US Politics: Spicey Onion Indigestion in the Age of Trump

[Larry of the Lawn]

13 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

I take back everything I said about playing fair/nice.

GOP suspends Senate rule to pass through nominations

How can they simply suspend any rule that they don't like?

Fuck them. This makes it all out war

Yeah.  The Dems have tried to take the high road and ended up like Ned Stark too many times. The GOP will use every opportunity to increase their own power and alter rules to serve their ends.  The Dems need time to stick together, weather the storm, and focus on 2018.

[OldGimletEye]

12 minutes ago, mormont said:

This is the problem with playing nice when your opponents have made clear they don't respect or care about playing nice.

Yeah, I think a lot of conservatives see being "nice" as weakness. It's why I'd recommend being hard nosed with conservatives.

Also, on a personal note, this why I don't like the term "progressive". It seems, to me, a bit of a cop out to conservatives. I don't frickin care if conservatives don't like liberals.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I have never seen "being nice" or kind or decent as weakness.  I don't understand people who do regardless of political pursuasion.

[OldGimletEye]

4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I have never seen "being nice" or kind or decent as weakness.  I don't understand people who do.

Neither do I Scott. I do fundamentally believe in being nice and decent to people.

But, I've lived long enough to know, that some people think that being nice is being weak. And if you don't check their bullshit, like pronto, they will try to walk all over you.

[Dr. Pepper]

I don't want the Dems to give an inch.  Not at all.  I want them to be as obstructionist as possible.  The Republicans have been clear that they want to destroy America.  They have been clear that they don't care about the majority of Americans.  They've been clear that they approve of corruption and all manner of unethical behavior.  They've also been clear that they want as much a "shake up" as possible along the way to destroying the political system.  Well, they can try, and I expect my representatives to fight it tooth and nail.  If they don't, fuck them, they can go.  

There's not going to be any reconciliation, no compromise.  The Republicans won't allow it.  They refused to govern for years because they couldn't stand the fact that they were led by a black man.  

[Mexal]

21 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Yeah, I think a lot of conservatives see being "nice" as weakness. It's why I'd recommend being hard nosed with conservatives.

Also, on a personal note, this why I don't like the term "progressive". It seems, to me, a bit of a cop out to conservatives. I don't frickin care if conservatives don't like liberals.

You can only be so hard nosed. I mean, Dems don't have any power here. Republicans have proven they give two shits about the rules and will just change them at will. That means Dems have zero leverage. The only thing they can do is start creating the ads for 2018 and start finding willing Dems to challenge in Republican districts. It won't do much but it's something.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Mexal said:

You can only be so hard nosed. I mean, Dems don't have any power here. Senate Republicans have proven they give two shits about the rules and will just change them at will. That means Dems have zero leverage. The only thing they can do is start creating the adds for 2018 and start finding willing Dems to challenge in Republican districts. It won't do much but it's something.

Well, its true you have to be careful about what battles you want to fight. And of course, your actual resources are going to matter in making those calculations.

But, that still is a long way off from saying, "Golly aw shucks, we'll just let bygones be bygones."

[Mexal]

3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well, its true you have to be careful about what battles you want to fight. And of course, your actual resources are going to matter in making those calculations.

But, that still is a long way off from saying, "Golly aw shucks, we'll just let bygones be bygones."

But what battles can they win? They have zero leverage. 

[OldGimletEye]

1 minute ago, Mexal said:

But what battles can they win? They have zero leverage. 

Well, one thing you can always count on the Republican Party to do is: step in a big pile of dogshit.

Possible areas where the Republicans could take a political beating:

1. Social Security or Medicare "reform".

2. Hamfisted attempts to "reform" the ACA, which we know they will do.

3. Probably others I'm not thinking about, at the moment.

You might not have the legislators to stop them. But, it looks like you can make enough of a fuss, to make sure the Republicans take a political beating.

[Jaxom 1974]

7 minutes ago, Mexal said:

You can only be so hard nosed. I mean, Dems don't have any power here. Republicans have proven they give two shits about the rules and will just change them at will. That means Dems have zero leverage. The only thing they can do is start creating the ads for 2018 and start finding willing Dems to challenge in Republican districts. It won't do much but it's something.

 

1 minute ago, Mexal said:

But what battles can they win? They have zero leverage. 

Maybe the question then becomes, "What do they have to lose then?". If they go out and fight tooth and nail, no matter how limited, and fail spectacularly because the people decide they like the tyranny and going backwards in time, and Republican challengers to their seats in 18 and 20 will take them over.  If they go out and fight tooth and nail, no matter how limited, and they can make enough people think about avoiding tyranny and going backwards in time, then it only benefits them.  If the Democrats go out and simply decide to pick battles and lay down when the fight isn't winnable at all they'll either get replaced by Republicans in 18 and 20 because they haven't done enough and they allow continued strength to grow by the opposition or they'll be done in by whatever version of the tea party rises on the left because they didn't attempt to fight at all.

I think that makes sense.

[Robin Of House Hill]

7 hours ago, mormont said:

The alt-right?

I suppose you might deny that the alt-right is a radical Christian group, although they themselves talk frequently about Christianity, albeit as more of a cultural reference than a religious one. But OK, we can admit that and go on to call such people 'alt-right terrorists' or 'radical right-wing terrorists' if you prefer.

Personally, I prefer to avoid the labels as much as possible because the ideology is rarely the only reason why someone does something like this. But at the same time, it's beyond question at this point that the media coverage of these incidents is radically different according to the race of the shooter. That does no-one any good.

