Maxxine Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 So just reread the chapter when the Dothraki have battle with the another khalsar and the lamb men. Jorah says "khal ogo first, then the son, fogo, who became khal when ogo fell." This is an exact parallel to what Mel says must happen regarding burning two kings to wake the dragons. I never noticed this before and I haven't seen it brought up. It seems the majority opinion that the dragons hatched because of the deaths of Viserys, Drogo, & Rhaego. But if Mel's prophecy is true (which we know is not guaranteed) the Viserys, Drogo, Rhaego sacrifice doesn't work. Viserys didn't have a son who died after him and Rhaego died before Drogo so he was never khal. So maybe it was the deaths of Ogo and Fogo that caused the eggs to hatch and the deaths of Viserys, Drogo, & Rhaego are just a massive misdirection especially since it's easy to overlook the Ogo and Fogo deaths. What do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Intriguing idea! But I'm not sure Mel has the right of it - she has powers, no doubt, but all her reasoning and explanations and such always feel off to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I feel it is about sacrifice. Supposedly AA killed his wife for LB, not just any random person. So I think the fact that together Drago, Viceroys, and Rhaego were every Dany had made them an acceptable sacrifice for the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hammer of Justice Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Who knows, we don't know almost anything about the mechanics of hatching dragons anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Stark Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I'm tempted to say yes. Kings blood is said to have potent magical properties afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/28/2017 at 7:51 PM, Maxxine said: So just reread the chapter when the Dothraki have battle with the another khalsar and the lamb men. Jorah says "khal ogo first, then the son, fogo, who became khal when ogo fell." This is an exact parallel to what Mel says must happen regarding burning two kings to wake the dragons. I never noticed this before and I haven't seen it brought up. It seems the majority opinion that the dragons hatched because of the deaths of Viserys, Drogo, & Rhaego. But if Mel's prophecy is true (which we know is not guaranteed) the Viserys, Drogo, Rhaego sacrifice doesn't work. Viserys didn't have a son who died after him and Rhaego died before Drogo so he was never khal. So maybe it was the deaths of Ogo and Fogo that caused the eggs to hatch and the deaths of Viserys, Drogo, & Rhaego are just a massive misdirection especially since it's easy to overlook the Ogo and Fogo deaths. What do others think? I don't recall Melisandre saying two kings were necessary to wake the dragon, only that such a recipe would be very potent. The power of king's blood seems to universally accepted after all. But Ogo and Fogo were killed quite a while before the hatching, no? What The Ogo Fogo passage does is set up the idea of burning the Mance then his little monster. Mance might still be alive, and everyone at the Wall believes Craster's son is the Mance's boy. Gerrick Kingsblood has a son too, and with a name like that, he might as well tape a burn me sign to his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonkers Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I don't recall Melisandre saying two kings were necessary to wake the dragon, only that such a recipe would be very potent. I believe it refers to Jon 1 aDwD "Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die kings. The words had been murmured by one of the queen's men as Maester Aemon cleaned his wounds" However, neither Khals are kings, nor have Valeryon blood nor blood of the original king of men Garth Greenhand. So not likely I think. Mirri was singing her spell to hatch the dragons before she died, causing them to hatch. The fire is too hot for Dany to stand near it at first, until Mirri dies and the eggs hatch before she enters it. So I think Mirri hatches them because she couldn't steal them - Drogo didn't listen to her about the healing wound, thus she didn't gain Dany's trust for long enough to take them. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Good catch, OP. Khal's are certainly analogous to kings, since there is no higher authority for the Khas than the Khal. While we don't know the origin of this prophecy, if Mel stated it, there is a good chance that this was an Asshai prophecy which could predate Valyria and probably not be dependent on the fulfillment by a Westerosi king. It's at least possible that we had a parallel event occurring at Summerhall with the death of Aegon V and his eldest son, Prince Duncan. Since we haven't been made privy to the events at Summerhall, it is at least a possibility that Aegon V reinstated Duncan's claim to the throne before their deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 13 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I don't recall Melisandre saying two kings were necessary to wake the dragon, only that such a recipe would be very potent. The power of king's blood seems to universally accepted after all. But Ogo and Fogo were killed quite a while before the hatching, no? What The Ogo Fogo passage does is set up the idea of burning the Mance then his little monster. Mance might still be alive, and everyone at the Wall believes Craster's son is the Mance's boy. Gerrick Kingsblood has a son too, and with a name like that, he might as well tape a burn me sign to his back. It didn't come from Mel's mouth on page but one of her followers said it. It wasn't quite a while. They were killed after Viserys & a lot people think his death was part of the reasons the dragons hatched. 