Sansas ending

[Targaryen Restoration]

1 minute ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

She'll marry with Aegon to secure the north when he starts his cause. If the northen conspiracy is true, then Rickard or Jon will be warden of the north after the boltons are reppeled. But Sansa as a Stark and a female can marry someone from the south to increase the union of the kingdom. So Aegon can choose between Arianne Martell (to secure Dorne) or Sansa (to secure the north). That's her roll in the series.

I don't think so.  Sansa is not queen material.  I also don't think Sansa will survive to the end of the series.  She was supposed to in George Martin's original plot outline.  Sansa will be lucky to leave the Eyrie with her life.  Via the Moon Door is a likely way Sansa will leave the Eyrie.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Targaryen Restoration said:

I don't think so.  Sansa is not queen material.  I also don't think Sansa will survive to the end of the series.  She was supposed to in George Martin's original plot outline.  Sansa will be lucky to leave the Eyrie with her life.  Via the Moon Door is a likely way Sansa will leave the Eyrie.

Why? She had LF making sure she's safe. Even if the Royces try to kill her, they have more than half of the Vale on their hands, and LF is the warden of the Vale as well. I don't see this happening at all.

[The Ned's Little Girl]

5 minutes ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

I don't think so.  Sansa is not queen material.  I also don't think Sansa will survive to the end of the series.  She was supposed to in George Martin's original plot outline.  Sansa will be lucky to leave the Eyrie with her life.  Via the Moon Door is a likely way Sansa will leave the Eyrie.

She's already left the Eyrie - and with her life to boot. The Eyrie has been closed up for the winter.

 

[Targaryen Restoration]

Just now, The Ned's Little Girl said:

She's already left the Eyrie - and with her life to boot. The Eyrie has been closed up for the winter.

 

She's still in the Vale.  Plenty of time for Sansa to get sent out the Moon Door.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Targaryen Restoration said:

She's still in the Vale.  Plenty of time for Sansa to get sent out the Moon Door.

And who will kill her????

[Targaryen Restoration]

2 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

And who will kill her????

The list of candidates isn't short.  Myranda Royce?  Harry the Heir, should he ever get tired of Sansa or she becomes a liability.  Nestor.  Littlefinger if Sansa betrays him and fails. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

1 minute ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

The list of candidates isn't short.  Myranda Royce?  Harry the Heir, should he ever get tired of Sansa or she becomes a liability.  Nestor.  Littlefinger if Sansa betrays him and fails. 

But, what are the reasons to sansa betray LF now? She's learning so freaking much with him. And even if the Royces are mad at LF and Sansa doing that would resort in a civil war on the Vale. That's absolutely no reason to anyone kill anybody at the moment. 

[Good Guy Garlan]

18 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

She'll marry with Aegon to secure the north when he starts his cause. If the northen conspiracy is true, then Rickard or Jon will be warden of the north after the boltons are reppeled. But Sansa as a Stark and a female can marry someone from the south to increase the union of the kingdom. So Aegon can choose between Arianne Martell (to secure Dorne) or Sansa (to secure the north). That's her roll in the series.

Yes! I guess this is wishful thinking on my part but man, I so don't want an Aegon-Arianne match, mostly because I don't really care about any of them individually, let alone as a couple. 

I could see why Arianne would want to marry Aegon (he's supposed to be super hot, her weakness is pretty boys, plus she'd get to be queen, an idea that I think has been taking hold in her brain ever since Doran told her what might've been had Viserys lived), but then the whole "claiming to be Aegon" thing would be kind of pointless from a narrative perspective. 

Like, if Arianne was gonna marry whatever random pretender Varys and Illyrio conjured up, then there was no need of the Martell-Targ connection via Aegon. In theory, the Martells should be supporting Aegon just because he's Elia's kid. And I think by then the Martells are gonna be pressured into supporting him, for several potential factors like:

- Revenge for Quentyn's death (they're obvs gonna blame Dany for that one)

- A potential Yronwood uprising for Doran's role (or lack thereof) in Cletus Yronwood's death

- The Lannisters/Tyrells finding out about the Myrcella fiasco/Arianne's treason

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Yes! I guess this is wishful thinking on my part but man, I so don't want an Aegon-Arianne match, mostly because I don't really care about any of them individually, let alone as a couple. 

