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Let's talk about Jaime...

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22 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

My apologies; would love to see what you mean because beyond what I have already said I am a little clueless

He said he wasn't angry, he said nothing about the wildfire (cersei sent him away and used his infos for hurting innocent people), no word about his uncle. After what he did in Riverland for edmure he sacked a castle (his idea) and killed an old woman in a private meeting (why?). He talked to Randyll and said Olenna is full of revenge (really? I can't imagine why) and so it's ok betraying her. And so on ... no hints of doubts , no questions. He was just happy with her and scared because they're not in a good situation. Have you seen any sign of doubts? 

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1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said:

think about what the Starks and Danny might think.... "he is pretending to be a friend but has a plan B for when we figure out (rightly or wrongly) he is a foe???"

What your saying makes no sense. They just risked everything and lost a dragon tryiing to get the Lannister forces on thier side. Cersei double cross's them, But jamie still shows up to honor the commitment, tell them Cersei's plans, and brings some forces with him, and you think they would kill him? Why on earth would they do that? Have you not watched the last two episodes?

Are you forgetting all they have to do to verify Jamie's story is go see Bran?

 

ludicrous. 

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2 hours ago, Padrino said:

Agreed.  We've already seen that although he was outmatched, and then some, against Dany, Drogon and the Dothraki, he kept his head and did as well as anyone could under the circumstances, to the point of suicidally charging the commander of the enemy forces.  No General in history could have won that battle, but he acquitted himself well.

Watch Jamie's role end up being the same thing, and he charges the NK's dragon, takes him out, dies in the process. 

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Tyrion's look at the end of the episode made me think he's up to something, or at least starting to rethink the whole Team Dany thing. I think if he stays true to Dany there's a chance he'll vouch for Jaime and they'll accept him into the gang. Tyrion of all people would understand how serious it is for him to abandon Cersei and would definitely trust him. Actually, maybe seeing Jaime could also help him silence his doubts, if there are any. 

I think Brienne will play a part in it, too. She'll definitely talk to Sansa, at least. Can't wait for her to see him arrive in WF btw.

And about Bran, I pretty much think he gives 0 fucks about Jaime being the one who pushed him. He already made it pretty clear he's not really Bran anymore, so yeah. He might even be thankful or something lol 

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11 minutes ago, Ser Lady Stark Martell said:

Tyrion's look at the end of the episode made me think he's up to something, or at least starting to rethink the whole Team Dany thing. I think if he stays true to Dany there's a chance he'll vouch for Jaime and they'll accept him into the gang. Tyrion of all people would understand how serious it is for him to abandon Cersei and would definitely trust him. Actually, maybe seeing Jaime could also help him silence his doubts, if there are any. 

I think Brienne will play a part in it, too. She'll definitely talk to Sansa, at least. Can't wait for her to see him arrive in WF btw.

And about Bran, I pretty much think he gives 0 fucks about Jaime being the one who pushed him. He already made it pretty clear he's not really Bran anymore, so yeah. He might even be thankful or something lol 

I think you are correct about Bran, he realizes that the fall was part of his journey to becoming the 3 eyed Raven.  

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6 hours ago, Error-504 said:

What your saying makes no sense. They just risked everything and lost a dragon tryiing to get the Lannister forces on thier side. Cersei double cross's them, But jamie still shows up to honor the commitment, tell them Cersei's plans, and brings some forces with him, and you think they would kill him? Why on earth would they do that? Have you not watched the last two episodes?

Are you forgetting all they have to do to verify Jamie's story is go see Bran?

 

ludicrous. 

Oh, I do believe Jaime is sincere, I am wondering whether the others will think so.  Bran, fair point but I don't think that Bran knows absolutely everything and everyone's motivation.  Yes, he is overloaded with a ton of information but for instance when he talks with Sam, Sam knows about Lyanna and Rhaegar's wedding whereas Bran appears not to.  In fact I think it would be a bit too "convenient" is all anyone would need to do to verify any fact or theory even is ask Bran.

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7 hours ago, Cridefea said:

He said he wasn't angry, he said nothing about the wildfire (cersei sent him away and used his infos for hurting innocent people), no word about his uncle. After what he did in Riverland for edmure he sacked a castle (his idea) and killed an old woman in a private meeting (why?). He talked to Randyll and said Olenna is full of revenge (really? I can't imagine why) and so it's ok betraying her. And so on ... no hints of doubts , no questions. He was just happy with her and scared because they're not in a good situation. Have you seen any sign of doubts? 

You are right on the facts and that really frustrated me.  This could just be my interpretation but I felt on various scenes that his words were saying one thing and his facial expression another.  I didn't believe him totally when he said he wasn't angry especially when she asked him if he was scared and he replied "should I be?"  I don't think that is the reaction of someone who is not even questioning you at all.

As for the Riverlands there are various threads on the previous season and people were debating at great length whether he was making himself sound worse than he is to Edmure because Edmure would not believe anything else, so he played the Kingslayer.  Now, of course I may not be right here.

