If Jon becomes King , who will be his Queen ?

[kissdbyfire]

56 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

I seem to recall something similar, but haven't been able to find it yet - only those ones that say that we'll learn.  Please post if you do find it.

Your wish is my command!  (I'm sure there is at least one more interview/SSM/whathaveyou where he talks about this also, giving the same answer)

http://archive.is/agcXt

First, let me just say that I love ASOIAF.  I am eagerly awaiting the next book, but I fill my time with, amongst other things, re-reading each one so I pretty well have them memorized.  

 

I have a million questions, but the one that I really am most wanting to know is .... will Jon ever find out about  his parentage? 

 

Eventually, yes.

 

 

[Ser Quork]

8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Your wish is my command!  (I'm sure there is at least one more interview/SSM/whathaveyou where he talks about this also, giving the same answer)

http://archive.is/agcXt

First, let me just say that I love ASOIAF.  I am eagerly awaiting the next book, but I fill my time with, amongst other things, re-reading each one so I pretty well have them memorized.  

 

I have a million questions, but the one that I really am most wanting to know is .... will Jon ever find out about  his parentage? 

 

Eventually, yes.

 

 

 

Thank you!

Therefore, I amend my post as follows:

On 7/11/2016 at 11:02 AM, Ser Quork said:

This is pretty much how I've thought it will work, especially if Jon has died and is resurrected, making him a religious abomination and probably subjected to all manner of unfavourable reactions from the living.  At this stage, I thought he would be the one to go North to battle the Others, all the more tragic because he may have the hidden birthright to the Iron Throne that would never be fulfilled and, perhaps he may never even know who his parents truly were even  when he finds out, he will still do "what is right."  

[Stormourne]

1 hour ago, khal drogon said:

Please. Don't want Dany with this guy. 

If he becomes king maybe Sansa. Because George originally planned Starkcest and Jon's parentage is a mean for that to be okay. Jon Arya would be creepy for the brother sister thing but Sansa seems okay.

Sansa would be okay, but not Arya? One would be creepy while the other not? The contradiction here is astonishing. Great job.

[khal drogon]

9 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Sansa would be okay, but not Arya? One would be creepy while the other not? The contradiction here is astonishing. Great job.

Because they were never close will make it less creepy.

 I don't even find incest creepy with all these weird relationships in the books, but Jon/Arya gives me that creepy vibe. It's not really a contradiction but a matter of preference. I became ready for a Jon/Stark sister relationship because of George's original plan, so here I hope it is Sansa better than Arya.

[Lady Valicious]

I think he dies at the end to save the world from the WW, so he will never rule. But as some others think, he will be with Dany and ride with her on one of the dragons (before being spooked when he'll discover he was sleeping with his aunt lol).

IMHO we're having Azor Ahai reversed. The original one had to thrust his sword in his wife to finalize Lightbringer and defeat the Others, Jon will sacrifice himself with one of the dragons so that Dany can win and destroy the White Walkers.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

I can imagine Jon marrying for political reasons.

If R+L=J is indeed true, there will be questions on whether or not Jon is legitimate. Of course, Rhaegar marrying Lyanna before Jon was born wouldn't be strange, as he wouldn't be the first Targaryen to take more than one wife ( i.e. Aegon, Maegor), but I think people would question whether or not he would be Rhaegar's legitimate son, as there probably wouldn't be a witness to this ceremony.

And if he is Rhaegar's legitimate son with a living witness to the wedding/marriage, would he inherit Winterfell or the Iron Throne?

Since he would be the son of Lyanna, there are inheritance problems regarding Winterfell:

I can't remember whether it was Little Walder or Big Walder who said the following, but: "The sons of the first son come before the second son."

Lyanna, being not only Ned's younger sister but also a woman, being Jon's mother means that he can't inherit, as Ned's children come before Lyanna's.

We know Bran is north of the Wall and Rickon is on Skagos, but either of them could return at any time and lay claim to Winterfell. Should they both die or just simply not return, Sansa is the one who is going to inherit Winterfell, being Ned's oldest daughter. Alys Karstark was almost forced into marriage to her cousin so he could become Lord of Karhold through her, which gives me the impression that should the first son fail to have any sons, but still have daughters, those daughters will inherit the lands before the second son and his sons.

