NFL: The Politics of Superb Owls or Trumping the Fail-Cons

[Kalbear]

Never mind, the Pats are awesome

 

[sperry]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

Never mind, the Pats are awesome

 

I hope this means Goodell is going to use his commissioner's powers to have Brady beheaded at midfield.

[Rockroi]

I own one of those shirts myself.  

[lancerman]

Hall of Fame should be treated like a joke every second TO isn't in it. 

Jerry Rice

Randy Moss

Every other WR at best is a debate for the next spot with TO.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Nah, it was pretty much the not standing thing. People hate that.

Also, if I've learned one thing listening to sports radio in the Seattle area, it's this - everyone apologizes for their own team, and everyone makes big things out of everyone else's teams, and chances are good that every single NFL team has some major fuckheads who are there because they're getting paid. The Pats aren't any more evil than the Falcons save in their current political allegiance, but I'd bet strongly on Ryan being a pretty big conservative Trump supporter too. Blank is good at least, but so what? Most of the coaches almost certainly aren't. 

The more you go into the moral morass of the NFL, the less good there is to find. There aren't good guys. There are just bad guys that might be on your side for a bit.

I mean the pledge thing makes 60-70% of football fans hate him, but because he never called Trump out, the other 30-40% weren't inclined to like him either, and it didn't mollify his haters at all.

[DanteGabriel]

5 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said:

I mean the pledge thing makes 60-70% of football fans hate him, but because he never called Trump out, the other 30-40% weren't inclined to like him either, and it didn't mollify his haters at all.

Eh, I supported Kaepernick's stance but his refusal to endorse one candidate or whatever didn't really affect my opinion of anything. He thinks the system is deeply fucked. I can't disagree with him. I disagree with his moral equivalencies, but I think he's coming at it from a different place than the reflexive "both parties suck" argument that I usually just assume to be laziness and inattention.

[Jaime L]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

The more you go into the moral morass of the NFL, the less good there is to find. There aren't good guys. There are just bad guys that might be on your side for a bit.

It's crazy to me from the commissioner, to the coaches, to the players...how much more likable the NBA is than the NFL right now. Because this certainly wasn't always the case. The Post-MJ era had some of the least likable stars ever. I don't know if the NBA just got lucky or what, but it's night and day now. The article Manhole linked how each league has responded to Trump seems emblematic of this dynamic. 

Because it's true - there's not many stars in the NFL I think I would like as a human being if I knew them personally. Take your pick: Brady, Rodgers, Watt, Brown, OBJ, Big Ben etc. - would you want to hang with any of these guys? 

NBA, though, outside of a few exceptions, they come off as genuinely good dudes. And it's been that way for a decade now. All the myths we have about the character ascribed to playing each sport (that playing football builds character while basketball glorifies the individual over the team) seem precisely backwards at least in terms of the people now playing and coaching it at the highest levels.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

26 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

It's crazy to me from the commissioner, to the coaches, to the players...how much more likable the NBA is than the NFL right now. Because this certainly wasn't always the case. The Post-MJ era had some of the least likable stars ever. I don't know if the NBA just got lucky or what, but it's night and day now. The article Manhole linked how each league has responded to Trump seems emblematic of this dynamic. 

Because it's true - there's not many stars in the NFL I think I would like as a human being if I knew them personally. Take your pick: Brady, Rodgers, Watt, Brown, OBJ, Big Ben etc. - would you want to hang with any of these guys? 

NBA, though, outside of a few exceptions, they come off as genuinely good dudes. And it's been that way for a decade now. All the myths we have about the character ascribed to playing each sport (that playing football builds character while basketball glorifies the individual over the team) seem precisely backwards at least in terms of the people now playing and coaching it at the highest levels.

I think Rodger would be fun to hang out with. OBJ too, though he seems too high strung to hang out with sober.

and your forgetting Gronk. And Andy Luck, who's basically a poorly groomed neckbearded  geek who happens to be 6'4" and 230 lbs of muscle.

[sperry]

36 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

It's crazy to me from the commissioner, to the coaches, to the players...how much more likable the NBA is than the NFL right now. Because this certainly wasn't always the case. The Post-MJ era had some of the least likable stars ever. I don't know if the NBA just got lucky or what, but it's night and day now. The article Manhole linked how each league has responded to Trump seems emblematic of this dynamic. 

