How old were the dragons eggs Illyrio gave Dany?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

3 minutes ago, boojam said:

 

  Melisandre is from Asshai.

 

Except that she isn't. 

[boojam]

4 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Except that she isn't. 

Stannis brought her from Asshai .

Even if she was a slave sold in Asshai she seemed to be raised there.

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

No, She travelled herself to Dragonstone after a vision in the flames,once she arrived she gained a place in the castle via converting Selyse.  Where she decided Stannis was AAR. 

Mellisandre's chapter in ADWD gives away that she was taken from her mother and sold as a slave. It also hints that she was sold somewhere in the Volantis region, her tears were of flame, this is often taken as a clue that part of her glamour covers flame tattoo's on her cheeks depicting tears. The conclusion being that only Volantis tattoo their slaves, and that the prostitutes of the region have tears on their cheeks, Tyrion describes the facial tattoo's of two out of three of the class of slave in the Red Temple there. The Priests have flames all over their heads, the Fiery hands a hand of flame over their faces, And he tells us there are sacred prostitutes also. now if the Prostitutes of Volantis have tears and the two Red Temple slave classes we have had descriptions of all have some depiction of flames, it stands to reason that the sacred prostitutes of the temple have tears of flame. 

Mellisandre also thinks to herself. "Even before Asshai" in her POV too, again hinting she is not from there. 

And finally in the World book we discover that there are NO children in Asshai. 

Mellisandre is not from Asshai, she must have travelled there as an adult and we know she lived enough of her life before the time she went there to think of that period of her life as Before Asshai. We have the hint that she was taken as a  child and sold and that that sale was likely near to Volantis.  

No Mellisandre is not from Asshai. 

 

[boojam]

Why is she called:

—LADY MELISANDRE OF ASSHAI, called the RED WOMAN, a priestess of R’hllor, the Heart of Fire

Your not saying she was never in Asshai?

 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

No of course I am not saying she never went to Asshai, 

We can style ourselves as we chose. I for instance have a friend who is a musician and who in all interviews says he is from Manchester, he isn't. He went to college there. But from the purposes of the Music press it sounds way cooler to be from Manchester than it does to be from a small town in North Yorkshire which no one has heard of. 

Likewise I have another friend who says he is from Manchester on Facebook in his bio. He isn't he's also from our pokey little no where town. But he did live there a couple of years. Now he lives in Boro, But he prefers to style himself as a manc.

 

Mellisandre has simply used the mystery of Asshai to promote her prowess as a magical and mysterious priestess. She tells us herself that half of what she is and does is just smoke & mirrors. Stying herself as from Asshai is nothing more than more of the same. 

Also I suspect that the author wants us to think she is from Asshai, right up until in ADWD he reveals she is not.  In the same book we also get a hint that R'hllor as a god is not from there. Tyrion describes the Red Temple of Volantis in language which instantly brings the architecture of Dragonstone to mind. And again in TWOIAF it is revealed indeed that temple was created by Valyrians. And R'hllor was indeed worshipped in the Free Hold. Not THE god of Valyria. no not by any means but certainly not THE god of Asshai either.  And we also have to think carefully about those scrolls. The legend of Azor Ahai is contained on an ancient scroll in Asshai, but we learn from the world book and it is in the main books too if you read carefully. That Asshai is kinda akin to a University town for Dark magic users. They  have many, many ancient texts and the AAR prophesy is just one of that many and so again not the MAIN prophesy of the city state.  And as the clues are woven together it seems TPTWP is the same prophesy, and we know that one pertains solely to the Targaryen Dynasty of Valyria.  

Mellisandre arriving on Dragonstone, the former seat of the Targaryens latches onto Stannis as AAR, who has as we know Dragon blood a plenty. 

And back in Volantis Benerro declares Danaerys Targaryen AAR.  

[boojam]

 

3 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

No of course I am not saying she never went to Asshai, 

We can style ourselves as we chose. I for instance have a friend who is a musician and who in all interviews says he is from Manchester, he isn't. He went to college there. But from the purposes of the Music press it sounds way cooler to be from Manchester than it does to be from a small town in North Yorkshire which no one has heard of. 

Likewise I have another friend who says he is from Manchester on Facebook in his bio. He isn't he's also from our pokey little no where town. But he did live there a couple of years. Now he lives in Boro, But he prefers to style himself as a manc.

 

Mellisandre has simply used the mystery of Asshai to promote her prowess as a magical and mysterious priestess. She tells us herself that half of what she is and does is just smoke & mirrors. Stying herself as from Asshai is nothing more than more of the same. 