Isn't that how the laws of inheritance work? "The sons of the first son", "boys before girls" and "daughters of the first son before their male cousins" in the simplest term?

As for the Iron Throne, Dany is going to be the problem:

Dany has been through a lot:

- She was forced into marriage by her brother to Khal Drogo

- She had a miscarriage and had to kill her own husband

- Went through the Red Waste

- Went to the house of the Undying

- Conquered three cities in Slaver's Bay

- Fighting against the Sons of the Harpy

- And is, as of right now for all we know, most likely on her way to Vaes Dothrak

These things are only the major things she's gone through that I can think about on the top of my head. There is also her entire childhood with Viserys.

Dany has been through a lot and she is determined to get the Iron Throne, and I don't think she will be enthused to have the throne taken from her by a nephew with questionable legitimacy whom she has never even heard of. She might even start a war over it and she far outnumbers him in arms.

She has:

 - Approximately 8000 Unsullied

- The Stormcrows

- The Second Sons

- The Mother's Men, the Free Brothers and the Stalwart Shields (all former by her with freed men)

- 3 dragons

 

If the show is right she will also have:

- A large Dothraki Army

- The Iron Fleet (highly unlikely)

Should Dany and Jon go to war over the Iron Throne, which I consider very unlikely, Dany will mos definitely win.

 

I like the idea of Jon marrying Val, but it won't be a good political choice, since she won't be a peace-weaver because the Free Folk follow whomever they want and don't care about their leader's ancestors or their descendants, or even their current living relatives.

 

So that is my speculation:

Sansa for Winterfell (purely political)

or

Dany for the Iron Throne, a marriage that may not even happen (I do, however, like the idea of Dany making Jon her heir, should she fail to conceive a child for herself.)

[Stormourne]

6 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I can imagine Jon marrying for political reasons.

If R+L=J is indeed true, there will be questions on whether or not Jon is legitimate. Of course, Rhaegar marrying Lyanna before Jon was born wouldn't be strange, as he wouldn't be the first Targaryen to take more than one wife ( i.e. Aegon, Maegor), but I think people would question whether or not he would be Rhaegar's legitimate son, as there probably wouldn't be a witness to this ceremony.

And if he is Rhaegar's legitimate son with a living witness to the wedding/marriage, would he inherit Winterfell or the Iron Throne?

Since he would be the son of Lyanna, there are inheritance problems regarding Winterfell:

I can't remember whether it was Little Walder or Big Walder who said the following, but: "The sons of the first son come before the second son."

Lyanna, being not only Ned's younger sister but also a woman, being Jon's mother means that he can't inherit, as Ned's children come before Lyanna's.

We know Bran is north of the Wall and Rickon is on Skagos, but either of them could return at any time and lay claim to Winterfell. Should they both die or just simply not return, Sansa is the one who is going to inherit Winterfell, being Ned's oldest daughter. Alys Karstark was almost forced into marriage to her cousin so he could become Lord of Karhold through her, which gives me the impression that should the first son fail to have any sons, but still have daughters, those daughters will inherit the lands before the second son and his sons.

Isn't that how the laws of inheritance work? "The sons of the first son", "boys before girls" and "daughters of the first son before their male cousins" in the simplest term?

As for the Iron Throne, Dany is going to be the problem:

Dany has been through a lot:

- She was forced into marriage by her brother to Khal Drogo

- She had a miscarriage and had to kill her own husband

- Went through the Red Waste

- Went to the house of the Undying

- Conquered three cities in Slaver's Bay

- Fighting against the Sons of the Harpy

- And is, as of right now for all we know, most likely on her way to Vaes Dothrak

These things are only the major things she's gone through that I can think about on the top of my head. There is also her entire childhood with Viserys.

Dany has been through a lot and she is determined to get the Iron Throne, and I don't think she will be enthused to have the throne taken from her by a nephew with questionable legitimacy whom she has never even heard of. She might even start a war over it and she far outnumbers him in arms.

