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Who is Haldon Halfmaester?

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26 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

OK, I came to this topic with the full intention of deciding Haldon is just Haldon. But the talk of the Darklyns and Hollards has given me an idea. I do not buy that he is the Maester of either house because we are told he is only Half trained hence Halfmaester. But I do think these two houses can explain why a boy at the Citadel might run away to Essos and end up with a bunch of other Westerosi exiles. I propose that Haldon is simply a son of either house Hollard or Darklyn who was studying at the Citadel when the defiance happened and afraid for his life after hearing of what King Aerys had done to his family he snuck away one night despite not having finished his chain and took a ship for Essos. As a student of the citadel he should have been safe from the Kings ire, but how could anyone trust this King who is rapidly looking to be somewhat unhinged to abide by this social ettiquete.

So Haldon Hollard or Haldon Darklyn. I think.  

I don't feel I can defend my suggestion that Haldon was the Darklyn's master at the time of the Defiance, because the only thing that is textural is that the Darklyn's maester from the time of the Defiance is unaccounted for. However, I have never thought Haldon was only half trained. He speaks multiple languages, has complete medical training, knows math. Haldon has the largest room on the Shy Maid to accommodate all of his books. Haldon has all the skills necessary to be a household maester. If he was kicked out of the Citadel it was very, very late in his education. His back story will be relevant.

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@bent branch I don't think every word we are told is a lie, unlike some on this forum. cough cough....(not meaning you btw, just a general observation).

 There is no reason at all to tell Tyrion Haldon never earned all the links needed to form a chain and thus is not a fully qualified Maester if he is, in fact, a fully fledged Maester it just does not serve any purpose to hide that from Tyrion. The Citadel churns out dozens if not over a hundred Maesters each year. It is basically a University.  Telling Tyrion Haldon is a Maester in no way compromises anything or anyone. Therefore there is no reason to lie either.

He is someone who studied at the Citadel but never earned his full chain. So we have to look at reasons why someone who evidently can't have been very far off forging his full chain; would up and leave the Citadel without passing out so to say.  And him being from a family who Aerys decided to decimate makes sense. I think anyone in that situation might shit a brick and do a flit. 

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2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

@bent branch I don't think every word we are told is a lie, unlike some on this forum. cough cough....(not meaning you btw, just a general observation).

 There is no reason at all to tell Tyrion Haldon never earned all the links needed to form a chain and thus is not a fully qualified Maester if he is, in fact, a fully fledged Maester it just does not serve any purpose to hide that from Tyrion. The Citadel churns out dozens if not over a hundred Maesters each year. It is basically a University.  Telling Tyrion Haldon is a Maester in no way compromises anything or anyone. Therefore there is no reason to lie either.

He is someone who studied at the Citadel but never earned his full chain. So we have to look at reasons why someone who evidently can't have been very far off forging his full chain; would up and leave the Citadel without passing out so to say.  And him being from a family who Aerys decided to decimate makes sense. I think anyone in that situation might shit a brick and do a flit. 

Just want to point out that we aren't ever told that Haldon hadn't finished earning his chain. What were are told is (ADWD - Chapter 8):

Quote

"...I am Haldon, the healer in our little band of brothers. Some call me Halfmaester. My companion is Ser Duck."

This rather ambiguous statement is open assumptions. If Haldon is proven to be a chainless maester rather than a halfmaester, it will not be a lie. We'll see if there is anything more to learn about Haldon.

Edited by bent branch
Fixed an auto-correct.

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"The dead do not rise," insisted Haldon Halfmaester, "and no man lives a thousand years. . . ."

(ADwD, Tyrion V)

"Do the dead frighten you?" Ser Waymar Royce asked with just a hint of a smile.

Gared did not rise to the bait. He was an old man, past fifty, and he had seen the lordlings come and go. "Dead is dead," he said. "We have no business with the dead."

(AGoT, Prologue)

One of Haldon's biggest scenes is the two passes of the Shy Maid through the ruined Bridge of Dream, and the encounter with the stone men. There are many parallel details in that scene to the opening scene of the series, where Gared, Will and Ser Waymar Royce encounter the white walkers. My suspicion is that Haldon's role shares some elements with Will and Gared. Tyrion and Young Griff both share elements with Ser Waymar. But the lines aren't even that clear-cut: Ser Waymar and Haldon both seem to downplay the notion of a mysterious threat or curse in their respective unnaturally cold or foul foggy settings.

