of my favorite passages is "Lonely and lovely and lethal".

On 8/7/2016 at 11:45 PM, The Wolves said:

The Iron Throne is a symbol of millions of lives lost for a ugly chair that has spilled innocent blood, tore homes apart and extinct families. 

It is a symbol of greed, pettiness, ugliness, corruption, and everything else that represents the nastiness of human beings. That throne is not a prize. 

And making up house words are not your thing, let GRRM do that. 

* apply water to the burn area* 

On 9/7/2016 at 6:47 AM, Winter's Cold said:

If GRRM felt that Jon/Arya was over, he shouldn't have centered Jon's ADWD so heavily around Arya. ADWD makes it appear that Arya is the person most precious to him. Jon even dies thinking of her. 

Since when being precious to someone means a marriage and procreation? I may be wrong but while Jon dies he thinks Ghost.

 

[TheDemonicStark]

I still ship Jeyne Poole and Jon Snow!

[GhostNymeria]

3 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

One of my favorite passages is "Lonely and lovely and lethal".

* apply water to the burn area* 

Since when being precious to someone means a marriage and procreation? I may be wrong but while Jon dies he thinks Ghost.

 

He's last word is "Ghost", then his last thought is "Stick 'em with the pointy end".

[Jon's Queen Consort]

20 minutes ago, GhostNymeria said:

He's last word is "Ghost", then his last thought is "Stick 'em with the pointy end".

And from that you understood that they will marry?

[GhostNymeria]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

And from that you understood that they will marry?

Yes, of course I base my theory on one single qoute from the books 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, GhostNymeria said:

Yes, of course I base my theory on one single qoute from the books 

So what was your point? The fact that I was wrong when I had already said that I may be wrong?

[The Fattest Leech]

2 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

And from that you understood that they will marry?

Yea, Jon's last word is "Ghost" because he is calling out to Ghost most likely to complete his first conscious warging into his direwolf. At this point in the story, Jon is only now accepting that he is more like a wildling and that he and Ghost are one and he knows Ghost will keep him safe.

Jon does briefly think of the life lesson that he teaches Arya about how to stab and kill someone because he is currently being stabbed and "killed". Arya herself even calls it a lesson as she talks about it with her dad and then again as she stabs and kills that horse boy who tries to grab her to turn her in.

If you want to get technical, Jon never mentions Arya's name and his last, last thoughts are about what he physically feels, daggers and pain, and the life lesson. There is nothing romantic about it at all.

• A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII

  Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it.

  Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost," he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold …

• A Game of Thrones - Arya IV

  "I says, come." He grabbed her arm, hard.
  Everything Syrio Forel had ever taught her vanished in a heartbeat. In that instant of sudden terror, the only lesson Arya could remember was the one Jon Snow had given her, the very first.
  She stuck him with the pointy end, driving the blade upward with a wild, hysterical strength.

• A Game of Thrones - Arya II

  "She was," Eddard Stark agreed, "beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time." He lifted the sword, held it out between them. "Arya, what did you think to do with this … Needle? Who did you hope to skewer? Your sister? Septa Mordane? Do you know the first thing about sword fighting?"

  All she could think of was the lesson Jon had given her. "Stick them with the pointy end," she blurted out.

  Her father snorted back laughter. "That is the essence of it, I suppose."

[GhostNymeria]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

So what was your point? The fact that I was wrong when I had already said that I may be wrong?

Yes it was a correction. Moving on

[The Fattest Leech]

4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

One of my favorite passages is "Lonely and lovely and lethal".

* apply water to the burn area* 

Since when being precious to someone means a marriage and procreation? I may be wrong but while Jon dies he thinks Ghost.

 

What happens to Jon when he gets stabbed at the mutiny is very much like what happens to Robb at his own mutiny during the Red Wedding. Robb and Jon both make the stupid decision to lock up their direwolves in a tense situation, and then both get mutiny stabbed, and then both call out to their wolves as they are being killed. Both Robb and Jon's last words are for their direwolf because it is the direwolf that they are linked to to keep them safe. There is nothing romantic about it at all.

• A Storm of Swords - Catelyn VII

"Yes. Robb, get up. Get up and walk out, please, please. Save yourself . . . if not for me, for Jeyne."

"Jeyne?" Robb grabbed the edge of the table and forced himself to stand. "Mother," he said, "Grey Wind . . ."

"Go to him. Now. Robb, walk out of here."

