Dany's Worst Move Yet

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

Opinions?

I have an idea of what will be #1 but I don't think it's a runaway favorite by any means

[Snowmelter]

IMHO her worst move was the detour to slavers bay; though the acquisition of the Unsullied cannot be taken lightly.  After Qarth, I don't really know what her best move would have been.

[Curled Finger]

You know, I'm torn between having a love affair with a sell sword, sending Jorah away and crucifying the Masters.   Locking the dragons up wasn't the smartest thing either, but I can't decide which was the absolute worst.  

[Snowmelter]

All of the above are terrible decisions, lol.  Poor Dany.  If she looks back she is lost.  If she goes forward.....

 

 

[marsyao]

I am Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, First of Her Name, the Unburt, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons.

Do I need to say more ?

 

[khal drogon]

19 minutes ago, marsyao said:

I am Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, First of Her Name, the Unburt, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons.

Do I need to say more ?

 

That's stupidest shit I've seen written here.

56 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

You know, I'm torn between having a love affair with a sell sword, sending Jorah away and crucifying the Masters.   Locking the dragons up wasn't the smartest thing either, but I can't decide which was the absolute worst.  

Worst move from hindsight. 

Let's see.

1. Having a love affair with a sellsword isn't going to be much of a problem for her at all. She is a powerful woman and no one's going to care about her virginity. Why that is a bad move I wonder.

2. Because we know from other POVs Jorah is clearly a loyal, devoted person with creepy tendencies and not a creepy dude who once betrayed her and want's to sleep with her at any moment. Who would really have a person around if they only know the latter? I wouldn't blame her.

3. Locking the dragons is smarter than keeping untrained dragons that will further ruin any peace they are trying too hard to keep. More burnt bones will be a PR disaster that will only strengthen the harpy's case. By locking her dragons she has only controlled damage. 

1 hour ago, Snowmelter said:

IMHO her worst move was the detour to slavers bay; though the acquisition of the Unsullied cannot be taken lightly.  After Qarth, I don't really know what her best move would have been.

Again it is blaming from hindsight. Detour to slaver's bay has actually given her power on her own. If she went to Pentos instead there is a great chance she would be married to Aegon and her dragons will be used to Illyrio's plans. By going there to acquire an army she would not be anyone's puppet. Her involvement in the Slaver's bay could have been avoided but she should be heartless if she does it.

[The Sleeper]

I don't any specific decision of Dany's is bad or good. For instance not leaving someone to rule in her name in Astapor and not sacking Yunkai are bad moves but only because she stayed in Meereen which was not the plan to begin with. Aside from moral implications, turning on the slavers of Astapor destroyed any credibility she might ever have with the majority of legitimate rulers around the world, while at the same time generates for her an enormous potential power base among the world's slaves. I find her policy decisions in Meereen generally solid and reasonable. The problem lies in her inability to set up effective administration and the resultant micromanagement. She might have been better off handing the whole mess to the Shavepate to implement her policies and deal with organizing her own forces into a coherent army. It would also lay some groundwork for when she was ready to leave to having someone behind her as regent.

It's not any particular thing but rather shifting directions and lack of planning, along with making decisions with world changing consequences with little forethought of the greater picture. These things create problems and exacerbate the ones she would be facing.

In terms of more practical decisions, leaving Drogon's lair to wander half-naked in the Dothraki Sea with no supplies was on a level of stupidity worthy of a Darwin award. Particularly considering that Drogon is his own landmark and her best chance of being found.

[khal drogon]

Daenerys has done a lot of bad moves some out of naivety, some out of compulsion and some because there is no other better choice. Some moves like not leaving an army behind in Astapor is a blunder but it became a blunder only because she chose to go in a more peaceful way later. If she had just sacked three cities taking freed slaves with her and marched west none here would have called it blunder. It could be attributed to her naivety but it still looks like a mistake designed to bite her back while she will try to rule Meereen later. The fact that even experienced men like Jorah and Barristan did not try to educate her about what will happen to the undefended city reinforces this view. Astapor is always supposed to be a mistake not only hers but to her whole team.