7 hours ago, Bonkers said: I believe it refers to Jon 1 aDwD "Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die kings. The words had been murmured by one of the queen's men as Maester Aemon cleaned his wounds" However, neither Khals are kings, nor have Valeryon blood nor blood of the original king of men Garth Greenhand. So not likely I think. Mirri was singing her spell to hatch the dragons before she died, causing them to hatch. The fire is too hot for Dany to stand near it at first, until Mirri dies and the eggs hatch before she enters it. So I think Mirri hatches them because she couldn't steal them - Drogo didn't listen to her about the healing wound, thus she didn't gain Dany's trust for long enough to take them. Just my thoughts. Khals are analogous to kings so I don't think that is an issue. Also Valyrian doesn't seem do be a part of this prophecy. It just says kings. Mance doesn't have Valyrian blood either (as far as we know). I do think MMD played a part though & may have been singing a spell, but not bc she wanted to steal the eggs. I think in a roundabout way she was helping Dany. On 1/28/2017 at 8:07 PM, kissdbyfire said: Intriguing idea! But I'm not sure Mel has the right of it - she has powers, no doubt, but all her reasoning and explanations and such always feel off to me. I think that's my biggest hangup about this. I don't trust Mel to interpret properly. I just want to kinda trust her on this bc she says to kings would wake the dragons from stone and that we may have saw some precedent for that 4 books before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Maxxine said: It didn't come from Mel's mouth on page but one of her followers said it. It wasn't quite a while. They were killed after Viserys & a lot people think his death was part of the reasons the dragons hatched. The dragon's likely hatched a few weeks after Drogo killed Ogo and Fogo. Wouldn't Rhaego, Drogo, and Mirri Maz Duur, work better as sacrifices to wake three dragons if such a sacrifice was required? Perhaps Mirri Maz Duur was sufficient since she was killed as the dragons began to hatch? Personally, I think The Dragon was gonna return regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: The dragon's likely hatched a few weeks after Drogo killed Ogo and Fogo. Wouldn't Rhaego, Drogo, and Mirri Maz Duur, work better as sacrifices to wake three dragons if such a sacrifice was required? Perhaps Mirri Maz Duur was sufficient since she was killed as the dragons began to hatch? Personally, I think The Dragon was gonna return regardless. I think that's a perfectly viable explanation too. I guess it depends if an actual sacrifice was needed (& what kind of sacrifice) or if kings blood is what needed. If you just needed anyone to die then all the people who died when Dany was about to give birth would've been sufficient & you wouldn't need MMD. I'm liking the Fogo Ogo thing right now because Jorah used almost the exact same words that were used in Dance. He really just replaced King with khal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Maxxine said: I think that's a perfectly viable explanation too. I guess it depends if an actual sacrifice was needed (& what kind of sacrifice) or if kings blood is what needed. If you just needed anyone to die then all the people who died when Dany was about to give birth would've been sufficient & you wouldn't need MMD. I'm liking the Fogo Ogo thing right now because Jorah used almost the exact same words that were used in Dance. He really just replaced King with khal. I can dig it. But I like MMD as the sacrifice since she's the one who was roasted alive, and since she's the one who taugh Daenerys that only death can pay for life. Poor Rhaego... Daenerys was destined to be the mother of dragons, not smelly horselord savages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowfood's Daughter Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 On 1/30/2017 at 6:36 PM, Maxxine said: I think that's a perfectly viable explanation too. I guess it depends if an actual sacrifice was needed (& what kind of sacrifice) or if kings blood is what needed. If you just needed anyone to die then all the people who died when Dany was about to give birth would've been sufficient & you wouldn't need MMD. I'm liking the Fogo Ogo thing right now because Jorah used almost the exact same words that were used in Dance. He really just replaced King with khal. I think MMD had just as much to do with the dragons hatching. If you take a look at the forsaken chapter, Euron is using the blood of preists for his dark plans. Spoiler “If your Drowned God did not smite me for killing three brothers, why should he bestir himself for the fourth? Because youare his priest?” He stepped back and sheathed his dagger. “No, I’ll not kill you tonight. A holy man with holy blood. I may have need of that blood...later. For now, you are condemned to live.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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