Khal drogo marrying Dany, why?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

10 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Edit: IDK what the fuck some other people are talking about Dany being beautiful.

I know, right? The same people probably think Tyrion Lannister is short, gods know why. It's not as it's his/her defining characteristics, brought up over and over and over and over again at the every opportunity.

[Jasemina]

11 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Considering the fact that he did have sex with Dany and simply watched the women of his khalasar dance, your answer is right in front of you. A much older man wedding and bedding a young girl is not at all uncommon in the books, so I'm surprised that you're shocked by it.

We repeatedly get descriptions of Dany that say that she is beautiful. Everywhere she goes, she is called beautiful and we really have no choice but to assume that she is a very beautiful girl.

 

 

i agree with that and would like to add, not  only in books but in real life what we call as child brides atm is not so uncommon...even in history in most countries men would choose a very young lady to marry, preferably the ones that just hit puberty...so drogo being attracted to her and wanting her as his wife, might sounds weird and sounds like a pedophile in current world but when you look from the middle age like fantay book it might not necessarily be awkward 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

So he wanted a young pretty girl to bang and fulfill prophecy is that it?

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

I know, right? The same people probably think Tyrion Lannister is short, gods know why. It's not as it's his/her defining characteristics, brought up over and over and over and over again at the every opportunity.

I meant in the context of Drogo marrying her. Dany's beauty alone does not explain why Drogo wanted to marry her in the exact same way that Lyanna's beauty alone does not explain why Rhaegar ran off with her. Dany and Lyanna were both children. Generally speaking, in modern times and throughout history, and in the fictional history of ASOIAF, men prefer women who are a bit older.

It is quite clear that both of these men were trying to have prophecy-fulfilling babies.

1 hour ago, Jasemina said:

i agree with that and would like to add, not  only in books but in real life what we call as child brides atm is not so uncommon...even in history in most countries men would choose a very young lady to marry, preferably the ones that just hit puberty...so drogo being attracted to her and wanting her as his wife, might sounds weird and sounds like a pedophile in current world but when you look from the middle age like fantay book it might not necessarily be awkward 

This is just false. And the characters in asoiaf do not agree with you.

SPOILER from Arianne TWOW chapter:

Spoiler

Arianne was on her way back to her own chamber when she heard muffled laughter from the adjoining room. She paused and listened for a moment, then pushed the door open to find Elia Sand curled up in a window seat, kissing Feathers. When Feathers saw the princess standing there, he jumped to his feet and began to stammer. Both of them still had their clothes on. Arianne took some small comfort in that as she sent Feathers on his way with a sharp look and a “Go”.   Then she turned to Elia.  “He is twice your age. A serving man. He cleans up birdshit for the maester. Elia, what were you thinking?”

“We were only kissing. I’m not going to marry him.”  Elia crossed her arms defiantly beneath her breasts. “You think I never kissed a boy before?”

“Feathers is a man.  A serving man, but still a man. It did not escape the princess that Elia was the same age she had been when she gave her maidenhead to Daemon Sand.  “I am not your mother. Kiss all the boys you want when we return to Dorne.

Elia is the same age as Lyanna at the Harrenhal tourney and Dany at her wedding, and is a literary parallel to both those characters, her nickname being "Lady Lance", a moniker that would have well suited Lyanna, aka the KotLT.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Illyrio doesn't pay for everything behind the scenes in the same way that bloodraven doesn't warg everything behind the scenes, In fact, I am surprised you didn't posit that bloodraven/CTOF  skinchanged drogo to fall in love with dany or that the dosh khaleen were somehow remnants of the CTOF population in essos or something else crackpotty. 
Also, Dany was a physically mature woman at 13, and until very recently in history, as soon as a woman menstruated, she was ready for marriage 

Jorah and Viserys, and presumably Illyrio and Varys, knew about the "mummer's show of a prophecy" ahead of time. How is this possible? Well, the obvious and most likely answer is that Illyrio somehow bribed them. And it is clear that Drogo was not in on this plan and believed the prophecy was real, from when he whispered in Dany's ear afterward.

11 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

What I failed to realize is that drogo doesn't seems to consider marriage an alliance pact like westerosi people do. He just wanted a woman for himself, but what I also fail to realize is why Dany? There must be a thousand other women just as hot or hotter than her, more mature, more fierce, more sexy etc. It's not just for her features I think. I agree with @40 Thousand Skeletons he wants something with her blood. For some reason the fact she's a targ and have king's blood from another continent will make a super baby with Khal drogo now... Where he learned that I'll never understand.

Well, the answer, which I briefly alluded to, is sort of staring us in the face. Drogo's belief that he can make a super baby with Dany is directly tied to his core religious belief, and the core religious belief of all Dothraki, the TSWMTW prophecy. It you were devoutly religious and had a question about religious prophecy, who would you ask? Well you would ask a priest of course. And in the Dothraki world, the dosh khaleen are their priests, the highest authority on religious matters. So barring some random explanation out of left field, we should assume that the dosh khaleen told Drogo to seek a silver-haired, purple-eyed Valyrian wife. And since we know for a fact that the "mummer's show of a prophecy" was a mummer's show, it would make a lot of sense if Illyrio actually bribed them to tell Drogo to seek out a Valyrian bride in the first place, having Dany in his possession. 