I could see why Arianne would want to marry Aegon (he's supposed to be super hot, her weakness is pretty boys, plus she'd get to be queen, an idea that I think has been taking hold in her brain ever since Doran told her what might've been had Viserys lived), but then the whole "claiming to be Aegon" thing would be kind of pointless from a narrative perspective. 

Like, if Arianne was gonna marry whatever random pretender Varys and Illyrio conjured up, then there was no need of the Martell-Targ connection via Aegon. In theory, the Martells should be supporting Aegon just because he's Elia's kid. And I think by then the Martells are gonna be pressured into supporting him, for several potential factors like:

- Revenge for Quentyn's death (they're obvs gonna blame Dany for that one)

- A potential Yronwood uprising for Doran's role (or lack thereof) in Cletus Yronwood's death

- The Lannisters/Tyrells finding out about the Myrcella fiasco/Arianne's treason

I don't see that as a wishful thinking. Because he needs to secure some parts of the realm that'll be divided. Dorne is fairly united and a uprising is not that likely, but the north is utterly chaos. And securing a position as husband of a Stark (if they repeel the boltons) is going to give him just that. Others choices are, dany (but she'll never marry him because of her lust of power and the mummer's dragon prophecy) some random lord daughter of the stormlands (which is useless since they're going to join him after he takes Storm's end) and I really don't know anyone else. So my guesses are either Sansa or Arianne.

[Good Guy Garlan]

2 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I don't see that as a wishful thinking. Because he needs to secure some parts of the realm that'll be divided. Dorne is fairly united and a uprising is not that likely, but the north is utterly chaos. And securing a position as husband of a Stark (if they repeel the boltons) is going to give him just that. Others choices are, dany (but she'll never marry him because of her lust of power and the mummer's dragon prophecy) some random lord daughter of the stormlands (which is useless since they're going to join him after he takes Storm's end) and I really don't know anyone else. So my guesses are either Sansa or Arianne.

Exactly. Sansa is the best choice to unify the realm, considering her family ties to 3 main Houses that were anti-Targ in the rebellion. Sure, her usefulness (politically speaking) is largely dependent on the Boltons, Freys and Littlefinger getting ousted, but the odds of that are quite high. 

Not to mention other reasons, like: 

- The potential foreshadowing of the Tourney at Ashford in Dunk and Egg

- The fact that both Sansa and Lyanna are promised to a handsome but womanizing dude living in the Vale. We know Lyanna ended up choosing the Targ instead. 

- The presence of the Mad Mouse in the Vale, who I think could very well work for Varys.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

4 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

- The fact that both Sansa and Lyanna are promised to a handsome but womanizing dude living in the Vale. We know Lyanna ended up choosing the Targ instead.

Oh, that's very nice similarlyties.

[teej6]

1 hour ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

She's still in the Vale.  Plenty of time for Sansa to get sent out the Moon Door.

You do know that the Moon Door is in the Eyrie and as The Ned's Little Girl pointed out the Eyrie is closed for the winter. They'll most likely only return after winter, which would probably be towards the end of the last book. So your hopes for Sansa going out the Moon Door will most likely not materialize. 

[Makk]

I get the impression that Sansa was originally going to die fairly early but then George changed his mind. This means that she will have some purpose and I don't see it being Aegon. I think she will gain control of the Vale, probably by manipulating Harry (or potentially Robert Arryn) and convincing him to join the North and the Riverlands in war (possibly to the south, possibly against the others). Oh, and she will off Littlefinger in the process. 