I have to admit I would have liked him better if he had cut ties with Cersei sooner, basically at the end of the last series because yes he seems to ignore the blowing up of the Sept and then he carries on sleeping with her (which drove me nuts).  It seemed such a step backward after having changed for the better when Brienne was around.  I personally would have written him with more doubts, or able to externalise those doubts more but I still maintain that this could still be consistent with the behaviour of someone who is being control psychologically at a very deep level and has been all his life.  Let's hope this has now changed for good though :)

 

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8 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

I may have missed...but free Edmure from whom. Aren't the Frey's dead?  Is Edmure in Riverunn?  I just had a strong amnesia about this...

 

8 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Funnily enough, in the show we cannot be sure of his fate, although there was talk of bringing him wife and kid to Casterley...

 

7 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

I thought he was a Lannister hostage somewhere at Casterly Rock.  Unless the unsullied freed him. Isn't that the deal Jaime made with him?

Jaime did promise to send him to Casterly Rock to live out his days as a noble hostage, but he apparently broke that promise. The next we hear is Walder Frey saying Edmure has been returned to his cell. So, he's not a Lannister hostage, he's a Frey prisoner. Probably under the Twins, although Riverrun isn't completely impossible.

Either way, he's probably still rotting down there. Surely Walder's underage widow and her dozens of daughters-in-law and other surviving relatives have much bigger problems to worry about fighting over the successions to two major castles and the Lord Paramountship, figuring out what each of those dead cousins did and who can take over their jobs, etc. Taking a survey of the prisons and deciding on who to pardon or ransom or whatever is probably way down the list.

In the books, things are different. We see Jaime send Edmure to Casterly Rock under a quadruple strength guard. We later see Jaime telling the Blackwoods that he's sending Roslin to the West to live with Edmure as soon as the baby is born. Either Edmure is already there, or at least Jaime has every reason to believe he's going to make it there soon.

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3 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

You are right on the facts and that really frustrated me.  This could just be my interpretation but I felt on various scenes that his words were saying one thing and his facial expression another.  I didn't believe him totally when he said he wasn't angry especially when she asked him if he was scared and he replied "should I be?"  I don't think that is the reaction of someone who is not even questioning you at all.

As for the Riverlands there are various threads on the previous season and people were debating at great length whether he was making himself sound worse than he is to Edmure because Edmure would not believe anything else, so he played the Kingslayer.  Now, of course I may not be right here.

I have to admit I would have liked him better if he had cut ties with Cersei sooner, basically at the end of the last series because yes he seems to ignore the blowing up of the Sept and then he carries on sleeping with her (which drove me nuts).  It seemed such a step backward after having changed for the better when Brienne was around.  I personally would have written him with more doubts, or able to externalise those doubts more but I still maintain that this could still be consistent with the behaviour of someone who is being control psychologically at a very deep level and has been all his life.  Let's hope this has now changed for good though :)

 

I think so. I'm not the best at reading people but look at the scene when Gregor blocks his way and he asks if she'll have him killed. To me he almost looks like he's on the verge of tears, like he can't believe she'd do something like that even as a empty threat or bluff, not after everything he's done for her.

As for the north. He hasn't really done anything any other lord or knight wouldn't have done. He led part of his fathers forces during the war. But that was simply soldiering that was expected of him and is a natural part of society.
He's the kingslayer but most people seem not to care at this point other than using it as an insult. The northern lords looks like weathervanes to me. If Jon and Dany says he is with them he is. Also show Dany does seem to have a better grasp of what kind of man the mad king was. At the pit se didn't stare at him with burning hatred. I don't think she even noticed him.

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32 minutes ago, Akal Colzet said:

 At the pit se didn't stare at him with burning hatred. I don't think she even noticed him.

She did, they had a small interaction:
Dany: I didn't believe it until I saw them. I saw them all.
Jamie: How many?
Dany: A hundred thousand, at least.
Jamie: :o

As for not holding a grudge, I agree. Dany won't hold a grudge against Jamie for killing her father. By this stage, she knows how cruel and evil he was, and that Jamie killed him in an effort to save Kings Landing.
I don't think she will hold a grudge against him for trying to kill her in the loot train battle either, just as he won't hold a grudge against her for almost incinerating him: that was war, and nothing personal.



 

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17 hours ago, LokisRaider said:

That'd be interesting. I think this would have been a great reason to keep Tarly alive. If he was never captured and attended the Dragon Pit meeting he is a character that has already been established and known to be honorable. He finds out why Jamie left KL and he rides North with his army and they meet up because it was the right thing to do. Or something along those lines.

When they hired an established actor to play Dickon Tarly I had envisioned a more significant role for the character like the one you described. Instead poor Tom Hopper got 3 episodes, 7 lines, was the butt of one of Bronn's multitude of 'dick' jokes, and oh yeah, he got incinerated. What a waste.