Yunkai is similar. It is again to show the failed strategy of leaving an enemy state intact. Her need for attacking changes with every city. Meereen is about dealing with the aftermath. By committing mistakes she is learning warfare. First thing she learns is leaving behind an undefended territory will always become chaotic. Second is leaving an enemy with strength intact will always come back for revenge. Third is people will always prefer local rulers and traditions no matter how benevolent a foreign ruler is. Three cities and three lessons. I think these three will be used to resolve Slaver's bay once Dany comes riding back with the Dothraki. These three are mistakes by design.

Then there are other decisions which are taken by her impulsiveness or lack of clear foresight an example is the crucifixion of 163 slavers instead of either killing all of them or killing only the guilty. These type of mistakes remain mistakes and these are to bring out the nuances of her character. In my opinion only these types of mistakes should be called bad moves done by person. 

I think her worst move is marrying Hizdahr. She really should have thought what implication this would have on her Westerosi campaign. She can't have a foreigner king in Westeros while she herself does not know much about Westeros. She would be thought of as a puppet and her invasion will become a foreign invasion just because of that. It is not worth it for keeping the peace of the city. She should have unleashed her inner dragon in Meereen rather than trying to stitch a fragile peace that will affect her future campaign. In my opinion this decision stands out of her other decision as a really bad move.

4 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

In terms of more practical decisions, leaving Drogon's lair to wander half-naked in the Dothraki Sea with no supplies was on a level of stupidity worthy of a Darwin award. Particularly considering that Drogon is his own landmark and her best chance of being found.

She is a mess in that last chapter. With fever and dehydration with added woes of eating poisoned berries it's very clear that she is hallucinating and is not thinking straight.

[Curled Finger]

8 hours ago, khal drogon said:

That's stupidest shit I've seen written here.

Worst move from hindsight. 

Let's see.

1. Having a love affair with a sellsword isn't going to be much of a problem for her at all. She is a powerful woman and no one's going to care about her virginity. Why that is a bad move I wonder.

2. Because we know from other POVs Jorah is clearly a loyal, devoted person with creepy tendencies and not a creepy dude who once betrayed her and want's to sleep with her at any moment. Who would really have a person around if they only know the latter? I wouldn't blame her.

3. Locking the dragons is smarter than keeping untrained dragons that will further ruin any peace they are trying too hard to keep. More burnt bones will be a PR disaster that will only strengthen the harpy's case. By locking her dragons she has only controlled damage. 

Again it is blaming from hindsight. Detour to slaver's bay has actually given her power on her own. If she went to Pentos instead there is a great chance she would be married to Aegon and her dragons will be used to Illyrio's plans. By going there to acquire an army she would not be anyone's puppet. Her involvement in the Slaver's bay could have been avoided but she should be heartless if she does it.

In that we have no night fires to gaze in all we can do is base our answers on hindsight.  Dany is an interesting character with plenty of qualities to both admire and disdain.   My answers are completely defensable as answered from my own morals and conscience. .  I get the feeling you just want to sit in judgement of others' answers rather than participate in a reasonable discussion.  I don't believe there is a right, wrong or stupid answer to an opinion question.    It would be more interesting to see your answer to the topic question than opinions on other posters answers.   

[The Sleeper]

8 minutes ago, khal drogon said:

She is a mess in that last chapter. With fever and dehydration with added woes of eating poisoned berries it's very clear that she is hallucinating and is not thinking straight.

She got in the situation because she wasn't thinking to begin with. Drogon covers an enormous area hunting and lights fires and leaves burnt patches on the ground. Her bloodriders would have good odds of spotting one of the three, eventually. Her best odds were for her to stay put where she was safe and had access to food and water. Leaving under those conditions was practically suicidal.

I disagree about marrying Hizdar. Given her desire to have peace within and without it is a sensible move. It might be argued whether peace was feasible at all at this stage. I don't imagine she had any intention of taking him along with her and in either case nobody mistook him for having the actual power.

Dany is neither stupid nor lacking in sense. What she lacks is education, experience and a template to follow. She also lacks a long term startegy apart from "get to Westeros, rule". As a result she makes it up as she goes along and more than a few of her decisions have been whimsical. On the other hand if she hadn't made some of those decisions she wouldn't have been a power.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Top 5 of Dany's worse moves;

1. Genocide.

2. Attacking Slaver’s Bay with no plan and destroying three cities along with people’s lives.

3. The wineseller’s daughters.

4. Becoming a slaver.

5. Killing MMD.

 In that order also a special mention at trusting the Harpy.