She has:

 - Approximately 8000 Unsullied

- The Stormcrows

- The Second Sons

- The Mother's Men, the Free Brothers and the Stalwart Shields (all former by her with freed men)

- 3 dragons

 

If the show is right she will also have:

- A large Dothraki Army

- The Iron Fleet (highly unlikely)

Should Dany and Jon go to war over the Iron Throne, which I consider very unlikely, Dany will mos definitely win.

 

I like the idea of Jon marrying Val, but it won't be a good political choice, since she won't be a peace-weaver because the Free Folk follow whomever they want and don't care about their leader's ancestors or their descendants, or even their current living relatives.

 

So that is my speculation:

Sansa for Winterfell (purely political)

or

Dany for the Iron Throne, a marriage that may not even happen (I do, however, like the idea of Dany making Jon her heir, should she fail to conceive a child for herself.)

If Jon is forced to marry one of his cousins (R+L=J) then Sansa would not be the wisest choice. She was betrothed to one Lannister and married off to another. Westeros most likely believes said marriage was consumated. No matter how hard she denies, the stain will haunt her forever. And it seems like she's going to marry Harry the heir who might become the next lord of the Vale should LF's plan work out. Sansa has to much baggage. Marrying an unspoiled Stark would be a much more valid option for Jon Snow/Targaryen. This is hypothetical of course, and assumes that Jon would have to marry his cousin in order to unify a northern independence? Or something. I don't know. But regardless, Sansa has to much baggage.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Against Starkcest or Dany.

Starkcest for the obvious reasons. It destroys his relationship with them as siblings. I don't want him to screw/marry his sister. And yes they are his sisters due to their history, regardless of biology.

 

Dany because I find them hooking up as too cliche, I don't want them to join forces. I want each to be an independent force with their own army, followers, and agenda doing their own thing. I also find that it makes the world feel too small when two of the most important characters with some important world changing prophecies involving them, get united, instead of finding someone else. In this case, I don't actually care about Dany being his aunt.

 

I don't really care about picking someone else, I am fine with other ideas if they work well, but firmly against Dany or Arya, Sansa being Jon's queen.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

4 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

If Jon is forced to marry one of his cousins (R+L=J) then Sansa would not be the wisest choice. She was betrothed to one Lannister and married off to another. Westeros most likely believes said marriage was consumated. No matter how hard she denies, the stain will haunt her forever. And it seems like she's going to marry Harry the heir who might become the next lord of the Vale should LF's plan work out. Sansa has to much baggage. Marrying an unspoiled Stark would be a much more valid option for Jon Snow/Targaryen. This is hypothetical of course, and assumes that Jon would have to marry his cousin in order to unify a northern independence? Or something. I don't know. But regardless, Sansa has to much baggage.

I'm not quite sure about you, but I don't think that will be too big a problem.

Multiple women in Westeros were widows who remarried, and some had children from their first marriage. Margaery was married and widowed two times before she married Tommen, but we know neither marriage consummated.

Sansa was betrothed to Joffrey, but he was the one who put her aside. We know that betrothals can be broken at any time, although it is very disrespectful towards the woman and her family, but we have never been given the impression that it "taints" the woman.

If Tyrion should make it back to Westeros alive and meet Sansa, I believe he would openly say that he never consummated their marriage. Considering that he has been known to frequently visit prostitutes, the rumour of impotence is not going to harm him in the least.

As for Sansa marrying Harry the Heir, that is an obstacle I didn't consider.

 

Sansa, even with all her baggage, is still the heiress to Winterfell, since most people think that Bran and Rickon are dead. If Arya should return, she will only be second in line to Winterfell, so there isn't much to gain from marrying her.

But it is the difference between Sansa and Arya that I think would determine whether or not Jon would marry them. Sansa has always taken after Catelyn and saw that she treated him with slight disdain, so Sansa took after her in behaviour. She didn't treat him badly by any means, but she made it very clear that to her, he was just her bastard half-brother.

