The Gravepisser Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 If Sansa is not supposed to be queen, then who will be the Snowwhite who overthrows evil queen(s)? Who will build snow castles? ... Brienne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I've through all the information you posted links to, @chrisdaw and I'm most impressed by the thought you've put into all this. Most convincing, indeed. I'm looking forward to seeing how this will play out in the upcoming two volumes that'll conclude this saga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 19 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: Now, what could make sense is something on the lines of what chrisdaw has said, i.e. that this is metaphorical and that Arya, although I believe she will always be wild and dislike the game, will come back to the fold and live her life in a lawful way, which could represent in a way that her work with needle would have come to an end, or at least in the way she was "sewing through winter" but that could imply though the physical death of Nymeria. I'm having a great time reading the views of people who have been considering these ideas for so much longer than have I. I have lots of newbie questions and I'm grateful for the generosity (and patience!)of the forum. @Morgana Lannister Given what we know from the books, what do you see as a possible "lawful way" for Arya to live her life after what promises to be cataclysmic changes in Westeros? Why would Nymeria have to die? Do you think Arya would accept that in order to live a normal life? As you've probably guessed by my questions, I'm enamoured of the idea Arya, if she survives to the end of the saga, decides to blow this taco stand, and takes ship to explore new lands, new horizons. With or without Nymeria, I can't tell. 19 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: I have had a feeling all along that various characters but mainly Tyrion and Arya will finally realise that "revenge is overrated." I think George planted that notion into our minds quite well with the Oberyn scene. I am not suggesting that these characters will never have feelings of revenge or that someone will not give LF and or Ramsay their dues but I think revenge would not only be their sole purpose so I think Arya will mellow and become less impulsive. I like your thinking very much! The trouble is, HBO've cast some wonderful actors in key parts and those shots of Maisie Williams in her final scene of season 6, episode 10, definitely colour the way I read the books. Still, as I finish my second rereading and start on my third, I'm sure I'll appreciate your ideas more. Give me time! Anyway, Sansa. I read a fascinating thread here this morning about a possible ending for Sansa in a dramatic snow avalanche in the Vale. I'm going to have to reread the thread several times to thoroughly get the gist of it, the idea is actually rather attractive, especially with the foreshadowings it has from AGOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Sansa as the Queen in the Iron throne is the most bittersweet ending I could think of. Westeros is thankfully saved from the Others but looking at a disastrous regime of Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter daughter Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, khal drogon said: Sansa as the Queen in the Iron throne is the most bittersweet ending I could think of. Westeros is thankfully saved from the Others but looking at a disastrous regime of Sansa. Why disastrous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, winter daughter said: Why disastrous? Because she simply don't have the skills, knowledge and capability to rule on her own at least by the end of the series. Maybe she will be a great queen years after but the Sansa of present will never have the power, legitimacy and skills to hold on to the throne which will also be affected by bad decisions and civil wars. She will make a good Queen consort though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 You know, after watching Season 5, I'm thinking that Sansa's going to have a pretty bad time with Harrold Hardyng. What I'd like to read/see: Sansa kill Littlefinger. He's caused her the most grief out of anyone who's left, moreso in the series where he sent her to Ramsay Bolton and he gave her the worst relationship of her life. After all, the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. I'd also like to see her wind up with someone who loves her for who she is, not just because of her position. But hey, wouldn't we all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter daughter Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 hours ago, khal drogon said: Because she simply don't have the skills, knowledge and capability to rule on her own at least by the end of the series. Her story has always been about politics. she has learned a lot since the beginning of the series and there are still two books left. and I think good kings and queens do not rule on their own...they are usually surrounded by good advisors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 8 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said: Given what we know from the books, what do you see as a possible "lawful way" for Arya to live her life after what promises to be cataclysmic changes in Westeros? I don't think GRRM's message is that one should obey the self-serving laws of feudal lords in a patriarchal society. 8 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said: As you've probably guessed by my questions, I'm enamoured of the idea Arya, if she survives to the end of the saga, decides to blow this taco stand, and takes ship to explore new lands, new horizons. With or without Nymeria, I can't tell. If the Others are victorious and the surviving Westerosi must flee to a new homeland then Arya leading the expedition would make sense, otherwise her first priority would be to reunited with her pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Horse of Kent said: I don't think GRRM's message is that one should obey the self-serving laws of feudal lords in a patriarchal society. If the Others are victorious and the surviving Westerosi must flee to a new homeland then Arya leading the expedition would make sense, otherwise her first priority would be to reunited with her pack. Reunited with her pack. But on what terms? Would she even consent to wearing a dress again? I'm looking forward to seeing just how her future plays out. And Sansa. A good queen consort mother of kings? Yes. A queen regnant of the Seven Kingdoms with a reliable small council? Who could possibly sit on this council? Lady of Winterfell? In lieu of any children of Robb, or if Jeyne Westerling doesn't claim that title, why not? Lady of the Vale? There's a lot of ground to cover before that's a possiblity. Other possibilities could include Highgarden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter daughter Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said: And Sansa. A good queen consort mother of kings? A queen regnant of the Seven Kingdoms with a reliable small council? Who could possibly sit on this council? Sansa's chance of becoming queen is really slim. queen regnant? she has no claim over IT. queen consort? it's possible but who is she gonna marry? Jon? they've grown up as siblings so I hope not. Aegon? I think he will not survive the series. who else? 1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said: Lady of Winterfell? I think after the war Bran will be the Lord of Winterfell. and if he remains unmarried then she could be Lady of his castle. 