Also I suspect that the author wants us to think she is from Asshai, right up until in ADWD he reveals she is not.  In the same book we also get a hint that R'hllor as a god is not from there. Tyrion describes the Red Temple of Volantis in language which instantly brings the architecture of Dragonstone to mind. And again in TWOIAF it is revealed indeed that temple was created by Valyrians. And R'hllor was indeed worshipped in the Free Hold. Not THE god of Valyria. no not by any means but certainly not THE god of Asshai either.  And we also have to think carefully about those scrolls. The legend of Azor Ahai is contained on an ancient scroll in Asshai, but we learn from the world book and it is in the main books too if you read carefully. That Asshai is kinda akin to a University town for Dark magic users. They  have many, many ancient texts and the AAR prophesy is just one of that many and so again not the MAIN prophesy of the city state.  And as the clues are woven together it seems TPTWP is the same prophesy, and we know that one pertains solely to the Targaryen Dynasty of Valyria.  

Mellisandre arriving on Dragonstone, the former seat of the Targaryens latches onto Stannis as AAR, who has as we know Dragon blood a plenty. 

And back in Volantis Benerro declares Danaerys Targaryen AAR.  

Goodness !, for the time being I am going with George on the page.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

OK, so just to be clear, are you saying you believe she is from Asshai, despite the text directly contradicting that,because the Author intended to mislead the reader to think so. Or are you saying that you are going with the author who has revealed that she definitely is not from Asshai via a series of subtle and at times not so subtle clues which reveal this truth? 

[boojam]

2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

OK, so just to be clear, are you saying you believe she is from Asshai, despite the text directly contradicting that,because the Author intended to mislead the reader to think so. Or are you saying that you are going with the author who has revealed that she definitely is not from Asshai via a series of subtle and at times not so subtle clues which reveal this truth? 

 

   That GRRM intended to mislead a reader is in the eye of the beholder.

[Masha]

3 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

OK, so just to be clear, are you saying you believe she is from Asshai, despite the text directly contradicting that,because the Author intended to mislead the reader to think so. Or are you saying that you are going with the author who has revealed that she definitely is not from Asshai via a series of subtle and at times not so subtle clues which reveal this truth? 

By your definition there cannot be anyone claiming to be from Asshai. Because Asshai residents do not give birth and there are no children. You do not get to grow up there. But, we have people calling themselves "of Asshai" or "from Asshai" other than Melisandre.

So, that means, anyone who traveled even once to Asshai and lived there for shortest time in order to learn something or find something, as ALL people in Asshai do, can call himself/herself from Asshai by virtue of visiting the city-state and learning something from there.

By your own admission, Melisandre although not born or raised in Asshai, DID visit it at least once, so she definitely can call herself Melisandre of Asshai and not considered to be lying. If stupid Westeros proles assume that by calling herself "of Asshai" means born and raised there, its their misunderstanding since there are no such people. 

[TheSunspearKid]

On 7/5/2016 at 3:37 PM, a bit for joffrey said:

Illyrio gave them to her, not jorah

a lot of mystery surrounds illyrioi, varys, and all their connections and motives. i wouldnt be shocked at all if illyrio had heard the 'stone dragon' prophecy before he gave dany the eggs, as some sort of test. maybe he's given them to others who have claimed to be a targ in hiding (just my speculation). seems pointless to give such a valuable, exotic, yet pointed gift, when any valuable thing would have done. there was a reason for it.

origins? traders do go as far as ashai, someone in a position of wealth and influence like illyrio probably wouldnt have much trouble getting a hol of some 'stone eggs' if he were willing to pay.

Interesting idea on giving eggs to other characters. I wonder if faegon has an egg hidden away or if Illyrio tried and failed in hatching an egg with him when he was younger.

[The Fattest Leech]

5 hours ago, boojam said:

Stannis brought her from Asshai .

Even if she was a slave sold in Asshai she seemed to be raised there.

 

It's like a maester saying he is from the citadel, or being a brother of the nights watch. When a person goes to train to be a maester, they leave their last names behind and "assume" the identity of where they trained. 

Melisandre was not born and raised as a child in Asshai, but went there later to train to be a red priestess, and sometime along the way her name went from Melony to Melisandre, making her Melisandre of Asshai. 

 

[RumHam]

On 7/6/2016 at 7:23 AM, StarkofWinterfell said:

"Eons," I would assume, would mean they are older than the 300 year Targaryen reign. They could come from when the Targaryens were in Valyria but there is also a high probability that they are not Targaryen eggs and this would disprove the theory that only eggs from Targaryen dragons could be used by Targaryens. 

If so, that is earth-shattering.

They are Targaryen eggs. Illyrio is just full of shit. From the worldbook:

Quote

Lord Darklyn would never have dared defy him if he had been a dragonrider, Aerys reasoned. His attempts to bring forth dragons from eggs found in the depths of Dragonstone (some so old that they had turned to stone) yielded naught, however.

These eggs of course are nowhere to be found today. So what's more likely, that Illyrio spent a fortune on three eggs from Asshai for basically no reason, or that Varys smuggled the eggs out of Kings Landing during the chaos of the Sack? The ones that hadn't turned to stone are probably in those chests for "Aegon." 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

3 hours ago, boojam said:

 

   That GRRM intended to mislead a reader is in the eye of the beholder.

