Is the Hooded Man actually The Hooded Man?

[gregg22]

ACOK Arya VIII

"Behind the Lannisters came their great lords and captains. Their banners flared and flapped, a pageant of color: red ox and golden mountain, purple unicorn and bantam rooster, brindled boar and badger, a silver ferret and a juggler in motley, stars and sunbursts, peacock and panther, chevron and dagger, black hood and blue beetle and green arrow."

That was Arya watching the Lannister army leave Harrenhal. The black hood she sees is the sigil of House Banefort, a black hooded man on grey field. The Hooded Man was from the age of heros and house Banefort descends from him. The current Lord is Quenten Banefort.

So it made me think, could this be a clue as to the Hooded Man in Winterfell?  I know I have seen some (very few) theories that Jamie is the Hooded Man. To play off that, what if Jamie sent the Hooded Man?

Jamie does consider Quenten Banefort when he sees him in the honor guard escorting Tywin body:

AFFC Jamie II

'Lord Jast was armored in black steel, three gold lion's heads inlaid on his breastplate. The rumors of his death had not been far wrong, to look at him; wounds and imprisonment had left him a shadow of the man he'd been. Lord Banefort had weathered battle better, and looked ready to return to war at once. "

Still, I dismissed it as a coincidence, because Banefort is such a minor character, and Theon seemed to know the Hooded Man. It was in the back of my mind, because of that sigil being so exact. But then I found some evidence that Theon had met Quenten Banefort:

AGOT Catelyn X

"But such a battle!" said Theon Greyjoy eagerly. "My lady, the realm has not seen such a victory since the Field of Fire. I vow, the Lannisters lost ten men for every one of ours that fell. We've taken close to a hundred knights captive, and a dozen lords bannermen. Lord Westerling, Lord Banefort, Ser Garth Greenfield, Lord Estren, Ser Tytos Brax, Mallor the Dornishman… "

So granted, not a ton there evidence wise. However since we have a mystery Hooded Man, and a sigil with a Hooded Man, for a house that descends from an ancient hero named the Hooded Man, it's tough to ignore a possible link here.

 

 

 

 

[Curled Finger]

Now that's a fun thing I never caught and don't believe I've EVER read it either.   Good job, Man. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

It's 1 of those things that is an interesting find and impossible to disprove but just doesn't add up.  There is no reason for Jaime to be in WF, or to have sent anyone.

[gregg22]

8 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

It's 1 of those things that is an interesting find and impossible to disprove but just doesn't add up.  There is no reason for Jaime to be in WF, or to have sent anyone.

Yes I agree, there would need to be more revealed to give Jamie a motivation. Though it could be connected to a certain oath.

[Nittanian]

FYI, Theon never refers to the person at Winterfell as the "Hooded Man", a fan-given name ("Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him").

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

FYI, Theon never refers to the person at Winterfell as the "Hooded Man", a fan-given name ("Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him").

This. We don't even know if thE man was wearing the hood over his head. 

[Jon Fossoway]

Interesting catch but it just doesn't add up.

I guess we'll add him to the list of possible hooded men.

- Theon himself, having a breakdown.

- Mors Umber, who probably know Theon by name or gossip and also wears a hood of sorts (the bear head). Points against him is that he's described as huge and old and Theon doesn't give us a physical description. If I see a large old man with a bear head over his own head I would remember that.

- Hallis Mollen seems like the big posibility. He's known to state the obvious and the first thing he says to Theon is stating that he's a turncloak and a traitor. Duh. Points against him is that Hallis know Theon and viceversa and there's no really a reason for Theon to not recognize a guy who worked as captain of guards in the castle he grew in.

[gregg22]

5 hours ago, Nittanian said:

FYI, Theon never refers to the person at Winterfell as the "Hooded Man", a fan-given name ("Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him").

 

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

This. We don't even know if thE man was wearing the hood over his head. 

This is true, I'm aware that Hooded Man in Winterfell is a fan given name. However, it pretty safe to assume the hood was on his head. Otherwise, Theon likely would not take note of the hood. GRRM is obviously trying to convey a shadowy, sneaky figure here. If he meant for the hood to be off, then he failed in characterizing this person to readers, which is not likely.

[HallowedMarcus]

While at the end i does not add up you showed the coincidences that has until now been overlooked about the called Hooded Man.

Nice One.

[StarkofWinterfell]

No one else out of the millions who have read the book has caught this. You could be onto something.

Good job, mate!

[AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy]

5 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

- Hallis Mollen seems like the big posibility. He's known to state the obvious and the first thing he says to Theon is stating that he's a turncloak and a traitor. Duh. Points against him is that Hallis know Theon and viceversa and there's no really a reason for Theon to not recognize a guy who worked as captain of guards in the castle he grew in.