 

[a black swan]

On 14/07/2016 at 11:08 AM, Dawn of Fyre said:

If Jon is forced to marry one of his cousins (R+L=J) then Sansa would not be the wisest choice. She was betrothed to one Lannister and married off to another. Westeros most likely believes said marriage was consumated. No matter how hard she denies, the stain will haunt her forever. And it seems like she's going to marry Harry the heir who might become the next lord of the Vale should LF's plan work out. Sansa has to much baggage. Marrying an unspoiled Stark would be a much more valid option for Jon Snow/Targaryen. This is hypothetical of course, and assumes that Jon would have to marry his cousin in order to unify a northern independence? Or something. I don't know. But regardless, Sansa has to much baggage.

It always amazes me that the person he is most closest to that is still living is pushed to the side ... just because. What?

GhostNymeria, there is no point in arguing this pov with certain people. It's like arguing in circles and your words just get twisted, as demonstrated when you brought up the last thought he has: drawn from a moment he clearly feels strongly about. That line is also grrm's favorite and to some it's just a "lesson" connected to nothing and no one. lol

To say he remembers Arya (like he does throughout the books, as does Arya) and making the point that it is supporting their strong bond. The Outline is almost 20 years old when Dance came out. Grrm knows how the story ends, knows Arya and Jon's fates BEFORE the outline. He is keeping his original ending which he confirmed earlier this year, with tweaks to finer details. Who Arya or Jon end up with is not a minor detail. Yet grrm continues to feed Jon and Arya's bond all the way through Dance, interlacing the torment in the struggle Jon goes through in saving Arya and breaking his vows. He will likely return to life more connected to his direwolf. I think their connection with their direwolves will come into play later on as well. You see Nym is close to Ghost and if they both have wolf dreams - another angle for grrm to explore. 

[The Fattest Leech]

12 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

It always amazes me that the person he is most closest to that is still living is pushed to the side ... just because. What?

GhostNymeria, there is no point in arguing this pov with certain people. It's like arguing in circles and your words just get twisted, as demonstrated when you brought up the last thought he has: drawn from a moment he clearly feels strongly about. That line is also grrm's favorite and to some it's just a "lesson" connected to nothing and no one. lol

To say he remembers Arya (like he does throughout the books, as does Arya) and making the point that it is supporting their strong bond. The Outline is almost 20 years old when Dance came out. Grrm knows how the story ends, knows Arya and Jon's fates BEFORE the outline. He is keeping his original ending which he confirmed earlier this year, with tweaks to finer details. Who Arya or Jon end up with is not a minor detail. Yet grrm continues to feed Jon and Arya's bond all the way through Dance, interlacing the torment in the struggle Jon goes through in saving Arya and breaking his vows. He will likely return to life more connected to his direwolf. I think their connection with their direwolves will come into play later on as well. You see Nym is close to Ghost and if they both have wolf dreams - another angle for grrm to explore. 

Your passive aggressiveness is childish.

There is so much on that outline that changed, that George admitted to changing because he took two years off between starting with 200 pages and then continuing on. People were invented, storylines dropped or drastically altered, etc. But you want to glom on to something that was never specified. The ending was blacked out. Seriously, you can't compare the outline to what the books have shown readers now. Hardly anything. George took incest away from the Starks and Cersei was invented to show incest is bad and only results in monsters. And don't try the "stark grandparents were cousins" thing because again, you are not looking at the whole picture and are cherry picking to try and force an ending into your own personal wishes. The Stark grandparents were an arranged marriage and they were cousins, once removed. Seriously, there were three other bloodlines introduced between the generations.  At that point they shared far less "blood" than Jon and Arya do.

And what does George do to drive the no Stark incest point in??? Why, he gives us Ygritte to explain to readers that you don't pick from your own village and according to the old gods, of which young Arya is part of, incest and is wrong. Why do you constantly want Arya to go against her own family beliefs and her own religion for your own fantasy? What, do you want her to be a traitor or something? Arya is not a traitor to her family and I don't see why you keeping wishing that on her.

Jon thinks about/talks about Robb through all of the books more than twice as often as he does Arya. He wants to be like Robb in many cases. He talks about Robb to other people, but he doesn't with Arya. Jon thinks about all of his family. Robb and Jon have the same "ending". How come you are not shipping those two together in a bittersweet, lost love ending?

[Dex drako]

the problem with the Jon/arya is at this point it would just be thrown together at this point and honestly I have the same problem with Jon/dany paring too.

in the original outline Jon and arya were going to spend a good two out of the three books building the relationship up. that would have work because love stories need time to build or they feel forced. but that didn't happen and arya right now is a very different person to the arya from the outline or from the start of the story.

honestly the only paring I see working is the Jon/Val paring as it has the most build;d up.

 

[DragonDreamer]

On 7/4/2016 at 0:13 PM, Scorpion92 said:

Jon will marry Dany, whether people like it or not. Just too many hints in the text foreshadowing this.