[khal drogon]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

In that we have no night fires to gaze in all we can do is base our answers on hindsight.  Dany is an interesting character with plenty of qualities to both admire and disdain.   My answers are completely defensable as answered from my own morals and conscience. .  I get the feeling you just want to sit in judgement of others' answers rather than participate in a reasonable discussion.  I don't believe there is a right, wrong or stupid answer to an opinion question.    It would be more interesting to see your answer to the topic question than opinions on other posters answers.   

I have given my opinion on this matter and engaged in the same discussion so many times. What makes you think my counterpoints are judgemental and unreasonable? I would rather expect you to answer my points for this to become a discussion than complaining about my opinion.

And also the question is about worst moves. I would say it should be based on how the move is made rather than the end result. I think what is the information she has and what are the choices there before her should be considered. Blaming in hindsight is easy. But things like how Jorah would have behaved or how dragons would have acted unchained is something unpredictable even for us readers. That's the exact reason why I am against it.

[khal drogon]

3 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

She got in the situation because she wasn't thinking to begin with. Drogon covers an enormous area hunting and lights fires and leaves burnt patches on the ground. Her bloodriders would have good odds of spotting one of the three, eventually. Her best odds were for her to stay put where she was safe and had access to food and water. Leaving under those conditions was practically suicidal.

I disagree about marrying Hizdar. Given her desire to have peace within and without it is a sensible move. It might be argued whether peace was feasible at all at this stage. I don't imagine she had any intention of taking him along with her and in either case nobody mistook him for having the actual power.

Dany is neither stupid nor lacking in sense. What she lacks is education, experience and a template to follow. She also lacks a long term startegy apart from "get to Westeros, rule". As a result she makes it up as she goes along and more than a few of her decisions have been whimsical. On the other hand if she hadn't made some of those decisions she wouldn't have been a power.

No she don't know where exactly she is in the Dothraki Sea and it is a very vast area. It is hard to find and would take a long time before her bloodriders find her if at all they didn't give up. Yes there is access to water near the dragon's lair. But it is muddy and contaminated. The food is only scraps. There is no way she would hope on living with that before she die of illness. She is already starving and her body is thinning with every day in the rock. And the chapter covers a very long time in the matter of weeks. Initially she spends her days as you said but as she spies clear water and food in the distance she moves towards it. It is not stupidity but survival instinct. Then the condition worsens as she starves and hallucinates.

Marrying Hizdahr is not worth it in my opinion. She got the peace wanted but it also means reverting the positive changes she made. She couldn't stop slave trade outside her city. Yunkai is still a slave city and Astapor destroyed. She has to reopen fighting pits and above all there is still blockade outside which is crippling her city. Her peace is an empty peace and she is trapped inside the city. Her marrying Hizdahr is the equivalent of chaining herself to the city. And she can't abandon her husband if she moved west and her having a foreign husband will cause more bad PR in the West. So yeah maybe it would worth it if she doesn't have to compromise everything she was against but I would say her nature made her to compromise.

Her lack of education is a problem but she is a quick learner and she is gaining lots of practical knowledge. Also I don't expect a long term strategy for her to what to do in Westeros while she still doesn't have enough military resources to successfully retake Westeros. There is a long way to go before she gets a proper army before she thinks about her strategy in Westeros. It took years for Aegon the conqueror to devise strategy and she is only a 16 year old. I expect a certain dwarf to aid her in strategy once she gets a feasible army. And I like it that she is portrayed as a 16 year old girl who makes mistakes and learning rather than an educated military leader getting all things right. 

[Protagoras]

Her worst move is that (until now) she hasn´t really decided what she wanted. Peace or War? Westeros or Not? She acts quick on her feet, but tactics can never replace strategy. In many instances she want to keep the cookie and eat it, and that simply do not work.

Not leaving a garrison in Astapor (or creating one later) is possibly the clearest mistake, but much is hindsight and again, some kind of strategy. She also lacks experience, but that is hardly her fault. She has also lacked good council (When the eleven-year old do the best job, you know you have a problem) - she has especially lacked a clever, realpolitical schemer who can guide her in the Mereenese jungle. That problem looks like it has been solved recently, however.

However, in general, Daenerys has done well with regards to what she has had to work with. Is like the Lord of the rings-movies. They might not be perfect, but they are still a very good filmatization.