I got the sense that Theon did recognize him but was surprised he was alive. Which is why Hallis would make sense. Hallis may have been in Theon's dead supper dream depending on how you interpret the last fragment: "... Hullen the master of horse, and all the others who had ridden south to Kings Landing to never return."

And the name of the chapter is the Ghost in Winterfell. So I think Theon thought Hallis died in KL or in search of the Mountain if he knew about that

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, gregg22 said:

 

This is true, I'm aware that Hooded Man in Winterfell is a fan given name. However, it pretty safe to assume the hood was on his head. Otherwise, Theon likely would not take note of the hood. GRRM is obviously trying to convey a shadowy, sneaky figure here. If he meant for the hood to be off, then he failed in characterizing this person to readers, which is not likely.

Please point out the text The George is employing to convey a shadowy, sneaky figure...

Quote

 

Outside the snow was coming down so heavily that Theon could not see more than three feet ahead of him. He found himself alone in a white wilderness, walls of snow looming up to either side of him chest high. When he raised his head, the snowflakes brushed his cheeks like cold soft kisses. He could hear the sound of music from the hall behind him. A soft song now, and sad. For a moment he felt almost at peace.

Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger. “Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer.”

“I’m not. I never … I was ironborn.”

“False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?”

“The gods are not done with me,” Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick’s cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell’s groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. “Lord Ramsay is not done with me.”

The man looked, and laughed. “I leave you to him, then.”

 

 

[Jon Fossoway]

Well, Theon barely looked at him. Wether he felt utterly ashamed by recognizing Hallis/Mors/Quenten/Himself but not acknowledged him or he was so overwhelmed by the previous feast so he didn't looked at him (I remember that the feast went badly for him)... Well, George did a nice work there.

[SerLinginBerry]

Black Hood, Blue Beetle, and Green Arrow are all nods to DC Comics characters.

Martin also makes references to the 3 Stooges, Pots calling kettles black, and types of cheeses in the forms of titles and family names. I think this is just another fun Easter egg.

[Lost Melnibonean]

6 hours ago, SerLinginBerry said:

Black Hood, Blue Beetle, and Green Arrow are all nods to DC Comics characters.

Martin also makes references to the 3 Stooges, Pots calling kettles black, and types of cheeses in the forms of titles and family names. I think this is just another fun Easter egg.

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black.” 

in late 2013, we learned the full title of the Dance of the Dragons novella: The Princess and the Queen, or, the Blacks and the Greens.

Well, there is an SSM somewhere indicating that we will see a second Dance of Dragons. Aegon was the leader of the greens in the first Dance of Dragons, so it stands to reason that our Aegon, assuming he will "dance" with Daenerys, can be associated with green.

And, well, um... the babe was the leader of the blacks, right? So it stands to reason that our babe, the hot chick on the black dragon, can be associated with black. If you search a bit, you'll find all kinds of green and black contrasts and combinations throughout ASOIAF. Perhaps it's nothing more than coincidence, but I highly doubt that. There was a reason for all those green and black color references.

Oh, and we already knew about Jon being the blue flower, right?

"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness."

Here's my favorite, and it has the blue, too... As Daenerys enters Qarth, she passes under an arch of green, black, and blue snakes...

"All the colors that had been missing from Vaes Tolorro had found their way to Qarth; buildings crowded about her fantastical as a fever dream in shades of rose, violet, and umber. She passed under a bronze arch fashioned in the likeness of two snakesmating, their scales delicate flakes of jade, obsidian, and lapis lazuli."

And dig Lords Grover, Elmo and Kermit Tully. We still have the blue and the green, but notice that black has been replaced by red. It still fits with Daenerys, who is the red dragon. What color are the forks of the Trident? 

I think there might be even more red and black combinations in the text than black and green. Well, when we see black and green we can imagine the Second Dance of the Dragons and Daenerys and Aegon, and we we see red and black we know that Daenerys the red dragon will be fighting the black dragon, Aegon. 

[gregg22]

23 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Please point out the text The George is employing to convey a shadowy, sneaky figure...

 

Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick’s cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell’s groom off the battlements.

He thinks he might be "the night Walker". I just get the impression that this is a shadowy figure, but that just me.

Also, the chapter is called A Ghost in Winterfell.

Also, earlier in the chapter, Theon compares this situation to when he was holding Winterfell,  "another Reek' (Ramsay) was secretly present. He thinks, "Reek, rhymes with sneak"

[Lost Melnibonean]

39 minutes ago, gregg22 said:

Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick’s cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell’s groom off the battlements.