On Aegon, I don't think there is much linking them. Littlefinger is not going to try and push her that way, Connington is not going to push Aegon towards her (unless something happens to Daenerys). And if she spurns Harry (and Robert) the Vale is unlikely to support her. Equally it is unlikely the North would support her ahead of Jon (unless Robb's will never comes into play but I doubt that) which means value to Aegon is low who wants troops fast. Her marriage to Tyrion is another problem with any potential suitor, but I think it would be easier to get past that with Harry than Aegon, who personally knows Tyrion.

[Good Guy Garlan]

26 minutes ago, Makk said:

I get the impression that Sansa was originally going to die fairly early but then George changed his mind. This means that she will have some purpose and I don't see it being Aegon. I think she will gain control of the Vale, probably by manipulating Harry (or potentially Robert Arryn) and convincing him to join the North and the Riverlands in war (possibly to the south, possibly against the others). Oh, and she will off Littlefinger in the process. 

On Aegon, I don't think there is much linking them. Littlefinger is not going to try and push her that way, Connington is not going to push Aegon towards her (unless something happens to Daenerys). And if she spurns Harry (and Robert) the Vale is unlikely to support her. Equally it is unlikely the North would support her ahead of Jon (unless Robb's will never comes into play but I doubt that) which means value to Aegon is low who wants troops fast. Her marriage to Tyrion is another problem with any potential suitor, but I think it would be easier to get past that with Harry than Aegon, who personally knows Tyrion.

I agree with you that she will get rid of Littlefinger, so he won't have a say in that. I also think Varys hired the Mad Mouse to report to him personally, so there's that link between Sansa and Team Aegon. 

Also, it's just a matter of time before word of Dany's alleged "death" at the Pit reaches Jon Connington, in which case he'll consider another bride for Aegon. It would be super ironic if once again a Stark girl came out of nowhere to steal a Targaryen prince away from a Martell woman. 

[UnFit Finlay]

On 03/04/2017 at 3:40 AM, Byfort of Corfe said:

I like Sansa as a character, she is one of the major characters that has shown development and growth.  It's because of that that the whole "Harry the Heir" plotline doesn't appeal to me in the least.  She is once again simply someone's puppet, in this case Little Finger's.  Plus I have to say that with two books to go, Book 6 and &, I really want to start seeing things wrap up instead of long plotlines being developed that don't seem to go anywhere (like most of the Dorne stuff, especially Quentyn and Company, Tyrion and Penny as slaves cleaning up their master, most of Meereen).  That I fear is what is happening to Sansa's plotline. 

I agree but, on the plus side, I don't think that's actually going anywhere.

It was Littlefinger's plan based on the destruction of the Lannister, Tyrell and Martell alliance, which seemed imminent and didn't take into account Stannis' presence in the North, or Aegon's existence. I really can't see Littlefinger sending the Knight's of the Vale North to help Stannis. Especially if Davos returns with Rickon and renders Sansa's claim worthless.

I think the point of that plan was to establish to Sansa that Robert's life is in danger. She's been responsible for some horrible things in the series but all of them were without her knowledge. This would be the first time that she actually has some power and, I think (and I hope) that she'll use it to save Robert. I think we'll soon see her, Robert and perhaps Mya Stone and Lothar Brune, on the way to Runestone where she'll out herself to Bronze Yohn.

Long term, I see her marrying a legitimized Edric Storm and becoming Queen. The other potential suitors just feel....off. There would also be a nice sense of closure if the series ended with her marrying real Robert's son considering it started with her being betrothed to a fake one.

 

[SeanF]

I think she'll finish the series as a professional torturer, for a company of sellswords.

[Lord Vance II]

I don't know how Sansa's story will end, but I think her role in the endgame is to get Harry the Heir wrapped around her finger and get rid of Littlefinger since he can't help her anymore. And during the 11th hour of the Battle for the Dawn, she shows up in the North with 15,000 or so of the freshest troops in Westeros.

I think it's really key that at this point, with most of the great houses bruised and bloodied, the Vale (and White Harbor for that matter) still have large, relatively fresh armies. 

I think she would be content to be lady of the Eyrie at the very end. 