[Jasemina]

1 hour ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

 

This is just false. And the characters in asoiaf do not agree with you.

well history does

http://www.medievalfayre.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&

 

Quote

Parents arranged their children's marriages based on monetary worth. Children were married at a young age; girls were as young as 12, and boys as young as 17. The family of the girl gives a dowry, or donation, to the boy she is to marry. The dowry goes with her at the time of the marriage and is controlled by the boy.

 

[Damon_Tor]

1 hour ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Jorah and Viserys, and presumably Illyrio and Varys, knew about the "mummer's show of a prophecy" ahead of time.

Well sure. They don't believe in prophecy. Any prophecy would be a mummer's show, whether they knew it was paid for or not. They called it this to show their skepticism, not to imply that they were in on it in some way.

[Dorian Martell's son]

3 hours ago, cgrav said:

Well the quote above pretty clearly shows that the Crones' prophetic announcement was planned and communicated to Jorah and Viserys ahead of time. At the very least it seems meant to provide Drogo with some reason to invade Westeros. Gold won't get the Dothraki there, but superstition (and anger) might. 

If Illyrio didn't arrange that, then who did? How did they have any idea that was going to happen?

first of all, Drogo married Dany before any prophecy from the old horse ladies.  He only decided to invade westeros after the attempt on Dany's life. Viserys assumed he would get an army, but Illyrio had to explain that it doesn't always work out like that. That is when Viserys got a little butthurt and followed Dany into central essos instead of waiting a year at Illyrio's manse. The arrangement that Fatty McFatterton made was that He would provide Drogo with a bride and then Drogo would at a later date gift some screamers. 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

28 minutes ago, Jasemina said:

well history does

http://www.medievalfayre.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&

LOL, yeah the Great Northern Medieval Fayre is totally an authority on historical matters . Yes, girls could be married off as soon as they hit puberty, but the modern consensus of historians (I am not one admittedly) is that this was not the norm in medieval/Renaissance Europe (the closest era/culture to asoiaf in real life). The average marriage age of women rose steadily as Christianity spread and evolved, and by the 1600's it was 23.

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Jorah and Viserys, and presumably Illyrio and Varys, knew about the "mummer's show of a prophecy" ahead of time. How is this possible? Well, the obvious and most likely answer is that Illyrio somehow bribed them. And it is clear that Drogo was not in on this plan and believed the prophecy was real, from when he whispered in Dany's ear afterward.

Not at all. There was no mention of prophecy until they got to the city of old horse ladies. Fatty and no junk had a plan, Jorah was there to earn a pardon. It was literally spelled out in the book. No tinfoil theories needed 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

43 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

Well sure. They don't believe in prophecy. Any prophecy would be a mummer's show, whether they knew it was paid for or not. They called it this to show their skepticism, not to imply that they were in on it in some way.

No, no, no. Sorry, but you are just incorrect my friend.  

If they called it a mummer's show after it happened, then you would be right. But Viserys called it a mummer's show before it even happened. They knew about a purportedly spontaneous prophecy ahead of time. quote:

Quote

"The princess must be presented to the dosh khaleen …"

"The crones, yes," her brother interrupted, "and there's to be some mummer's show of a prophecy for the whelp in her belly, you told me.

The mummer's show is clearly, without a doubt, to fool Drogo, and at a minimum Jorah and Viserys were in on the plan.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

14 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Not at all. There was no mention of prophecy until they got to the city of old horse ladies. Fatty and no junk had a plan, Jorah was there to earn a pardon. It was literally spelled out in the book. No tinfoil theories needed 

seriously, WTF are you talking about? This is not tinfoil AT ALL. This is super straightforward stuff here.

[cgrav]

26 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

first of all, Drogo married Dany before any prophecy from the old horse ladies.  He only decided to invade westeros after the attempt on Dany's life. Viserys assumed he would get an army, but Illyrio had to explain that it doesn't always work out like that. That is when Viserys got a little butthurt and followed Dany into central essos instead of waiting a year at Illyrio's manse. The arrangement that Fatty McFatterton made was that He would provide Drogo with a bride and then Drogo would at a later date gift some screamers. 

so how do you interpret the quote? "mummer's show of a prophecy for the whelp in her belly"... what is Viserys talking about, if he doesn't already know about the prophecy? 
 

[Damon_Tor]

10 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

No, no, no. Sorry, but you are just incorrect my friend.  

If they called it a mummer's show after it happened, then you would be right. But Viserys called it a mummer's show before it even happened. They knew about a purportedly spontaneous prophecy ahead of time. quote:

The mummer's show is clearly, without a doubt, to fool Drogo, and at a minimum Jorah and Viserys were in on the plan.

I was under the impression that everyone knew the Dosh Khaleen were going to make a prophecy, Drogo and everyone. As readers we were limited to what our PoV characters could understand being said, which is why the only people we hear talk about it are Jorah and Viserys.