Because it's true - there's not many stars in the NFL I think I would like as a human being if I knew them personally. Take your pick: Brady, Rodgers, Watt, Brown, OBJ, Big Ben etc. - would you want to hang with any of these guys? 

NBA, though, outside of a few exceptions, they come off as genuinely good dudes. And it's been that way for a decade now. All the myths we have about the character ascribed to playing each sport (that playing football builds character while basketball glorifies the individual over the team) seem precisely backwards at least in terms of the people now playing and coaching it at the highest levels.

 

You see this play out in a lot of industries. The number 2 player in the space has to be more efficient, more innovative and serve their customers better than the #1 in the market. NFL is king, so they start to think they can get away with whatever they want, and start to take their customers for granted. Despite the fact that a lot of their success is due to pure dumb luck, like fantasy sports being perfectly suited to the rules of their game, or their game being so violent you can only play it once a week turning out to be a benefit not a downside.

[lancerman]

20 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

It's crazy to me from the commissioner, to the coaches, to the players...how much more likable the NBA is than the NFL right now. Because this certainly wasn't always the case. The Post-MJ era had some of the least likable stars ever. I don't know if the NBA just got lucky or what, but it's night and day now. The article Manhole linked how each league has responded to Trump seems emblematic of this dynamic. 

Because it's true - there's not many stars in the NFL I think I would like as a human being if I knew them personally. Take your pick: Brady, Rodgers, Watt, Brown, OBJ, Big Ben etc. - would you want to hang with any of these guys? 

NBA, though, outside of a few exceptions, they come off as genuinely good dudes. And it's been that way for a decade now. All the myths we have about the character ascribed to playing each sport (that playing football builds character while basketball glorifies the individual over the team) seem precisely backwards at least in terms of the people now playing and coaching it at the highest levels.

Eh depends. Alot of it's just the persona. I'll give you an example. A lot of people I know that Brady personally and players who talk about him will say he's one of the nicest guys they ever met. Peyton Manning who alot of fans like is reportedly very standoffish. 

All the guys you mentioned I think are pretty chill. I don't like guys like Talib who acts like an asshole on and off the field. 

And is far as the NBA goes, alot people hate Lebron. And he's the man. 

 

[DanteGabriel]

30 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Because it's true - there's not many stars in the NFL I think I would like as a human being if I knew them personally. Take your pick: Brady, Rodgers, Watt, Brown, OBJ, Big Ben etc. - would you want to hang with any of these guys? 

NBA, though, outside of a few exceptions, they come off as genuinely good dudes. And it's been that way for a decade now. All the myths we have about the character ascribed to playing each sport (that playing football builds character while basketball glorifies the individual over the team) seem precisely backwards at least in terms of the people now playing and coaching it at the highest levels.

I am clinging desperately to Martellus Bennett. He seems pretty awesome. Honestly if I could pick a team now just based on how much I respect the players, I might go Seahawks because of Sherman, Wilson, and Michael Bennett.

I agree with you that the NBA does seem way more likable based on the visible players and the character of the league (also helps that Donald Sterling is gone).

Regarding myth-making though... I never really bought in to the "football builds team players" thing. I'm sure it does and that a lot of kids get good lessons out of it. But football's awful underbelly has always been near the front of mind for me. The stereotype of the football player as the violent, entitled bully and rapist is too visible. Fuck, look at the dumpster fire of Baylor.

[Altherion]

They handed out the various awards today. I didn't watch it, but here's a summary:

Quote

• AP NFL Most Valuable Player Award - Matt Ryan, QB, Falcons
• AP Coach of the Year Award - Jason Garrett, Cowboys
• AP NFL Offensive Player of the Year Award - Matt Ryan, QB, Falcons
• AP NFL Defensive Player of the Year Award - Khalil Mack, LB, Raiders
• AP Offensive Rookie of the Year Award - Dak Prescott, QB, Cowboys
• AP Defensive Rookie of the Year Award - Joey Bosa, DE, Chargers
• AP Comeback Player of the Year Award - Jordy Nelson, WR, Packers

So Ryan got both MVP and Offensive Player. They did it this way last year too (Cam Newton got both), but not the year before that. The Falcons got several lesser awards (Assistant Coach, Salute to Service, FedEX Air) while the other Superb Owl team got absolutely nothing (or at least nothing listed on that page). Kind of weird given that they have the best record, but I suspect that Brady will use this to fuel tomorrow's performance -- not as an ordinary human being would, but as a Sith Lord channels hatred into Force power or as the Hulk derives his strength from anger (just kidding... or am I?).