Really? so you don't think it is clear he introduced a character as being from a certain place, then later revealed she was in fact not from there at all. And that this is somehow disputable. Really? 

 

56 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It's like a maester saying he is from the citadel, or being a brother of the nights watch. When a person goes to train to be a maester, they leave their last names behind and "assume" the identity of where they trained. 

Melisandre was not born and raised as a child in Asshai, but went there later to train to be a red priestess, and sometime along the way her name went from Melony to Melisandre, making her Melisandre of Asshai. 

 

But Red Priests are not trained in Asshai, they are trained in the Red Temples, and some travel to Asshai to practice the more nefarious aspects of their faith. And in Mellisandre's case also it seems to gather knowledge of other useful arts such as shadow binding. 

2 hours ago, Masha said:

By your definition there cannot be anyone claiming to be from Asshai. Because Asshai residents do not give birth and there are no children. You do not get to grow up there. But, we have people calling themselves "of Asshai" or "from Asshai" other than Melisandre.

So, that means, anyone who traveled even once to Asshai and lived there for shortest time in order to learn something or find something, as ALL people in Asshai do, can call himself/herself from Asshai by virtue of visiting the city-state and learning something from there.

By your own admission, Melisandre although not born or raised in Asshai, DID visit it at least once, so she definitely can call herself Melisandre of Asshai and not considered to be lying. If stupid Westeros proles assume that by calling herself "of Asshai" means born and raised there, its their misunderstanding since there are no such people. 

This one I just raise my eyebrows at. Dear me. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

59 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It's like a maester saying he is from the citadel, or being a brother of the nights watch. When a person goes to train to be a maester, they leave their last names behind and "assume" the identity of where they trained. 

Melisandre was not born and raised as a child in Asshai, but went there later to train to be a red priestess, and sometime along the way her name went from Melony to Melisandre, making her Melisandre of Asshai. 

 

Adding in that this idea would only work IF Asshai was the Hub of the Red God and the only place people train as Red Priests. It isn't by a long chalk. And in fact there is no evidence that any red Priests actually train here, we are only told that some travel there to practice the darker aspects of their faith. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Back on topic, I agree with RumHam regarding the eggs. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

I agree with Weirwood Eyes, you are from the place you grew up/were born, not where you move to, to train.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Thanks, I'm glad some people understand what I am getting at.  

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

They are Targaryen eggs. Illyrio is just full of shit. From the worldbook:

These eggs of course are nowhere to be found today. So what's more likely, that Illyrio spent a fortune on three eggs from Asshai for basically no reason, or that Varys smuggled the eggs out of Kings Landing during the chaos of the Sack? The ones that hadn't turned to stone are probably in those chests for "Aegon." 

I knew a dude who used to trade old clothing to peseants in Honduras in exchange for gold they panned from rivers. His family were wealthy jewelers. I expect Illyrio did not have to pay nearly as much to obtain the eggs as he could have sold them for.

Until we know what happened at Summerhall, I would not assume that the Targaryen eggs we know of are still out there. 

And notice that only the eggs that were "so old" had turned to stone. Doesn't that suggest that Illyrio’s eggs were really old? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I agree with Weirwood Eyes, you are from the place you grew up/were born, not where you move to, to train.

It's all relative. I was born in A, grew up in B, lived in C, D & E for short stints, and now live in F. I have lived in F now longer than I have ever lived anywhere else. When I visit G with my immediate family, none of which are from A or B, where should I say I am "from?" 

[RumHam]

8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I knew a dude who used to trade old clothing to peseants in Honduras in exchange for gold they panned from rivers. His family were wealthy jewelers. I expect Illyrio did not have to pay nearly as much to obtain the eggs as he could have sold them for.

Until we know what happened at Summerhall, I would not assume that the Targaryen eggs we know of are still out there. 

And notice that only the eggs that were "so old" had turned to stone. Doesn't that suggest that Illyrio’s eggs were really old? 

But Illyrio didn't sell them, he gave them away when really a less magnificent bride gift would have sufficed. Especially if he really expected her to die in the Dothraki Sea. 

Anyway the eggs in question were found after Summerhall, so they wouldn't have been destroyed there. Yes I agree Illyrio's eggs were really old and would not have hatched naturally in that state. I still think they were Targaryen, as I don't buy the stories that cannibal was on Dragonstone before the Targaryens arrived. It's possible they were from some other Valyrian dragon, but I don't think it's likely. For the record I remember someone pointing out in one of these threads that fossilization can happen sooner than we tend to think under the right circumstances. 

Edit: Also from a meta perspective, what is the point of that "(some so old they had turned to stone)" parenthetical if not to suggest an origin for Daenerys's eggs?