[Byfort of Corfe]

15 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

The problem is that Tyrion is not a noble, selfless soul who just so happens to be unattractive. Dude is straight up ugly inside and out. 

Even if Sansa grows out of her supposed "shallow" phase (which, let's be real, is an outdated concept. Like, why would it be a crime to be attracted to physical beauty?) she would still have more than enough valid reasons for staying the hell away from Tyrion. 

As Sansa says, they don't want her, they want her claim.  When Tyrion is trying to get Bronn to fight the Mountain for him he points out that through Sansa he will control the North and he can therefor carve out a large piece of it for Bronn.  You can say a lot of things about Tyrion and his motivations but they are anything but pure.  Let's face it, Tyrion would rather consort with prostitutes than any other woman.  GRRM shows this on a number of occasions.

 

 

[Byfort of Corfe]

10 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

I don't know how Sansa's story will end, but I think her role in the endgame is to get Harry the Heir wrapped around her finger and get rid of Littlefinger since he can't help her anymore. And during the 11th hour of the Battle for the Dawn, she shows up in the North with 15,000 or so of the freshest troops in Westeros.

I think it's really key that at this point, with most of the great houses bruised and bloodied, the Vale (and White Harbor for that matter) still have large, relatively fresh armies. 

I think she would be content to be lady of the Eyrie at the very end. 

And for me this is one of the problems that I have with the books after Book 3.  Introducing "important characters" this late in the game smacks of Deus ex Machina.  And if Harry the Heir isn't going to play a major part then his story arc, like the rest of the Vale and Dorne arc are really just filler.

[Newstar]

It seems like the OP and some of the other posters upthread are assuming that Tyrion would want Sansa back, and the only obstacle to Sansa ending up with Tyrion is Sansa accepting Tyrion as her husband.

To me, that premise is flawed. Why would Tyrion want anything to do with Sansa? This is the same guy who murdered the last woman who betrayed him, and who spent ADWD brooding on how Tysha was the only one who loved him and how all other women were false bitches. If he wants anyone, it's Tysha, and whores will do in the meantime.

Even if Tyrion could swallow his own anger at Sansa to attempt a reunion for purely mercenary reasons, he was only tempted to marry Sansa because it might get him Winterfell, and he was only interested in Winterfell as a consolation prize because he believed he'd never get Casterly Rock. Well, now Tywin is dead, so it's open season on Casterly Rock as far as Tyrion is concerned, which is fine by him because it's what he really wanted in the first place. Even if he were still interested in Winterfell, at some point it's going to come out that Robb disinherited Sansa precisely so that Tyrion could never get Winterfell, so that would be the end of that.

And on the very remote possibility that Tyrion would get over his anger at Sansa and the fact that she was no longer heir to Winterfell, Tyrion would be unlikely to forget that he hated being married to Sansa. As much as he admired and lusted after Sansa's beauty, he tired pretty quickly of her shit. When Tyrion simmers down about the whole Sansa leaving him to die in KL business, he'll probably be grateful that Sansa is no longer his problem. 

On some of the other theories...

1. Queen Sansa: Won't happen, but her future role--whether she lives or dies before the end of the books--will involve politicking.

2. Queen in the North/Lady of Winterfell: Maybe on an interim basis, until the news comes out about Robb disinheriting her, but not as an endgame.

3. Lady of the Eyrie: To be Lady of the Eyrie, Sansa would have to have a child off Harry the Heir or Sweetrobin, and neither seems likely. She has no independent claim to the Vale. If Harry dies, there are other Arryns scattered around; Sansa would only have a claim through a child of the heir.

More generally, the outline hints that GRRM never intended Sansa to have a big role in the ending (endgame queen, endgame ruler of Winterfell, etc.). Those roles will likely go to the "big five" in some or other combination (Jon/Dany on the throne, Bran at Winterfell, e.g.). She seems to have lived past her expiration date in the outline, but all GRRM may have done is move her death closer to the end. I wouldn't declare her "safe" just yet.