I'm not sure what Jason Garrett did to earn the Coach award -- either of the two coaches in the upcoming game would have made more sense to me. He seems to be somebody who had two great rookies fall into his lap and made the most of them against mostly weak teams and with a few really lucky breaks against stronger ones until his luck finally ran out in the very first playoff game. Of the two Cowboys rookies, I thought that Elliot was the better one, but he did get the FedEX Ground award so he isn't walking away entirely empty-handed.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, Altherion said:

I'm not sure what Jason Garrett did to earn the Coach award -- either of the two coaches in the upcoming game would have made more sense to me. He seems to be somebody who had two great rookies fall into his lap and made the most of them against mostly weak teams and with a few really lucky breaks against stronger ones until his luck finally ran out in the very first playoff game. Of the two Cowboys rookies, I thought that Elliot was the better one, but he did get the FedEX Ground award so he isn't walking away entirely empty-handed.

 Those were the two that stood out for me. Garrett just seems so mediocre to me. I just don't see it. Either Belichick or Quinn seems like the pick there. I don't have a huge issue with Prescott, as that is the tougher position and he was a later round pick, but Elliot was more impressive methinks.

[Reny of Storms End]

6 hours ago, Joe Pesci said:

Neither, we moved a few towns over when I was in middle school due to the school district going to shit. I always remembered hearing that people said Dorsett went to Hopewell because he'd have never seen the field at Aliquippa, but that was before my time so who knows if there's any truth to it.

Before my time as well, but it would be fun to talk to someone who would know. What school did you end up at, if you don't mind me asking?

[Red Tiger]

I can't shake this nagging feeling that Legarette Blount will win it for the Pats and be the man, but Brady will get the MVP.

[Red Tiger]

13 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Nah, it was pretty much the not standing thing. People hate that.

Also, if I've learned one thing listening to sports radio in the Seattle area, it's this - everyone apologizes for their own team, and everyone makes big things out of everyone else's teams, and chances are good that every single NFL team has some major fuckheads who are there because they're getting paid. The Pats aren't any more evil than the Falcons save in their current political allegiance, but I'd bet strongly on Ryan being a pretty big conservative Trump supporter too. Blank is good at least, but so what? Most of the coaches almost certainly aren't. 

The more you go into the moral morass of the NFL, the less good there is to find. There aren't good guys. There are just bad guys that might be on your side for a bit.

Not necessarily

https://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/21/q-a-boston-college-qb-matt-ryan/?_r=0

 

[Rockroi]

3 hours ago, Jaime L said:

 

Because it's true - there's not many stars in the NFL I think I would like as a human being if I knew them personally. Take your pick: Brady, Rodgers, Watt, Brown, OBJ, Big Ben etc. - would you want to hang with any of these guys? 

NBA, though, outside of a few exceptions, they come off as genuinely good dudes. And it's been that way for a decade now. All the myths we have about the character ascribed to playing each sport (that playing football builds character while basketball glorifies the individual over the team) seem precisely backwards at least in terms of the people now playing and coaching it at the highest levels.

I don't know if we can judge people just based on the stuff we see on TV and the few things that make it through social media accounts.  Rodgers I think gets a bad rap because of everything going on with his family, but its also perfectly possible that its his family that are the jerks.  I mean, his brother was the Bachelor one season.  It could just be that Rodgers is the okay one and the rest are assholes.

JJ Watt I kind of feel might be a tool bag.  There was that "Hard Knocks" where he made sure they always filmed him doing "extra" work and you could tell the film crew attacked it with all the enthusiasm of a Pap Smear ("Yes, JJ; we got that up-close shot of you flipping the Extra-large tire... I ... I'm sorry, sir the Goodyear, Hybrid Cut, 66-inch Monster Tire... yes we got that shot..."). 

Big Ben is a rapist. 

OBJ seems like he's just high strung.  I don't know much about Brown at all other than that stuff with the post game locker room stuff.  