Haldon is the boat's resident expert on Garin, the shrouded lord who supposedly remains in the river and who put the curse on the area that causes greyscale to occur. I'm trying to get a feel for the way GRRM invents and recycles names, and I think Garin and Gared are related: Garin uses Gar + a syllable of Tywin, making the name appropriately symbolic for Tyrion's journey. Gared uses Gar + a syllable of Eddard, making the name appropriate for use in a foreshadowing way for a Stark story (or several Stark stories).

Figuring out the similarities between Haldon and Gared, the stone men and the white walkers, the Rhoyne and the Wall (or the haunted forest or the Frostfangs) might help us to get to some mysteries at the core of the series.

There are several references to people being "half" in the ADwD, Tyrion V chapter: Young Griff claims to be half a knight and Griff replies that he is half a boy. (This echoes Will's description of Ser Waymar in the AGoT prologue, where he alternately refers to him being a boy and a man of the Night's Watch. Gared also refers to a time when he was "half a boy" and saw men freeze to death.) Tyrion describes himself as "less than half of Haldon."

I think this stuff about half this and half that is also reflected in the clothes Tyrion sews for himself on board the boat - the clothing was provided by Ilyrio in a chest (like the fabrics and dragon eggs Ilyrio provided in a chest for Dany's wedding gifts). Griff / Connington (who is a father figure for Tyrion) tells Tyrion to make himself an outfit out of the dry clothes after Tyrion has been in the river - that was his voluntary swim in the river, not when he was knocked in by the stone man and rescued by Griff. Septa Lemore helps Tyrion sew the outfit although he does most of it himself. There are four panels to the outfit and (I believe) seven colors or patterns. So the hidden clues about all of the halves (including Haldon?) might become clearer if we can sort out the strange outfit Tyrion makes for himself with the help and support of Ilyrio, Griff and Lemore.

Edited by Seams

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19 hours ago, Tom Cruise said:

Haldon will betray young griff if he gets too powerful.  Since AC one of the main motivations of the measters has been either getting rid of dragon lords, or keeping them in check.  

I think it's pretty clear that not everyone in the Citadel is on the same page. Marwyn expresses this most overtly, but people like Haldon and Qyburn (and Oberyn for that matter) also have Citadel training without necessarily adhering to their orthodoxy. These maesters/former maesters/"half-maesters" may very well have very different ideas about magic, dragons, and Valyrians than their more mainstream counterparts.

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4 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

I think it's pretty clear that not everyone in the Citadel is on the same page. Marwyn expresses this most overtly, but people like Haldon and Qyburn (and Oberyn for that matter) also have Citadel training without necessarily adhering to their orthodoxy. These maesters/former maesters/"half-maesters" may very well have very different ideas about magic, dragons, and Valyrians than their more mainstream counterparts.

Ya. I think the "anti-magic" movement is only being put into place by the very top of the order.

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7 minutes ago, Foot_Of_The_King said:

Ya. I think the "anti-magic" movement is only being put into place by the very top of the order.

In a sense I agree with you. I think the official stance is "magic is dead, we don't know why, if your Lords' kids start having weird dreams give them this drug to help them sleep. Use lots." while the higher-ups know exactly why magic is dormant (not dead) and are actively making policy decisions to make sure it stays that way.

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On 5/3/2017 at 5:23 PM, LynnS said:

Walys Flowers was the maester at Winterfell who disappeared around the same time as Lyanna.  He is the son of an archmaester and a noble woman.... so half-a-maester.

That makes no sense whatsoever. 

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6 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

That makes no sense whatsoever. 

Sure it does, the math is just off. Since you inherit your maestery, he gets half from his dad. And since he then becomes a maester on his own he actually is Haldon Onepointfivemaester. But onepoint is offensive in rhoynish so he dropped it out of respect.

Boy, the stories about Jonny Fullmaester are almost completely unbelievable. Guys dad was a maester and his pa was also a maester. Both parents! Can you believe it?

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Still on the fence whether Haldon is just Haldon, or perhaps a lost character somewhere. I just can't stop thinking about Feast though with regards to the identities of people on the boat with Tyrion. In Feast we get to meet a Connington (a red one), there is the sandsnake's septa mother (and I think she's Lemore... and this migth actually be of great help when Arianne meets up with Aegon), and then we have maester stuff, including a hint of a sandsnake training to be maester. Feast has a lot of minor characters floating around that turn up somewhere else again, or whose identities aren't that hard to figure out (imo), except for Shadrich (imo).