[cgrav]

35 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

I was under the impression that everyone knew the Dosh Khaleen were going to make a prophecy, Drogo and everyone. As readers we were limited to what our PoV characters could understand being said, which is why the only people we hear talk about it are Jorah and Viserys.

So what would be the significance be if everybody knew about it? Is it like, they give a prophecy to every Khaleesi after eating the horse heart, and Dany's just happened to be the big one? That would be a sensible explanation, actually.

Although, Viserys and Jorah knew that the prophecy would relate to specifically Dany's expected child.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

37 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

I was under the impression that everyone knew the Dosh Khaleen were going to make a prophecy, Drogo and everyone. As readers we were limited to what our PoV characters could understand being said, which is why the only people we hear talk about it are Jorah and Viserys.

Aaaah, I see where you are getting confused.

Everyone knew that there would be a ceremony, where Dany would eat a horses heart. And then after the heart eating, there is a traditional part of the ceremony where the dosh khaleen peer into the future:

Quote

Khal Drogo laid his hand on Dany’s arm. She could feel the tension in his fingers. Even a khal as mighty as Drogo could know fear when the dosh khaleen peered into smoke of the future. At her back, her handmaids fluttered anxiously.

Finally the crone opened her eye and lifted her arms. “I have seen his face, and heard the thunder of his hooves,” she proclaimed in a thin, wavery voice.

“The thunder of his hooves!” the others chorused.

“As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name.” The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. “The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world.”

The surprise for Drogo and everyone else (except Jorah and Viserys and the presumably bribed dosh khaleen) was that Drogo's son was foretold to be TSWMTW, who is basically the Dothraki version of Azor Ahai reborn.

So yes, everyone knew there would be some sort of prophetic telling, but they didn't know that the equivalent of the second coming of Jesus was going to be foretold. They probably just expected the dosh khaleen to say Dany's son would be a male and strong and a fierce warrior blah blah blah. The clear implication is that Jorah and Viserys did know this was coming and that Drogo did not.

It is remotely possible that Viserys was simply bashing their religion, but it is much more likely that GRRM is giving us a giant glaring hint about the plot. After all, if you are Illyrio/Varys, and you want Drogo to conquer Westeros, there is pretty much no better plan than:

1) capture Dany (Illyrio did so in quite a friendly way)

2) bribe the dosh khaleen to tell Drogo he needs a Valyrian wife

3) have your Dothraki ambassador Jorah spread the word about this Valyrian girl you conveniently happen to have in Pentos, maybe make Drogo a formal offer

4) sell Dany to Drogo

5) bribe the dosh khaleen to predict that Dany's son will fulfill the TSWMTW prophecy

6) stage a fake assassination attempt on Dany's life ordered by Robert

7) profit

[Damon_Tor]

27 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

So yes, everyone knew there would be some sort of prophetic telling, but they didn't know that the equivalent of the second coming of Jesus was going to be foretold. They probably just expected the dosh khaleen to say Dany's son would be a male and strong and a fierce warrior blah blah blah. The clear implication is that Jorah and Viserys did know this was coming and that Drogo did not.

I'm just not getting that from the text. There's no reason to believe that Viserys knew the content of the prophecy, just that there would be one, and that he thought it was bullshit. It's like he's that douche uncle rolling his eyes when you take the kids to see Santa Claus.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Illyrio speaks Dothraki, and when he attends the wedding feast in Daenerys II, Game 1, Illyrio demonstrates an extensive knowledge of Dothraki customs. Perhaps Illyrio understood that the real gift to Drogo was not a Targaryen bride, but a dragonlord heir, the stallion who mounts the world.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

46 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

I'm just not getting that from the text. There's no reason to believe that Viserys knew the content of the prophecy, just that there would be one, and that he thought it was bullshit. It's like he's that douche uncle rolling his eyes when you take the kids to see Santa Claus.

I don't know what to tell you. It is quite clearly a big hint from GRRM that conspiracies are afoot. This is how he writes.

Viserys' words imply that he was told it would be a mummer's show, and that the crones would proclaim Dany's "whelp" to be TSWMTW. If the prophecy was not part of the plan to make Drogo head to Westeros, there is no reason to even tell Viserys about it. He doesn't give a shit about Dothraki culture. He even says, "What is that to me?" in contempt of their religious beliefs.

Think about it from another angle. Isn't it just a spectacular coincidence and super great for Illyrio that Dany's son was foretold to be TSWMTW? Boy oh boy, how lucky he his that the dosh khaleen didn't ruin all their plans... specifically "years" of planning. You know... Illyrio and Varys were totally willing to gamble the future of Westeros on what some random one-eyed old Dothraki widow foretold about Dany's child. Gosh darn, if only they had someone like Jorah working for them and living among the Dothraki for years establishing diplomatic ties, and if only they had something to bribe the dosh khaleen with... but for that Illyrio would need to be some sort of wealthy merchant who trades in rare goods... aah well...  

[Hodor the Articulate]

Is everything going to be "because prophecy" now? Dany had prestige. It's that simple.