And I also have to agree with Brown Ben. Dragons are a weapon, not something to lock up. Yes, children might die - what of it?

[Clegane'sPup]

20 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Opinions?

I have an idea of what will be #1 but I don't think it's a runaway favorite by any means

Her worst move in my opinion was when Martin had Jorah talk her into going to Slaver’s Bay instead of taking her small flying lizards on the ship that was sent for her.

All of this Meeren knot bullshit would not have happened if Dany just got her arse on da boat. But no, Martin decided that the story had to grow.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

19 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You know, I'm torn between having a love affair with a sell sword, sending Jorah away and crucifying the Masters.   Locking the dragons up wasn't the smartest thing either, but I can't decide which was the absolute worst.  

I'm interested why sending Jorah away is so high on the list? 

I thought that sword-thrust changing 2nd sons back to Dany's side (pending her approval) proved he is her man no matter what

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

9 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

In that we have no night fires to gaze in all we can do is base our answers on hindsight.  Dany is an interesting character with plenty of qualities to both admire and disdain.   My answers are completely defensable as answered from my own morals and conscience. .  I get the feeling you just want to sit in judgement of others' answers rather than participate in a reasonable discussion.  I don't believe there is a right, wrong or stupid answer to an opinion question.    It would be more interesting to see your answer to the topic question than opinions on other posters answers.   

It is known lol

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

9 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

She got in the situation because she wasn't thinking to begin with. Drogon covers an enormous area hunting and lights fires and leaves burnt patches on the ground. Her bloodriders would have good odds of spotting one of the three, eventually. Her best odds were for her to stay put where she was safe and had access to food and water. Leaving under those conditions was practically suicidal.

I disagree about marrying Hizdar. Given her desire to have peace within and without it is a sensible move. It might be argued whether peace was feasible at all at this stage. I don't imagine she had any intention of taking him along with her and in either case nobody mistook him for having the actual power.

Dany is neither stupid nor lacking in sense. What she lacks is education, experience and a template to follow. She also lacks a long term startegy apart from "get to Westeros, rule". As a result she makes it up as she goes along and more than a few of her decisions have been whimsical. On the other hand if she hadn't made some of those decisions she wouldn't have been a power.

Im with you about leaving Drogon,?I don't think she is thinking clearly. (Poison)

Do you believe she could even conquer westeros with hizdahr as a husband? And if so could she maintain her rule?

I really wanted to chime in on this, what you said is true im not debating that. But we are talking about the Iron Throne she claimed for herself, if she missteps and makes mistakes along the way.... It's still on her, once you decide to play the game you win or you.... And her education/knowledge/game plan is very very relevant. Perhaps she should start to study 

 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

7 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Top 5 of Dany's worse moves;

1. Genocide.

    

2. Attacking Slaver’s Bay with no plan and destroying three cities along with people’s lives.

    

3. The wineseller’s daughters.

    

4. Becoming a slaver.

    

5. Killing MMD.

    

 In that order also a special mention at trusting the Harpy.

 

The Aegon/Tywin topic led me here. (You)

1. Yeah people do tend to defend their home/family (even some slaves)

2. Alternative? 

3. Blank

4. Seems familiar huh?

5. Care to explain? The 3 lil devil demons coming alive?

You can't just say "the harpy" there's a (very) few plausible ideas

[The Sleeper]

16 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Im with you about leaving Drogon,?I don't think she is thinking clearly. (Poison)

Do you believe she could even conquer westeros with hizdahr as a husband? And if so could she maintain her rule?

I really wanted to chime in on this, what you said is true im not debating that. But we are talking about the Iron Throne she claimed for herself, if she missteps and makes mistakes along the way.... It's still on her, once you decide to play the game you win or you.... And her education/knowledge/game plan is very very relevant. Perhaps she should start to study 

 

She was poisoned for weeks? Doesn't work. She's hardly the survivalist type, she lost patience and had very little clue about what it takes to survive there. She might have crossed the Dothraki Sea before, but as part of a khalasar and with her own retinue.

Dany was never going to conquer Westeros by making alliances and being likeable to the status quo. Her court is comprised of the misfits and the outcasts. Her potential power base is every Dothraki, every believer of R'hlor and every slave in Essos. She's going to conquer Westeros by overwhelming force. Dany breaks the mold and makes her own rules. That's her deal.