Now notice that Haldon is especially "clean shaven" and then the hair is "knotted" and has some ascetic look about himself. Is Haldon a woman who trained at the Citadel, but discovered adn therefore unable to earn their chain? And I would also suggest this is a Dornish person (cyvasse adept), but of the Stonish type (no noteworthy olive tan). I don't think it's someone we actually know already or heard of before, but hir identity parallels that of Alleras.

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Just throwing in a two-cents. Some have speculated that he is Lord Hightower himself, the (weak) primary evidence being that no one has seen him leave Hightower in over a decade. But I'm more inclined to believe Hightowers are (along with the citadel that they helped establish and patronize) part of the anti-magic and dragon faction.

Though that could very well be the point of a Hightower joining their little river rafting community. Keeping a close eye and striking when most advantageous. There'd be no way of anyone knowing Daenerys would hatch dragons, though. Or would there... they were from Asshai... gah. I'm walking away from this!

Edited by Traverys

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On Invalid Date at 10:00 PM, John Suburbs said:

He wears his hair pulled back and knotted behind his head, like the high sparrow and sometimes Ned.

So... he is the high sparrow' s twin brother? Or Ned back from the dead?

 

I have no idea who Haldon is, but I like the Leyton Hightower's thing. Higtowers have been Tar loyalists for a long. 

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8 hours ago, Traverys said:

Just throwing in a two-cents. Some have speculated that he is Lord Hightower himself, the (weak) primary evidence being that no one has seen him leave Hightower in over a decade. But I'm more inclined to believe Hightowers are (along with the citadel that they helped establish and patronize) part of the anti-magic and dragon faction.

Though that could very well be the point of a Hightower joining their little river rafting community. Keeping a close eye and striking when most advantageous. There'd be no way of anyone knowing Daenerys would hatch dragons, though. Or would there... they were from Asshai... gah. I'm walking away from this!

Other evidence would be that he and his daughter's ages match up with hh and septa lemore, they are clean and pious like the Hightower's, there's the comment about the golden company having friends in the reach, and the boat being named the shy maid compared to mad maid, his daughters nickname

to me this is more evidence than all other theories except hh=hh

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3 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

Other evidence would be that he and his daughter's ages match up with hh and septa lemore, they are clean and pious like the Hightower's, there's the comment about the golden company having friends in the reach, and the boat being named the shy maid compared to mad maid, his daughters nickname

to me this is more evidence than all other theories except hh=hh

Interesting stuff. I remember reading about the Mad Maid but never thought much of it. I've always been partial to the theory that Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne. The lack of details regarding her (Lemore's) appearance is frustrating. But Ser Connington calls her Lady Lemore more than once...

Edited by Traverys

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5 hours ago, Traverys said:

Interesting stuff. I remember reading about the Mad Maid but never thought much of it. I've always been partial to the theory that Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne. The lack of details regarding her (Lemore's) appearance is frustrating. But Ser Connington calls her Lady Lemore more than once...

Ashara is always in the convo so I'm glad you brought her up but to me she makes a lot more sense as quaithe. 

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17 minutes ago, Aegon VII said:

Ashara is always in the convo so I'm glad you brought her up but to me she makes a lot more sense as quaithe. 

Overall, I'd be disappointed if she never appears as anything or anyone. She's been mentioned in several POV chapters. I've honestly never been that curious about Quaithe's identity until now. I'll have to search around threads here to catch up.

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16 hours ago, Tygett Blackwood said:

So... he is the high sparrow' s twin brother? Or Ned back from the dead?

 

I have no idea who Haldon is, but I like the Leyton Hightower's thing. Higtowers have been Tar loyalists for a long. 

Nope, just making an observation.

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16 hours ago, Tygett Blackwood said:

So... he is the high sparrow' s twin brother? Or Ned back from the dead?

 

I have no idea who Haldon is, but I like the Leyton Hightower's thing. Higtowers have been Tar loyalists for a long. 

Supposedly Targaryen loyalists. There's enough circumstantial evidence to at least call into question how true that is. If you believe Maester Marwyn's statement about the Citadel's conspiracy against dragons and magic, you have to wonder about the Hightowers since they are the founders and patrons of the Citadel.

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I keep wondering if he could be that missing Darry cousin. Could have been studying at the Citadel when Varys contacted him. If you were trying to give the illusion that Aegon is Rhaegar's son having a Darry with him would look good. Hard to find a bigger Targaryen supporter than the Darry's.

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