Arya on the other hand, treated Jon like he was her brother. She has never really called him her half-brother, but in the House of Black and White, when asked how many brothers she has, she answers four, in which the old man tells her that she's lying, so she corrects herself and says three brothers and a half-brother.

Arya and Jon love one another like they are siblings, and even if they find out that they are actually cousins, I believe they will still be as close as siblings and will be horrified at the thought of marrying on another.

[kissdbyfire]

18 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I'm not quite sure about you, but I don't think that will be too big a problem.

Multiple women in Westeros were widows who remarried, and some had children from their first marriage. Margaery was married and widowed two times before she married Tommen, but we know neither marriage consummated.

Sansa was betrothed to Joffrey, but he was the one who put her aside. We know that betrothals can be broken at any time, although it is very disrespectful towards the woman and her family, but we have never been given the impression that it "taints" the woman.

If Tyrion should make it back to Westeros alive and meet Sansa, I believe he would openly say that he never consummated their marriage. Considering that he has been known to frequently visit prostitutes, the rumour of impotence is not going to harm him in the least.

As for Sansa marrying Harry the Heir, that is an obstacle I didn't consider.

 

Sansa, even with all her baggage, is still the heiress to Winterfell, since most people think that Bran and Rickon are dead. If Arya should return, she will only be second in line to Winterfell, so there isn't much to gain from marrying her.

But it is the difference between Sansa and Arya that I think would determine whether or not Jon would marry them. Sansa has always taken after Catelyn and saw that she treated him with slight disdain, so Sansa took after her in behaviour. She didn't treat him badly by any means, but she made it very clear that to her, he was just her bastard half-brother.

Arya on the other hand, treated Jon like he was her brother. She has never really called him her half-brother, but in the House of Black and White, when asked how many brothers she has, she answers four, in which the old man tells her that she's lying, so she corrects herself and says three brothers and a half-brother.

Arya and Jon love one another like they are siblings, and even if they find out that they are actually cousins, I believe they will still be as close as siblings and will be horrified at the thought of marrying on another.

Few people know Bran and Rickon are alive, but considering among those few are Manderly and Glover, I don't think anyone will consider Sansa the heir. And there's Robb's will, which very likely disinherited her since she was married to Tyrion at the time. And there's also Theon, who is no longer with Ramsay but with Stannis. 

[Vaedys Targaryen]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Few people know Bran and Rickon are alive, but considering among those few are Manderly and Glover, I don't think anyone will consider Sansa the heir. And there's Robb's will, which very likely disinherited her since she was married to Tyrion at the time. And there's also Theon, who is no longer with Ramsay but with Stannis. 

Thank you, I had completely forgotten about Robb's will.

I will reconsider my previous statement regarding Jon's marriage to Sansa in order to inherit Winterfell.

[GhostNymeria]

15 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Sansa, even with all her baggage, is still the heiress to Winterfell, since most people think that Bran and Rickon are dead. If Arya should return, she will only be second in line to Winterfell, so there isn't much to gain from marrying her.

But it is the difference between Sansa and Arya that I think would determine whether or not Jon would marry them. Sansa has always taken after Catelyn and saw that she treated him with slight disdain, so Sansa took after her in behaviour. She didn't treat him badly by any means, but she made it very clear that to her, he was just her bastard half-brother.

Arya on the other hand, treated Jon like he was her brother. She has never really called him her half-brother, but in the House of Black and White, when asked how many brothers she has, she answers four, in which the old man tells her that she's lying, so she corrects herself and says three brothers and a half-brother.

Arya and Jon love one another like they are siblings, and even if they find out that they are actually cousins, I believe they will still be as close as siblings and will be horrified at the thought of marrying on another.

If Robb's will comes back and becomes significant, then Sansa was disinherited which would mean both Jon and Arya comes before her. And before anyone says that we dont know if Robb actually did it, yes he did. Because preventing the Lannisters and Tyrion to have a claim on Winterfell through Sansa was the sole reason he wrote the will in the first place. If he didn't disinherit her, then writing the will would be pointless from Robb's perspective.