"A pact of ice and fire" needs to be fulfilled between Starks and Targaryens.

This! The foreshadowing for this paring is too strong. I'm not saying that they will survive the War for Dawn and live happily ever after (they'll probably both die) but they are going to get together, IMO. 

I thought that the World book including two Stark uncles marrying their nieces (without needing to) was a little nod to the fact that Starks are not adverse to marrying family. And of course Lord Rickon and Lady Stark being first cousins once-removed is another nod to that. 

The marriage might start out political, which would make sense given the political climate  in Westeros right now but I do think they'll come to love one another. 

ETA: The love stories of Dany/Drogo (GRRM refers to it as love no matter how we may fell about it) and Jon/Ygritte barely spanned a book each. 

[TheDemonicStark]

Just now, DragonDreamer said:

This! The foreshadowing for this paring is too strong. I'm not saying that they will survive the War for Dawn and live happily ever after (they'll probably both die) but they are going to get together, IMO. 

I thought that the World book including two Stark uncles marrying their nieces (without needing to) was a little nod to the fact that Starks are not adverse to marrying family. And of course Lord Rickon and Lady Stark being first cousins once-removed is another nod to that. 

The marriage might start out political, which would make sense given the political climate  in Westeros right now but I do think they'll come to love one another. 

THE PROPHECY WAS ALREADY FULFILLED, DAMMIT! R(fire)+L(ice)=Jon Snow!

[DragonDreamer]

Just now, TheDemonicStark said:

THE PROPHECY WAS ALREADY FULFILLED, DAMMIT! R(fire)+L(ice)=Jon Snow!

What are you talking about? That's not the only peace of foreshadowing for these two characters. There is a truck load of it, which spans all five books. 

[TheDemonicStark]

1 minute ago, DragonDreamer said:

What are you talking about? That's not the only peace of foreshadowing for these two characters. There is a truck load of it, which spans all five books. 

Where exactly is it?

[DragonDreamer]

7 minutes ago, TheDemonicStark said:

Where exactly is it?

Well, we have all the parallels between these two characters, for example:

• Both are orphans. Both lost their fathers before their birth, during Robert’s Rebellion, and both mothers died bringing them into the world.

• They were smuggled away from their place of birth - Daenerys went in exile to Essos, Jon was carried to Winterfell. They both suffered abuse: Jon by Catelyn, and Daenerys by Viserys (Daenerys case is much worse of course). Dany was in the shadow of Viserys; Jon was in the shadow of Robb.

• Both Jon’s and Daenerys’ journeys in ASOIAF start with a feast: Jon’s very first chapter is the feast at Winterfell, when he takes the crucial life-changing decision of joining the Night’s Watch. Daenerys’s very first chapter is the preparation for her wedding feast with Khal Drogo; her second chapter is the feast itself. It happens at the same time as Jon’s story.

 • Both have Mormonts has mentors, Jon has Jeor and Dany has Jorah. Also, Jon wields the Mormont family sword Longclaw which once belonged to Jorah

• Both Jon and Daenerys develop affection to their companions after a rough start. 

• When Drogo and Ygritte die, it’s in the hands of Daenerys and Jon.

• Both Jon and Daenerys feel guilty about their lost first loves, and mourn them.

• Both Daenerys and Jon rose to power quickly, and at a very young age. Daenerys is Queen of Meereen at 15, Jon is made Lord Commander at 16. Note that it happens at the same time: Daenerys takes up residence in Meereen and becomes Queen, while Jon becomes Lord Commander, both at the end of Storm of Swords.

• They are the two best examples of young leaders in the novels. How they rule, the difficulties they are facing, the trials they undergo. Their stories illustrate the battle against their inexperiences and will to move forward “kill the boy and let the man be born” “if I look back, I’m lost”.

• Daenerys was offered the chance to return to Westeros, but she decied to stay in Meereen to rule and help her people. Jon was offered to be made a Stark of Winterfell, but he refused because he knows he has a duty to the Night’s Watch, and because he feels that as a bastard, he doesn’t have morally the right to be Lord of Winterfell.

• Both want the best for all the sides, and both struggle to be accepted by those they rule. They both turn their attention to the outcasts of the society,to those other people refused: Jon cares for the Wildling, and is the first Lord Commander in history to make peace with them and allow them to cross the Wall; while Daenerys releases thousands of enslaved people and does everything she can to keep them alive.

• Both faced assassination attempts, by those who disagreed with their ways of ruling. While Daenerys escaped her poisoned locusts by luck, Jon is stabbed by his Brothers. And again, these events happens at the same time, at the end of A Dance with Dragons.

• Both are connected to magical legendary beasts: a direwolf for Jon, and 3 dragons for Daenerys.