I wish we would stop normalizing and legitimatizing them.  Call them Fascists or Nazis, or even add the prefix, "neo." if you're uncomfortable in being so blunt  "Alt-right" was invented by them to disguise what they are.

[Mexal]

I get the point you guys are making and I agree with it in principle. Just not sure what they end up accomplishing. We'll see.

In other news, I still cannot believe this is the man who's leading the country.

And then there is this. Melania Trump might not move to the White House at all which costs taxpayers $1 million a day, especially us NYers since the Federal Government is shit at paying us back.

 

[OldGimletEye]

3 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I get the point you guys are making and I agree with it in principle.

My point is generally this: Find a political battle you can win (and also something that you believe in). It may not be a legislative battle you can win because you don't have the votes. But, even if you don't have the votes to win the legislative battle, it's still worth giving the Republican Party a political bloody nose. There will be other elections.

[Dr. Pepper]

4 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I get the point you guys are making and I agree with it in principle. Just not sure what they end up accomplishing. We'll see.

In other news, I still cannot believe this is the man who's leading the country.

 

He also took the time to tell people at this event that CNN is fake news because they aren't nice to them but that Fox is good because they are nice.  And he has people believing this is ok.

Oh, and he continued the "black = high crime inner city" shit.

Quote

And then there is this. Melania Trump might not move to the White House at all which costs taxpayers $1 million a day, especially us NYers since the Federal Government is shit at paying us back.

Plus there is that withholding funding for being a sanctuary city.  

[Dr. Pepper]

3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

My point is generally this: Find a political battle you can win (and also something that you believe in). It may not be a legislative battle you can win because you don't have the votes. But, even if you don't have the votes to win the legislative battle, it's still worth giving the Republican Party a political bloody nose. There will be other elections.

But what battle could it possibly be that they could win?  Republicans literally don't care about anything reasonable.  They don't care about corruption or ethics or their children's future.  They don't care about sexual assault or mocking the disabled.  They don't care about health care or education.  The list goes on forever.  What is there left that could possibly bloody the noses of the GOP when there's nothing their base cares about so long as it comes from a Republican?  The base is so far gone that all a GOP member would have to do is say "But that Democrat has a private email and oh look at that over there and by the way god has forgiven me so let's just move on."

[OldGimletEye]

1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said:

But what battle could it possibly be that they could win?  Republicans literally don't care about anything reasonable.  They don't care about corruption or ethics or their children's future.  They don't care about sexual assault or mocking the disabled.  They don't care about health care or education.  The list goes on forever.  What is there left that could possibly bloody the noses of the GOP when there's nothing their base cares about so long as it comes from a Republican?  The base is so far gone that all a GOP member would have to do is say "But that Democrat has a private email and oh look at that over there and by the way god has forgiven me so let's just move on."

Oh I think, Paul Ryan's "A More Horseshit Way" offers up a variety of possibilities.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Not all the outrageous crap is coming from the federal level:

Republicans at the state levels are pushing anti-protest laws

 

They scream bloody murder at the slightest hint of firearm regulations, but what to get rid of a major part of the 1st Amendment (more than one part of it really)

[Jaxom 1974]

2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

My point is generally this: Find a political battle you can win (and also something that you believe in). It may not be a legislative battle you can win because you don't have the votes. But, even if you don't have the votes, it's still worth giving the Republican Party a political bloody nose. There will be other elections.

I'm no longer certain there will be other elections.

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, Commodore said:

The argument is that if something is made in America for export, it gets taxed both in America and again at the destination country.

Whereas if that same item is made overseas for export to America, the country of origin does not tax it, and neither does the US.

Which means the foreign country can charge less for the same item because they don't have the taxes. 

At the very least we should remove taxes on our own exports.

Adding taxes to imports is dubious, as it may lead to higher prices (counterargument is that it will lead to the good being produced here and the price won't rise if that is the case). 

The best (but probably not politically viable) solution is no corporate taxes, as the added costs just gets passed on in some combination of higher prices/lower wages. It would also mean very little reason to set up shop anywhere other than the US. 

What is this bullshit?

Countries used to have a Manufacturers' Tax,  which was an imbedded tax that could not simply be deducted.  Europeans switched to a value added tax decades ago, and Canada was getting creamed as tariffs started going down, so we switched to a VAT as well ( the GST, Goods and Services Tax, called the HST in provinces that allow the feds to collect provincial sales tax for them at the same time). Exports are not charged the GST, because they're being exported, but when those same goods are sold in the country, they are subject to the GST, as are imported goods. Level playing field.

And in the meantime, manufacturers in other countries still pay property and other taxes, just like US businesses. When you say American businesses are paying taxes that imports don't pay, the answer is, of course not. They pay those taxes in their own countries. US imported goods don't pay property or income or whatever other taxes are charged to local businesses either.

The US has no export tax and no Manufacturers' tax, so to compete with the US other countries had to be in the same position.

The problem may very well be the vast array of state and local taxes paid by US businesses. The answer is reform your bloody tax system, not, start a trade war.

[Dr. Pepper]

12 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Oh I think, Paul Ryan's "A More Horseshit Way" offers up a variety of possibilities.

I'm not following. 

9 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

Not all the outrageous crap is coming from the federal level:

Republicans at the state levels are pushing anti-protest laws

 

They scream bloody murder at the slightest hint of firearm regulations, but what to get rid of a major part of the 1st Amendment (more than one part of it really)

Yup, their base doesn't care about gutting the first amendment.  So long as they have their guns.