As for Jon and Arya being to sibling like: in the first book when GRRM was still planning Jon/Arya, they were still very close as siblings. So GRRM chose to have them have the closest relationship of the family despite planning a future romance, back then. So Jon and Arya being close as siblings isn't an obstacle for GRRM, only for some readers and posters here And as for Jon and Arya being horrified at the though of a marriage, yes they would, but yet again, according to the original outline, GRRM was actually planning on having them being horrified by their feelings. So again, Jon and Arya being horrified is not an obstacle for GRRM, in fact he was actually planning on writing it that way.

So the whole "Sansa/Jon is now more likely because they were never close" isn't based on the outline or something GRRM actually have written, only on some readers perception that it would be less gross and uncomfortable for them than with Jon/Arya. And GRRM doesn't care about that.

[spauldo17]

I can't imagine Jon marrying Sansa.  With all of the anti-incest stuff going around westeros because of Jaime and Cersei it wouldn't make sense for this to happen.  I get they aren't directly brother and sister, but they are close enough.   Besides, Jon seems too honorable for that, he may not take a wife at all.  He seems like the type who would eschew the political game and marry for love or not at all

[kissdbyfire]

Well, Martin doesn't care about the outline either, since he was making shit up just b/c the publishers wanted an outline.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

4 hours ago, spauldo17 said:

I can't imagine Jon marrying Sansa.  With all of the anti-incest stuff going around westeros because of Jaime and Cersei it wouldn't make sense for this to happen.  I get they aren't directly brother and sister, but they are close enough.   Besides, Jon seems too honorable for that, he may not take a wife at all.  He seems like the type who would eschew the political game and marry for love or not at all

While I no longer think Jon would marry Sansa or Arya, Westeros does not consider marriage between cousins a problem. By looking at certain family trees and even current characters, we've seen time and time again that people did marry their 1st cousin and no one had any problems with it (Tywin and Joanna, Rickon Stark and Lyarra Stark (2nd cousin once removed, but still)).

[kissdbyfire]

15 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

While I no longer think Jon would marry Sansa or Arya, Westeros does not consider marriage between cousins a problem. By looking at certain family trees and even current characters, we've seen time and time again that people did marry their 1st cousin and no one had any problems with it (Tywin and Joanna, Rickon Stark and Lyarra Stark (2nd cousin once removed, but still)).

But with Jon and Arya/Sansa the issue is not so much that they're cousins but rather that they grew up as siblings, and saw each other as siblings all their lives. 

[Vaedys Targaryen]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

But with Jon and Arya/Sansa the issue is not so much that they're cousins but rather that they grew up as siblings, and saw each other as siblings all their lives. 

True, but the laws of Westeros don't consider that.

Your upbringing doesn't really matter. Regardless of whom you grew up with, cousin or even aunt/uncle, if you're told to marry them, you do. Such is arranged marriage.

[The Fattest Leech]

36 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

While I no longer think Jon would marry Sansa or Arya, Westeros does not consider marriage between cousins a problem. By looking at certain family trees and even current characters, we've seen time and time again that people did marry their 1st cousin and no one had any problems with it (Tywin and Joanna, Rickon Stark and Lyarra Stark (2nd cousin once removed, but still)).

Just like Ned will always be Jon's father, Sansa and Arya will always be his sisters. And Robb, Bran and Rickon will always be his brothers. 

As Ygritte taught Jon, a man doesn't chose a wife from his own village. Doing so is along the lines of abomination. 

[kissdbyfire]

6 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

True, but the laws of Westeros don't consider that.

Your upbringing doesn't really matter. Regardless of whom you grew up with, cousin or even aunt/uncle, if you're told to marry them, you do. Such is arranged marriage.

Well, bugger the laws of Westeros, I'm saying they wouldn't go for it, arranged marriage or not. 

5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Just like Ned will always be Jon's father, Sansa and Arya will always be his sisters. And Robb, Bran and Rickon will always be his brothers. 

As Ygritte taught Jon, a man doesn't chose a wife from his own village. Doing so is along the lines of abomination.

Exactly! 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

I actually sense that Dany/Jon might actually happen not because of love but because of political reasons