Brady I don't know if I would want to hang out with him but that's only because he seems like he's sort of a bore.  "Yes, Tom, I am aware you have never had a strawberry or a cup of coffee... fascinating... "  But frankly, he seems like a great person; all of his teammates love him; his coaches love him; he visited sat with Charlie Weiss in the hospital for week after Weiss' gastric bypass surgery went south and he almost died; he does a lot with Make a Wish and other charities.  Obviously, he is very close to his parents.  And while he is not married to Bridget Moynihan, they do share one child together and Moynihan as always said that Brady is an amazing father to their son.  But he owns this hat so... 

With that said there are actually a number of NFL players that I like and seem like really good people.  Frank Gore, Martellus Bennett, Larry Fitzgerald, Drew Breese, Matthew Slatter, Thomas Davis, (Olympian) Nate Ebner, Jason Witten, Anquan Boldin, have all won awards that testify to their quality of character etc,  Then there is that whole "Went-And-Died-In-A-War-He-Didn't-Even-Agree-With" thing with Pat Tillman. The coaches do seem a little less likable; Pete Carroll is probably a 9/11 Truther; Tony Dungee hates gay people; etc.  

I don't watch the NBA but a bunch of their players just seem like really good people and have for a while. I like Popavitch an awful lot but really have liked Curry, LeBron (especially since he returned to Cleveland) and Duncan even though he retired.  

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Regarding myth-making though... I never really bought in to the "football builds team players" thing. I'm sure it does and that a lot of kids get good lessons out of it. But football's awful underbelly has always been near the front of mind for me. The stereotype of the football player as the violent, entitled bully and rapist is too visible. Fuck, look at the dumpster fire of Baylor.

I can't say for certain, but I can say that I played football in high school and it was an extremely important part of my development, especially the stuff about team-work and perseverance.  The one thing I think is incredible about football is that it "takes all kinds" in terms of body type.  Basically, and while this is an overstatement, football is the only sport you can play by sheer force of will at any body type.  Hockey you have to learn to skate; baseball you have to hit or pitch a curve-ball; basketball you have to be 6 feet tall or so athletically gifted that you can make up 7 inches.  At the pro-level, you still have to be an athletic freak but even at the college level you can play football by determination and hard work.   That has always been the draw for me and football.  

I think right now we are equating "being a good person" and "didn't vote for Trump" as being pseudonymous as we are "being a bad person" and "voted for Trump."  Bob Kraft, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have all either said nice things about Trump or in Belichick's case wrote something for the candidate to say on the campaign.  And while Brady has yet to say he voted for Trump, Kraft all but endorsed the man. 

Kraft recently stated why,  HE said that in the days after his wife Myra died, Trump came to visit him and was extremely warm and caring.  Then, once a week every week for a year Trump called Kraft to see how he was doing (he started banging a woman 1/3 his age and is a billionaire- he was fine).  Now to me this does not make Trump a good person.  But I can absolutely see and understand why Bob Kraft has sincere loyalty to Trump and why he voted likely voted for him.  

Anyway, that's just the opposite view.  I still think Trump is horrifying and I am not sure if my whole family was killed in a "Hillary For President" thresher., and Donald Trump came by my house every evening to take out my trash if I could ever vote for him, but its more info for people.  

[sperry]

2 hours ago, Rockroi said:

I don't know if we can judge people just based on the stuff we see on TV and the few things that make it through social media accounts.  Rodgers I think gets a bad rap because of everything going on with his family, but its also perfectly possible that its his family that are the jerks.  I mean, his brother was the Bachelor one season.  It could just be that Rodgers is the okay one and the rest are assholes.

JJ Watt I kind of feel might be a tool bag.  There was that "Hard Knocks" where he made sure they always filmed him doing "extra" work and you could tell the film crew attacked it with all the enthusiasm of a Pap Smear ("Yes, JJ; we got that up-close shot of you flipping the Extra-large tire... I ... I'm sorry, sir the Goodyear, Hybrid Cut, 66-inch Monster Tire... yes we got that shot..."). 

Big Ben is a rapist. 

OBJ seems like he's just high strung.  I don't know much about Brown at all other than that stuff with the post game locker room stuff.  