He thinks he might be "the night Walker". I just get the impression that this is a shadowy figure, but that just me.

Also, the chapter is called A Ghost in Winterfell.

Also, earlier in the chapter, Theon compares this situation to when he was holding Winterfell,  "another Reek' (Ramsay) was secretly present. He thinks, "Reek, rhymes with sneak"

But the hooded man, who might or might not have been wearing a hood, and might have been the ghost of Theon's former self, was not the night walker. The night walkers were Able's washer women. 

[M_Tootles]

On 7/3/2016 at 9:37 PM, gregg22 said:

So granted, not a ton there evidence wise. However since we have a mystery Hooded Man, and a sigil with a Hooded Man, for a house that descends from an ancient hero named the Hooded Man, it's tough to ignore a possible link here.

You should search around for mentions of house banefort and the hooded mention -- i know i've read an associational post about it before that was really cool, albeit non-conclusive, linking it to the Faceless Men and such.

Anyway, I really, really think it's Mors Umber, glamored using Mance's ruby, per cantuse. Check out his blog if you haven't.

[gregg22]

10 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But the hooded man, who might or might not have been wearing a hood, and might have been the ghost of Theon's former self, was not the night walker. The night walkers were Able's washer women. 

But at the time, Theon thinks he could be. Its only later that he concludes it was Abel's girls. It still doesn't mean that the Hooded / Unhooded Man wasn't involved. (Though it likely wasn't Abel/ Mance as Theon hears music from the hall at the time.) The guy did reach for his dagger.

If the author didn't intend to shroud this person in mystery, then why didn't Theon name him? If you read the chapter, everyone else that speaks, everyone he passes, every conversation her hears, Theon somehow identifies the persons. Most he doesn't know names of, but takes note of their sigils or which house they are from.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, gregg22 said:

But at the time, Theon thinks he could be. Its only later that he concludes it was Abel's girls. It still doesn't mean that the Hooded / Unhooded Man wasn't involved. (Though it likely wasn't Abel/ Mance as Theon hears music from the hall at the time.) The guy did reach for his dagger.

If the author didn't intend to shroud this person in mystery, then why didn't Theon name him? If you read the chapter, everyone else that speaks, everyone he passes, every conversation her hears, Theon somehow identifies the persons. Most he doesn't know names of, but takes note of their sigils or which house they are from.

The author didn't name him because Theon was seeing the ghost of his former self. 

The identity will never be revealed unless GRRM does so in an SSM. The Hooded Man, who might or might not have been wearing a hood was the ghost of Reek's former self.

It is known.

First, reread the first Theon chapter in Clash. Consider the vibe about Theon at the beginning of that chapter and the vibe about the Hooded Man. By the end of that chapter his father had taken him down a peg and set him on the path of betrayal.

From A Ghost in Winterfell, Dance:

Quote

 

Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger.

"Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer."

"I'm not. I never I was ironborn."

"False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?"

"The gods are not done with me," Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick's cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell's groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. "Lord Ramsay is not done with me."

The man looked, and laughed. "I leave you to him, then."

 

Would a recognizable Glover, Mollen, or other Stark loyalist be striding around occupied Winterfell if he were striking folks down from the shadows? No this is a brave and haughty man confronting Reek face-to-face. He was wearing a hooded cloak just like Theon was at the beginning of Theon I in Clash.

Second, Mance's spearwives tacitly admitted to the killings except for Little Walder so there is no Stark loyalist sneaking around and killing Boltons and Freys.

Third, the Hooded Man is walking in the opposite direction. This is the ghost of Theon's former self. Reek's character is completely opposite to Theon's.

Fourth, Theon had sworn his allegiance to Robb and thought of Robb as a brother making Robb's brothers his own. He dreamed of wedding Sansa, becoming their brother and Ned's son in truth. Of course he betrayed Robb and held out that he had murdered his brothers. (False is all he ever was.) Accordingly his former self named him Turncloak and Kinslayer. Theon who had been chastised by his father for naming Robb a brother meekly denied the kinslaying title not because he didn't actually kill the Stark boys but because he was not actually a Stark. But the ghost of his former self knew better.

Fifth, Reek's lack of fear was odd because he had been afraid of everyone ever since he had become Reek. But he had no reason to fear his own ghost. 

Sixth, he always took care to conceal his maimed hands but to the ghost of his former self he displayed the proof that he was no longer who he had been.

Finally, consider Theon's ark and the progression of the titles of his POV chapters from Clash and through Dance. He was Theon and became Reek, until something awakened in The Prince of Winterfell. Then he was the Turncloak just as his former self accused him in the next chapter, A Ghost in Winterfell. And then he was Theon again.