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12 hours ago, Ser Lady Stark Martell said:

Tyrion's look at the end of the episode made me think he's up to something, or at least starting to rethink the whole Team Dany thing. I think if he stays true to Dany there's a chance he'll vouch for Jaime and they'll accept him into the gang. Tyrion of all people would understand how serious it is for him to abandon Cersei and would definitely trust him. Actually, maybe seeing Jaime could also help him silence his doubts, if there are any.

I read Tyrion's look differently. Seems to me he's in love with Dany and that look was simply his heart breaking.

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23 minutes ago, Super Mario said:

When they hired an established actor to play Dickon Tarly I had envisioned a more significant role for the character like the one you described. Instead poor Tom Hopper got 3 episodes, 7 lines, was the butt of one of Bronn's multitude of 'dick' jokes, and oh yeah, he got incinerated. What a waste.

Right? I thought the same thing about Dickon. But now that we've seen the season in full it just is one of the many things that do not make sense but could have with a few simple tweaks here and there.

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17 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

I'm now thinking Jaime's information will be useless because Bran should already know the truth, or maybe Bran just confirms what Jaime tells them about Cersei's plan and Euron.  I think the thing that will get the Starks to forgive Jaime will be in part because of Brienne, and also because Jaime will stop and free Edmure and bring him with him.  

Would show-only viewers even remember Edmure Tully two years down the line? 

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8 minutes ago, S. OF HOUSE STARK said:

Would show-only viewers even remember Edmure Tully two years down the line? 

Sure, just throw his 3 scenes from the entire series in the (previously on game of thrones) intro.  

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8 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Sure, just throw his 3 scenes from the entire series in the (previously on game of thrones) intro.  

Idk, I didn't give a shit about show!Edmure (or book Edmure, really) the first time around so I can't imagine anyone caring about him now. 

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1 hour ago, S. OF HOUSE STARK said:

Idk, I didn't give a shit about show!Edmure (or book Edmure, really) the first time around so I can't imagine anyone caring about him now. 

You don't think the Stark girls would care about their mother's brother?  It could play well with them that Jaime freed him as a token of his good faith.  Audience though, the last time they saw him was season 6 with Jaime at the Riverlands a few episodes before Arya cuts Walder Frey's throat and serves him Frey Pies.  

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9 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Oh, I do believe Jaime is sincere, I am wondering whether the others will think so.  Bran, fair point but I don't think that Bran knows absolutely everything and everyone's motivation.  Yes, he is overloaded with a ton of information but for instance when he talks with Sam, Sam knows about Lyanna and Rhaegar's wedding whereas Bran appears not to.  In fact I think it would be a bit too "convenient" is all anyone would need to do to verify any fact or theory even is ask Bran.

I'm not saying Bran Knows everything, but he does have access to everything, That is how it works. So, he could go back, re-watch the scene where Jamie left, and even go as far as to watch when and why Jamie became the Kingslayer. Those two things alone with give him a pretty accurate assessment of his motivations (and I am leaving out the part where he sent Brienne to go find the Stark Sisters). All of these are far more redeeming qualities than Theon, whom they have already forgiven. 

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3 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

I'm not saying Bran Knows everything, but he does have access to everything, That is how it works. So, he could go back, re-watch the scene where Jamie left, and even go as far as to watch when and why Jamie became the Kingslayer. Those two things alone with give him a pretty accurate assessment of his motivations (and I am leaving out the part where he sent Brienne to go find the Stark Sisters). All of these are far more redeeming qualities than Theon, whom they have already forgiven. 

I am with you in that Jaime will be spared but not without some tensions and a lot of suspicion beforehand.  Maybe I am not understanding Bran's powers completely.  I did think that he gets flashes of tons of stuff and that he might be able to look into something specific but I guess I was hoping he didn't have the whole truth about everything available at will, more than anything because I find that plot device a bit too simple and convenient but it is very likely that I have missed something here.

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10 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

You are right on the facts and that really frustrated me.  This could just be my interpretation but I felt on various scenes that his words were saying one thing and his facial expression another.  I didn't believe him totally when he said he wasn't angry especially when she asked him if he was scared and he replied "should I be?"  I don't think that is the reaction of someone who is not even questioning you at all.

As for the Riverlands there are various threads on the previous season and people were debating at great length whether he was making himself sound worse than he is to Edmure because Edmure would not believe anything else, so he played the Kingslayer.  Now, of course I may not be right here.

I have to admit I would have liked him better if he had cut ties with Cersei sooner, basically at the end of the last series because yes he seems to ignore the blowing up of the Sept and then he carries on sleeping with her (which drove me nuts).  It seemed such a step backward after having changed for the better when Brienne was around.  I personally would have written him with more doubts, or able to externalise those doubts more but I still maintain that this could still be consistent with the behaviour of someone who is being control psychologically at a very deep level and has been all his life.  Let's hope this has now changed for good though :)

 

I agree her. I think he was playing the kinglsayer a bit.

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