1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said: Lady of the Vale? possible. but who will be her husband? I think Harry is not long for this world. and SR is ill and spoiled. but I actually hope he survives the war and become a capable ruler.. mostly because no one takes him seriously and he is expected to die. 1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said: Other possibilities could include Highgarden. We have not seen Willas yet but he seems like a good person and Highgarden is an ideal place for Sansa. What about Andar Royce? Royces are respected and powerful and they've always had a good relationship with Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 28 minutes ago, winter daughter said: Sansa's chance of becoming queen is really slim. queen regnant? she has no claim over IT. queen consort? it's possible but who is she gonna marry? Jon? they've grown up as siblings so I hope not. Aegon? I think he will not survive the series. who else? I think after the war Bran will be the Lord of Winterfell. and if he remains unmarried then she could be the Lady of his castle. possible. but who will be her husband? I think Harry is not long for this world. and SR is ill and spoiled. but I actually hope he survives the war and become a capable ruler.. mostly because no one takes him seriously and he is expected to die. We have not seen Willas yet but he seems like a good person and Highgarden is an ideal place for Sansa. What about Andar Royce? Royces are respected and powerful and they've always had a good relationship with Starks. Choise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said: Reunited with her pack. But on what terms? Would she even consent to wearing a dress again? I'm looking forward to seeing just how her future plays out. It would be rather out of character for any of her siblings to be angry that she does not fit a traditionally feminine role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 8 hours ago, winter daughter said: Her story has always been about politics. she has learned a lot since the beginning of the series and there are still two books left. and I think good kings and queens do not rule on their own...they are usually surrounded by good advisors. But who would be her advisors? What claim she would have? Personally I believe 15 year olds will always struggle ruling especially Sansa who had no experience in ruling only court politics. I don't deny that she will be a well meaning person but I wouldn't exactly choose Sansa for rebuilding a ravaged kingdom after the war with the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tai Pan Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 A disfigured septa could be an interesting future for Sansa. She can look after Sweet Robyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter daughter Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 6 hours ago, khal drogon said: But who would be her advisors? What claim she would have? Personally I believe 15 year olds will always struggle ruling especially Sansa who had no experience in ruling only court politics. I don't deny that she will be a well meaning person but I wouldn't exactly choose Sansa for rebuilding a ravaged kingdom after the war with the Others. Oh I don't think she'll be the queen because as you said she has no claim. I'm just saying that IMO she is not as incompetent as you think. I'd choose Jon as king and Tyrion as his hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 11 hours ago, Horse of Kent said: It would be rather out of character for any of her siblings to be angry that she does not fit a traditionally feminine role. Dunno about that. Sansa is a downy lass and who can really say how she views people and family now, or shall do at the end of TWOW or ADOS. I'm presently enamoured of the avalanche theory where she ends up being carried off by the Mountain Clans, when they over-run the Gates of the Moon. I wonder how much they'd appreciate her embroidery skills. Anyway. I'm on my second re-reading, just about half-way through AFFC, and my ideas are changing regards to more or less everything and everyone. I see how the HBO production has influenced what I read and how I read it. Great acting does that, after all. I've also started a chapter by chapter reread with https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiNKdz7SDL62u8K027f15-yWXa_ljd6hw By the way, if anyone knows of other reading groups, let me know, please. The point of this rambling, pre-coffee post is that, like Jon Snow, I know nothing. My views on each character are hopelessly entangled with what I've seen in the HBO production. I'm still reading the vast amounts of information available here at the forum. For Arya, starting now with the thread: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145263-arya-will-become-queen/&page=1 For Sansa, I'd appreciate anyone pointing out threads where her character and possible ending have been discussed years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 19 hours ago, khal drogon said: Sansa as the Queen in the Iron throne is the most bittersweet ending I could think of. Westeros is thankfully saved from the Others but looking at a disastrous regime of Sansa. 19 hours ago, khal drogon said: Because she simply don't have the skills, knowledge and capability to rule on her own at least by the end of the series. Maybe she will be a great queen years after but the Sansa of present will never have the power, legitimacy and skills to hold on to the throne which will also be affected by bad decisions and civil wars. She will make a good Queen consort though. That's why Baelish as Hand solves this problem neatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 9 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: That's why Baelish as Hand solves this problem neatly. I would rather prefer Baelish on the throne than Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 9 hours ago, khal drogon said: I would rather prefer Baelish on the throne than Sansa. Indeed but I see Baelish as Hand to a Aegon/Sansa union as a possible ending. Having Baelish on the throne at the end would amuse me to no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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