• Both think of their family they never knew: Jon quite a lot of his mother, and Daenerys of Rhaegar and Aerys, and her ancestors.

• Daenerys feels the need to carry her Targaryen lineage and fulfill the duty to her House, Jon also want to impress his (adoptive) father Eddard.

Quote

He was no true Stark, had never been one … but he could die like one. Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three.

 

Quote

 

“Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?”

 

• Finally, Daenerys’ prophecy from the House of the Undying:

Quote

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. … mother of dragons, bride of fire …

The obvious reference to Jon (blue flower in a Wall of ice) is part of the prophecy concerning Daenerys’ love interests, symbolised by the word “bride”.

And there are subtle foreshadowings when Jon and Daenerys think of the magical beast of the other (unbeknown to them of course)

Quote

He might as well wish for another thousand men, and maybe a dragon or three. - Jon, A Storm of Swords

 

Quote

Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry. - Daenerys, A Dance with Dragons

An interesting interview with George R.R. Martin. In about minute 27:35 he talks about Targaryen's marrying family and he mentions Nephews marrying their Aunts but in the Targaryen family tree there are no such marriages. Perhaps a little slip up. 

 

[GhostNymeria]

2 hours ago, DutchArya said:

GhostNymeria, there is no point in arguing this pov with certain people. It's like arguing in circles and your words just get twisted, as demonstrated when you brought up the last thought he has: drawn from a moment he clearly feels strongly about. That line is also grrm's favorite and to some it's just a "lesson" connected to nothing and no one. lol

To say he remembers Arya (like he does throughout the books, as does Arya) and making the point that it is supporting their strong bond. The Outline is almost 20 years old when Dance came out. Grrm knows how the story ends, knows Arya and Jon's fates BEFORE the outline. He is keeping his original ending which he confirmed earlier this year, with tweaks to finer details. Who Arya or Jon end up with is not a minor detail. Yet grrm continues to feed Jon and Arya's bond all the way through Dance, interlacing the torment in the struggle Jon goes through in saving Arya and breaking his vows. He will likely return to life more connected to his direwolf. I think their connection with their direwolves will come into play later on as well. You see Nym is close to Ghost and if they both have wolf dreams - another angle for grrm to explore. 

The notion for some people here that the outline is the "only proof" there is for a Jon/Arya is absolutely false. I had no clue about the outline when I read Ice Turtle's thread (Unfortunetly only part 1 of it is available now), and that was the thread that convinced me that Grrm actually might be going for a Jon/Arya endgame. And I know what you mean, it's hard to get a serious discussion about this topic without the same "that doesn't mean they're going to be in love"-agrument repeated x100. It's fine tough, people can have their own opinion, because it's just a opinion. No one here knows what is going to happen in the next books.

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Your passive aggressiveness is childish.

There is so much on that outline that changed, that George admitted to changing because he took two years off between starting with 200 pages and then continuing on. People were invented, storylines dropped or drastically altered, etc. But you want to glom on to something that was never specified. The ending was blacked out. Seriously, you can't compare the outline to what the books have shown readers now. Hardly anything. George took incest away from the Starks and Cersei was invented to show incest is bad and only results in monsters. And don't try the "stark grandparents were cousins" thing because again, you are not looking at the whole picture and are cherry picking to try and force an ending into your own personal wishes. The Stark grandparents were an arranged marriage and they were cousins, once removed. Seriously, there were three other bloodlines introduced between the generations.  At that point they shared far less "blood" than Jon and Arya do.

And what does George do to drive the no Stark incest point in??? Why, he gives us Ygritte to explain to readers that you don't pick from your own village and according to the old gods, of which young Arya is part of, incest and is wrong. Why do you constantly want Arya to go against her own family beliefs and her own religion for your own fantasy? What, do you want her to be a traitor or something? Arya is not a traitor to her family and I don't see why you keeping wishing that on her.

Jon thinks about/talks about Robb through all of the books more than twice as often as he does Arya. He wants to be like Robb in many cases. He talks about Robb to other people, but he doesn't with Arya. Jon thinks about all of his family. Robb and Jon have the same "ending". How come you are not shipping those two together in a bittersweet, lost love ending?

This is your interpertation though, and everytime someone brings up Jon/Arya you keep repeating this like it's a fact and we shouldn't talk about it anymore. I think Val's purpous in the story (along with Melisandre) is for Jon's ressurection, and I don't think she'll have any more impact after that. But I don't feel the need to point that out everytime you post about Jon/Val. 

And what someone wants with a character is different of what someone think is going to happen based on the text. You may not interpret the text that way, but that doesn't make it more invalid then other theories here.