Brady I don't know if I would want to hang out with him but that's only because he seems like he's sort of a bore.  "Yes, Tom, I am aware you have never had a strawberry or a cup of coffee... fascinating... "  But frankly, he seems like a great person; all of his teammates love him; his coaches love him; he visited sat with Charlie Weiss in the hospital for week after Weiss' gastric bypass surgery went south and he almost died; he does a lot with Make a Wish and other charities.  Obviously, he is very close to his parents.  And while he is not married to Bridget Moynihan, they do share one child together and Moynihan as always said that Brady is an amazing father to their son.  But he owns this hat so... 

With that said there are actually a number of NFL players that I like and seem like really good people.  Frank Gore, Martellus Bennett, Larry Fitzgerald, Drew Breese, Matthew Slatter, Thomas Davis, (Olympian) Nate Ebner, Jason Witten, Anquan Boldin, have all won awards that testify to their quality of character etc,  Then there is that whole "Went-And-Died-In-A-War-He-Didn't-Even-Agree-With" thing with Pat Tillman. The coaches do seem a little less likable; Pete Carroll is probably a 9/11 Truther; Tony Dungee hates gay people; etc.  

I don't watch the NBA but a bunch of their players just seem like really good people and have for a while. I like Popavitch an awful lot but really have liked Curry, LeBron (especially since he returned to Cleveland) and Duncan even though he retired.  

I can't say for certain, but I can say that I played football in high school and it was an extremely important part of my development, especially the stuff about team-work and perseverance.  The one thing I think is incredible about football is that it "takes all kinds" in terms of body type.  Basically, and while this is an overstatement, football is the only sport you can play by sheer force of will at any body type.  Hockey you have to learn to skate; baseball you have to hit or pitch a curve-ball; basketball you have to be 6 feet tall or so athletically gifted that you can make up 7 inches.  At the pro-level, you still have to be an athletic freak but even at the college level you can play football by determination and hard work.   That has always been the draw for me and football.  

I think right now we are equating "being a good person" and "didn't vote for Trump" as being pseudonymous as we are "being a bad person" and "voted for Trump."  Bob Kraft, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have all either said nice things about Trump or in Belichick's case wrote something for the candidate to say on the campaign.  And while Brady has yet to say he voted for Trump, Kraft all but endorsed the man. 

Kraft recently stated why,  HE said that in the days after his wife Myra died, Trump came to visit him and was extremely warm and caring.  Then, once a week every week for a year Trump called Kraft to see how he was doing (he started banging a woman 1/3 his age and is a billionaire- he was fine).  Now to me this does not make Trump a good person.  But I can absolutely see and understand why Bob Kraft has sincere loyalty to Trump and why he voted likely voted for him.  

Anyway, that's just the opposite view.  I still think Trump is horrifying and I am not sure if my whole family was killed in a "Hillary For President" thresher., and Donald Trump came by my house every evening to take out my trash if I could ever vote for him, but its more info for people.  

 

Weird, its almost like people are willing to overlook and/or rationalize egregious flaws to defend people they care about.

[sperry]

Wow, next year's HOF class is insane.  Randy Moss, Ray Lewis (murdering aside), Brian Urlacher and Ronde Barber all eligible for the first time. TO is probably going to have to wait another year.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 hours ago, Rockroi said:

I think right now we are equating "being a good person" and "didn't vote for Trump" as being pseudonymous as we are "being a bad person" and "voted for Trump."  Bob Kraft, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have all either said nice things about Trump or in Belichick's case wrote something for the candidate to say on the campaign.  And while Brady has yet to say he voted for Trump, Kraft all but endorsed the man. 

Kraft recently stated why,  HE said that in the days after his wife Myra died, Trump came to visit him and was extremely warm and caring.  Then, once a week every week for a year Trump called Kraft to see how he was doing (he started banging a woman 1/3 his age and is a billionaire- he was fine).  Now to me this does not make Trump a good person.  But I can absolutely see and understand why Bob Kraft has sincere loyalty to Trump and why he voted likely voted for him.  

Anyway, that's just the opposite view.  I still think Trump is horrifying and I am not sure if my whole family was killed in a "Hillary For President" thresher., and Donald Trump came by my house every evening to take out my trash if I could ever vote for him, but its more info for people.  

 Yeah, I think we kind of went over this before. I agree that it's not black and white, and at the end of the day I don't have any business judging others too harshly over who they voted for.

 As a Pats hater, I'm always looking for reasons to dislike this team. That said, I think this is a pretty good reason. Trump is pretty goddamned despicable, and any positive connection to him is likely to rub me the wrong way.